Talk:Homura Akemi/Archive 2

Rewrite reception?
Should I re-write the reception or not? I mean, how does it look? Good or bad? If it's bad then I think I might re-write it or trim it a little bit. Also, the merchandise and promotion section, should I remove it? And what else should I do to the article to make it look good and then nominate it? Expand the development section and?

I'm very sorry guys, I keep saying that I'll work on this article and turn it into a Good Article but I barely did anything, I was kind of busy in real life... NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 17:43, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Production
What do you guys think of it? Poor grammar I know. It's still incomplete I'll try to expand it later though I'm having trouble expanding the lead. Can you guys help? Also, please give me your opinion on the production section. I'm planning on re-writing the the entire article including the reception section later. NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 01:21, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Opinion
How am I doing so far? Is the article good or bad? What does it need for improvement? And what about the grammar? I know the grammar is poor but please tell me your opinion about it. Also if possible, can I have your opinion about each sections? What section is good and what section is bad? I'm planning to transform this article to GA status this year. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thank you! NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 21:34, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Rewriting this article
I'm planning on cleaning and expanding this article after I nominate Kyoko Sakura to GA status. Looking through the mess development section, it needs an entire re-write, while the appearances section needs some clarifications. Reception section also needs some clean-up and expansion. NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 15:14, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Started working on this article. Leaving this here to see what section I need to work on.

Progress

 * Lede: Needs a re-write. ❌
 * Creation and development: Needs improvement. ❌
 * Design: In need of expansion. ❌
 * Voice actresses: Needs expansion and clean-up. - currently working on.
 * Characteristics: The article needs this. ❌
 * Appearances
 * Puella Magi Madoka Magica: Needs a complete re-write and clarifications. ❌
 * Magia Record: Will create one soon.
 * Other appearances: In need of expansion and clean-up. ❌
 * Cultural impact
 * Popularity: Needs a re-write. ✅
 * Critical response: Re-write and expansion. ✅
 * Merchandise: Expansion. ✅
 * Analysis: Found many analysis about Homura's character. Will create soon.

Comments
(To NotEnglishSpeaker) Hello! I'm a big Homura fan so I just thought of leaving some suggestion on how this article needs to be fixed/improved. So far, the article looks good, but it needs improvement especially the "Creation and development" section since it doesn't say much about Homura. The section does not explain anything about Homura's creation and development, the first paragraph is good since it shows the contrast between Homura and Madoka and the second paragraph is also fine, though I would suggest some rewording on the first line about Homura being a "veteran aside from Mami Tomoe" and all that. Now comes the important part, after these two paragraph, you're mostly talking about her role in Rebellion, you didn't write much about her role in the 2011 series so I highly suggest you to expand it first, there are many interviews/sources/orwhateveryoucallit with the creators of the series so I have no doubt that such interviews/sources can be found. Now for the last two paragraphs, I would again suggest some rewording and also maybe some expansion, if you can find sources about her role in Rebellion. Now comes the design, yeah, it looks like you're gonna work on it so no comments. As for the voice actresses, again, it needs rewording and expansion as you didn't write anything about Saito's opinion on the 3rd film. I read somewhere that she had recorded two takes for the last 30 minutes of the film because of how dark Homura's character became. It's maybe on the official guidebook or material book? I don't really remember.

"Appearances" is unbelievably bad. In "Puella Magi Madoka Magica", you could trim the first two paragraph a bit, and expand the last paragraph as it only explains the ending of the film. You need to write about Homura's role in details. For the "Other appearances", again, it doesn't explain what role Homura has in the manga's so I suggest you to write something, what kind of role she had? The video games looks fine, but as far as I know, Homura has actually appeared in numerous cross-over video games, you could search it up in Japanese or something. I don't really have much to say about the "Cultural impact" section, it looks good, but maybe the "Merchandise" section could use some work. Homura appeared in many advertisements not related to the Madoka series. Again, you could use some Japanese sources for this one. For the "critical reception", most of the reviews are quotations, can't you write on your own words if you could? Now comes the most important thing, an "Analysis" section. Since some scholars have analyzed Homura's character, especially her mental state and wish, you could write about them. You wrote that you "Found many analysis about Homura's character" and given the popularity of such interpretations/and analysis of the show and the characters conflict in general, I have no doubt that you can find the sources.

