Talk:Honduras/Archive 2

the U.S. Container Security Initiative.
As soon as the edit freeze is lifted I'm going to delete the paragraph on the U.S. Container Security Initiative unless someone can justify leaving it in. Rtdrury (talk) 21:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

2009 Honduran political crisis
This section has a giant paragraph devoted to the US president's statement and otherwise very sparse on direct information of context/events in Honduras and from Hondurans. When the edit freeze is lifted, I'm deleting the paragraph and adding some relevant information from the main coup article. Rtdrury (talk) 21:32, 8 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, I'd say the paragraph is already about the right length for a see-the-main-article paragraph without the information about what US people said. Just removing those and leaving the rest will do fine. --LjL (talk) 21:53, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board
I would like to announce the establishment of the Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board. Anyone with an interest in the Caribbean is welcome to join in. chicken Guettarda  04:05, 1 July 2005 (UTC)

Where is the History?
Who is censoring the history of Honduras? The current page jumps from independence to 1969. There are some historical "facts" that are appropriate, as untasteful to the US and CIA as they might be. Shouldn't this page discuss the coups, the "banana war", the US troop incursions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Travelintom (talk • contribs) 19:16, 12 July 2009 (UTC)


 * They aren't being censored, its just that no one has undertaken the task of writing them. Go ahead and start.  Rsheptak (talk) 03:02, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

removed POV rant
I removed a POV rant from the talkpage in my previous edit but forgot to mention that in my edit summary. Hope no one minds.·Maunus· ƛ · 12:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I definitely do mind. I don't agree with the person whose post you deleted, but that doesn't mean I think they should be censored. Talk pages can get heated at times, but it is not in line with the vision of Wikipedia to censor someone's viewpoint on a talk page. I would urge you to please be more careful when it comes to censorship in the future. --64.142.82.29 (talk) 04:30, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

In the sidebar where this article lists various officeholders, if you click the name of the president listed there, the link takes you to the article for coup d'etat. Intentional? Humourous? Vandalism?

To adjust names
Adjust name with the second one
 * Callejas Romero
 * Rafael Leonardo Callejas Romero (Presidency 27/01/1990 - 27/01/1994) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Caceo (talk • contribs) 14:35, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

the "coup d'état" of Manuel Zelaya (Urgent)
Under the History section of the article it states that:

"In 2009, a constitutional crisis culminated in a coup d'état and the forced transfer of power from the president to the head of Congress.[14] Countries all over the world condemned the action and refused to recognize the new government."

Is is incorrect. While the Army did remove Zelaya from office, it was under order of congress in a attempt to uphold the constitution. This makes a coup (in its literal meaning) impossible. From the opening line of the wikipedia article on what a coup d'etat is:

"A coup d'état, or coup for short, is the sudden, unconstitutional deposition of a legitimate government,"

Therefore, I purpose that all mentions that what occurred shine away from using the term coup (not just here but throughout the article in references to the current issue) at the very least until which time that all facts come to light, replacing it with a phrase such as "removed from office". In this example the text would read:

"In 2009, a constitutional crisis culminated in the presidents removal from office and the subsequent transfer of power from the president to the head of Congress."