I hope this helps. Again, I don't have all the information needed for the character, but this is what I believe needs to be done if you really want the article to achieve the "Good status". Good luck! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.129.90.236 (talk) 19:38, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Btw, I heard that Homura plays an importat role in the Magia record game, maybe you should write something about it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.129.90.236 (talk) 19:39, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the feedback. Unfortunately, I have been kind of busy in real life, and also I'm not really feeling very well which is why I stopped working on both Homura and Kyoko Sakura's article. But yeah, Homura's article needs a rewrite and expansion, I agree. The problem is, her article is very huge which is why I'm having a hard time completing it. Kyoko's article, on the other hand, was much easier for me to write since it's not that big so I'm thinking first to nominate her to GAN and then get back to Homura's article. I strong agree with you on the "Creation" section though, I will re-write it lastly after I finish writing the other sections. I'm currently working on appearances section. As for the analysis section, I don't really think I can create one since my English isn't that good as you noticed that I mostly quote the reviewers but if you help me with it then I might be able to create one. If you wanna help, create an account and then leave a message here or on my talk page.


 * Thanks for checking this article, I really appreciate it. NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 18:19, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Ahh that explains everything. Well, if you feel it's that hard because of its large bytes then why don't you make the article smaller like Kyoko's? Remove the "unnecessary" details (if there's any) and the trivia's and just focus on the most important thing like the "Creation and development" section. No need to add everything about the character, right? Once you feel you're ready to expand Homura's article and want to add every information about her then do it. But for now, I say just focus on "Creation and development" section - I'll see if I can create an "Analysis" section for Homura. I don't think I should create an account just for this, you're the one who will nominate the article so there's no need for me to create an account. And I'm sure I even won't be that active on Wikipedia. I just came to this article after rewatching the series for the second time and saw how hard you're trying to make it to "Good article" so I thought of giving some suggestions on how to improve it. Anyways, good luck with the Madoka character's article! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.231.127.111 (talk) 20:12, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * In order to have GA status, we must include all the information about the character so no, I can't make Homura's article smaller like Kyoko's since not much is said about Kyoko while Homura is the center of the Madoka Magica series, which is why she has the most information (the creators, reviewers and scholars mostly talk about her) along with Madoka and maybe Sayaka. And since we should include all the information, I'm gonna work on Kyoko's article first since I didn't write anything about Magia Record in her article. As I stated earlier, Kyoko's article is much easier to write, so after I'm done with it and nominate to Good article status, I'll get back to Homura's article. Alright, if you can create an analysis section then feel free to do it but you must only include reliable sources, not original research, please. NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 13:38, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Ahh okay. I hope you finish working on Kyoko's article and nominate her fast so that we could work on Homura. I really believe that you can achieve the good status for Homura's article in THIS month...it looks like you were trying to make Homura's article GA status since 2018 which is really sad. Looking through her article right now, she actually has the potential to achieve the GA status. You just need to follow my suggestions, expand her "Creation and development" section, "Appearances" section and create "Analysis" section. I think I will create an "Analysis" section this week. Also, please work on "Design" section, it's small. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.231.127.111 (talk) 01:56, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I will try to finish working on Kyoko's article this week. Her article only needs some expansion (reception) and addition of Magia Record, so it's kind of easy for me. I agree with you! I believe Homura's article can make it to "Good article" status but it just needs some work. I'll follow your suggestions later, for now, I'll try to keep my focus on Kyoko. Also, if you want to create an analysis section then please feel free to do so! Just remember to cite reliable sources and not original research. NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 16:52, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

I just checked Kyoko's article and wow, you're doing a great job! Hopefully, when you're done with her, you can get back to work on Homura's article. I have books that talks about Madoka Magica, so I might create a "Analysis" section soon. Also, can you add this to the reception section? https://anitrendz.net/news/2020/05/05/decade-awards-puella-magi-madoka-magica-wins-winter-2011-run-off-polls/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.231.28.55 (talk) 03:03, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Btw, wouldn't it be better if you try to contribute with the Madoka Magica editors? Maybe ask them if they can help you expand the article a little? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.231.127.111 (talk) 20:14, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I have already tried to contribute with some Madoka editors but it looks like none want to help me, probably because of my poor English grammar. NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 13:38, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

"Writer Gen Urobuchi created Homura as a contrast to the series' titular character, Madoka Kaname. He developed her role as a mysteries veteran magical girl who would reveal magical girl's fate as the series progresses. Urobuchi expanded Homura's character in Rebellion, where he said that the film is about her deep emotions and growth. She was designed by Ume Aoki, who tried to express Homura's dark beauty through her design. In the Japanese version of the series, Homura is voiced by Chiwa Saito while Cristina Vee voices her in the English version."

I feel like this paragraph is badly written. Can you revise it? Specifically the "he developed her role" thing.
 * I'm sure you saw the above section "Rewriting this article" - the lede is marked with "not done" so I'll probably revise it later, when I'm done with Kyoko's. Also, don't worry, when I complete Homura's article I will submit it to Guild of Copy Editors, they will copyedit the entire article. Thanks for your time! NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 13:38, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Actually, why don't you nominate/submit it now? Maybe then we could see what needs to be done after they copy-edit the article. Like what improvement the article needs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.231.127.111 (talk) 01:57, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * It's better to submit it when I'm done. NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 16:52, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

"Urobuchi said that the idealized world which Homura dreamed up in her barrier represents the deepest part of Homura's psyche, where she wanted to play and fight with her friends against the new monster called "Nightmares", which was also created by Homura due to her "wistful" thinking that fighting "Nightmares" are better than "Witches""

Hey, this feels like it belongs to the "Analysis" section. What do you think? Should we move it?

Hey, I have created an "Analysis" section. I still am not done with it, I have several books that talks about Homura's psyche and mental health, and I also have the official guidebooks. I was planning to buy her e-mook (Homura Magica book) but I can't right now because of Corona-chan. I'll try asking people on reddit or anywhere if they can share the informations of Homura Magica since it contains analysis and opinions about her. 37.231.28.55 (talk) 02:07, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Ok. I just realized that I'm not really explaining well in the "Analysis" section. I've only added a few points and it kind of doesn't make much sense since I've skipped some important points by McAfee, so I'm going it remove the "Analysis" section for now. I will write a large two paragraphs with well explained content and then create the "Analysis" section again later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.231.28.55 (talk) 19:08, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Great, Someone reverted my edits. I think only a user can remove so please remove the "Analysis" section as soon as possible.
 * I removed the section. You can use my Sandbox to create the analysis section and all. NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 21:05, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

lead image
I believe that the Homura Magia Record image is not fit to be the lead image. If anything, the lead image should be illustrated by Homura's original character designer, Ume Aoki, and not by some designer that no knows (who the hell is Sasagi Koushi?) about. Could you change it, please? I suggest moving the current (Magia record Homura) image to "Magia Record" section (though you need to create the Magia record section first). So yeah, for the lead image, please add an image drawn by Ume Aoki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.231.127.111 (talk) 02:13, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I don't see any problem with the current image (Homura looks cool in it). It's properly tagged, and I don't feel the need to replace it. NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 16:44, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Eh I disagree, it really needs a replacement. Yeah, she looks "cool"...I mean...we all know that Homura is the definition of "cool" and "badass" so...yeah. How about this artwork by Ume? https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4832241230 You could try cropping it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.231.28.55 (talk) 03:12, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think that image is suitable. Her design is not shown properly and I don't feel like cropping the image. How about this one? NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 21:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)


 * I have uploaded an image illustrated by Ume Aoki. NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 21:48, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The new image doesn't really seem that much of an improvement from the one that was previously used in the article so this seems more like a change for the sake of change rather than the (in)ability of the previous image to illustrate Homura. Sak ura Cart elet Talk 22:27, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? Are you saying the new image is not suitable? Or that the image is not illustrated/tagged properly? NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 22:36, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The image is tagged properly, my concern is that neither this image nor the previous one are really superior to the other. The current image is a side view of Homura with her shield, the previous one a picture of Homura with her gun and her shield, the one before that is (?) unknown since a non-admin like myself can't view it. The image with the gun and shield (or possibly another image) probably should be used instead? If you want to we could possibly request a third opinion on what image (including other policy permitted) they think would be best to illustrate Homura. Sak ura Cart elet Talk 05:33, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's what you meant! I liked the previous image, but I feel the new one fits more since it's an artwork by the original character designer. Though I don't mind using the previous one so I'm okay with whatever image you want. If you want to change the image, feel free to do so! NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 14:32, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Waiting for a reply.... 37.231.28.55 (talk) 02:07, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Comments from DarkFallenAngel
Here's my suggestions and comments about this article:

Lead


 * The first two paragraphs could probably use some rewrite, especially the second paragraph.


 * The third paragraph looks fine, could use some rewrite.

Development


 * Honestly, this section is the biggest problem in the article. Not only does the section feel like trivia, it also doesn't really talk about her creation or development.


 * "While Madoka is a character who couldn't step forward at the beginning of the series, she started moving as the series progresses, while Homura on the other hand, is a character that stops at one place and is unable to move forward due to her time-loop, where she constantly turns back time to save Madoka from her fate." I don't know if I'm too dumb to understand but could you explain what this sentence means? Moving like how?

The four sentences below feels like it belongs to "Characterization" section.


 * "He noted that Homura has repeated nearly 100 timelines in order to save Madoka from her fate"


 * When asked if Homura is in love with Madoka, Urobuchi replied with "Probably". He further commented on their relationship, explaining that "a really strong friendship turns into a lovelike-relationship without the sexual attraction"."


 * "He also regarded Homura as the strongest magical girl "as long as no one discovers how she uses her powers"."


 * Urobuchi created the film's ending with Homura becoming a Devil called Akuma Homura (悪魔 ほむら, Devil Homura), opposing Madoka who is a God. This ending sparked controversy among fans due to Homura opposing Madoka's wish and becoming the "embodiment of evil", however, Urobuchi and Shinbo defended this decision, with Shinbo stating that had Homura ascended with Madoka to heaven, the Incubators (Kyubey) would try to steal Madoka's power by experimenting on other magical girls which would result in a bad ending, while Urobuchi said that Homura did not deny Madoka's wish.

Appearances (Madoka Magica and Magia Record): Alright, my issue with this two sub-sections so far is that it's written as if the reader is familiar with the subject.

Merchandise


 * "such as Nendoroids and action figures produced by many companies, including Good Smile Company, Banpresto, Aniplex, and other companies" You don't need to mention all of the companies, just write "produced by many different companies" or something.


 * Remove ""Um…Please hurry and wake up! Uh…It's already morning!"."

Popularity: The only section that is well-written, but what's with the image?

Critical reception


 * Way too much details and quotes that could be merged into prose. Most critics are praising her backstory and complexity and yet you just quote everything they say so I suggest you to reword the quotes to flow with prose better and not be just quotes.


 * "Dalin Rowell of Comic Book Resources noted the "so many complexities" to Homura's arc, and said that the character "never gives up in the most catastrophic of ways." Rowell observed that Homura "never learns to love herself - but rather only loves Madoka." Move this to Psychoanalysis section.


 * "THEM Anime reviewer Jacob Churosh scribed: "Homura Akemi, whose mask of cool aloofness and brutal indifference crumbles in spectacular fashion over the second half of the series, as we probe the depths of her history and begin to discover what tragedies caused Homura to don such a mask in the first place." This whole sentence could be rewritten to eliminate the direct quoting.
 * Same issue with Richard Eisenbeis of Kotaku.


 * The paragraph about her role in Rebellion looks fine.


 * "David West of Neo said that Urobuchi "takes their friendship and flips it inside-out." West wrote; "Far more complicated than merely turning friends into enemies, Rebellion takes their relationship and stands it in front of a funhouse mirror." I'm not sure what this sentence means. Is it meant to be a praise?


 * Again, the whole fourth paragraph contains quotes that could be merged into prose.


 * God, fifth paragraph is a mess. "Greenwood also states that while each of the series' character's design has themes that conveys their character, and that Homura is "reserved" and "slightly unsteady", these traits of the characters actually "endure nightmarish tragedies and betrayals in their canonical narrative arcs." What is this supposed to mean?

Psychoanalysis Again, there are many quotes that could be worked into prose.

I still have many complaints with this article but I'm going to stop for now. This article is mostly full of quotes that could be worked into prose. This article is also poorly written and some sentence don't even make sense at all. A copyedit is required for this article. I hope this is helpful. This is a very large article, so I applaud you for working hard on it and I believe once you resolve all of the issues then you could make it to GA status. Good luck! DarkFallenAngel (talk) 15:29, 12 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for the comments! I will try to clean the article and remove the unnecessary sentences and follow your examples. Btw, could you also take a look at Kyoko and Sayaka's article? Also, what do you think about Homura's lead image? Should I change it?NotEnglishSpeaker (talk) 02:40, 13 June 2020 (UTC)