Side Note: I would also like to take issue with the the phrase "Countries all over the world condemned the action and refused to recognize the new government." believing it in need minor changes for NPOV issues (minor, if not unimportant, in comparison with the first urgent request) --BookishOwl (talk) 06:23, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:05, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * This was a coup, plain and simple. The facts are all there to support that a coup occurred. The burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise. World media and international political consensus agree that a coup occurred. The government that illegally took-over Honduras is one of the lone voices saying this wasn't a coup. I would sooner trust a wolf with my grandmother. --64.142.82.29 (talk) 00:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Zelaya was breaking the law and the Supreme Court ordered his arrest. That is not a coup d'etat.  What he was attempting can only be done through a national referendum approved by congress.  The Supreme Court told him that it was unconstitutional and ordered the ballots be locked away by the military.  Zelaya and a group of his supporters then stormed the base where the ballots were stored and began distributing them.  The Supreme Court ordered his arrest.  That is not a coup d'etat but an exercise of a government following its own constitution.  I would urge you to think for yourself as opposed to believing everything you read. MrDestructo (talk) 09:55, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Chávez did not threaten with military intervention
The article about Honduras says that Chávez threatened with military intervention. This is not true. On the contrary: "Desmintió informaciones de medios privados según las cuales tropas venezolanas y nicaragüenses estarían preparándose para invadir Honduras. "Nunca haríamos tal cosa", afirmó el Presidente Chávez." Official government source: http://www.vtv.gov.ve/noticias-internacionales/20136 --Patrick Hens (talk) 10:10, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know about that one. I just googled: "chavez threatens intervention honduras" and got plenty of hits, from Reuters http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-40653020090628 to the Belfast Telegraph http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/venezuelan-president-hugo-chavez-threatens-to-invade-as-honduran-army-stages-coup-14369366.html and the list goes on. Wikihonduras (talk) 12:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Correct: A lot of private media are talking about the "Venezuelan threat". And that's exactly what Chávez said: "Desmintió informaciones de medios privados". It is common knowledge that many private media try to fight the socialist changes in Latin America, and they usually do not tell the truth while doing exactly that. Chávez denied the allegations of a supposed plan for invading Honduras in the ALBA summit, end of June 2009. And there is proof of this: his words were recorded. If there's proof of Chávez threatening Honduras with a military intervention, I'd like to hear about it. If not, the allegations should be considered another lie from some private media. If Wikipedia is about facts, the sentence that mentions "military threat from Venezuela" should be removed from the article.--Patrick Hens (talk) 11:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Try this one http://openvideo.dailymotion.com/video/x9q6ci_chavez-amenaza-honduras-29_news It seems like Chavez is indeed treatening with war and also saying that he will overthrow by any means the new government (not that providing video proof was necessary, I am sure someone will tell you that) Wikihonduras (talk) 13:52, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What Chávez says in this video is: "if something happens to the Venezuelan governor or embassy, this means war", without specifying any direct Venezuelan military intervention, as mentioned in the article. It seems normal to me that if something should happen to Venezuelan citizens in Honduras, Venezuela has the right to respond, though. Remember that sending UN Blue Helmets has been taking into consideration as well. The only country that has been using military force in this conflict is Honduras (until now, and let's hope it stays that way, and that the legal Zelaya government can replace the "golpistas" soon, to avoid more violence and violation of human rights). When Chávez says the Micheletti government must be overthrown, he is right of course. All international organizations and the majority of the people of Honduras agree on this. Still waiting for proof of a threat with Venezuelan military intervention or invasion by Chávez.--Patrick Hens (talk) 17:45, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And how exactly Venezuela can engage war without its military's invervention? Siglap2009 (talk) 02:09, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And, where would this war take place? Certainly honduras hasn't said it would invade venezuela so unless chavez will do it the duel style and meet in the middle of the atlantic his words can only mean attacks inside honduras.
 * Again you talk about Venezuelan engagement. Chávez does not mention this in the video. Maybe he's talking about a civil war inside Honduras, who knows. "Guerra" can mean a lot of things, especially in Spanish, it can even be fought without arms:
 * beligerancia: operaciones, ofensiva, avance, conflagración, estratagema, hostilidades, movilización, rebato, rebate, acometimiento, estrago, campaña, cruzada, descarga
 * batalla: lidia, lid, escaramuza, refriega, acción, cerco, torneo, liza, encuentro, choque, ataque, acometida, conflicto, pugna, lucha, rivalidad, oposición, combate, hostilidad, enemistad, pelea, contienda, riña, querella, pleito, discordia, disidencia, desavenencia, diferencia, desacuerdo, ruptura
 * invasión: incursión, conquista, función, ocupación, saqueo, pillaje
 * retirada: repliegue, derrota, guerrilla, facción
 * I'm still waiting for proof of Chávez threatening with a direct Venezuelan military intervention in Honduras. Proof of Chávez denying plans for a military invasion is already there (see my first comment). Until then, this discussion is over for me.--Patrick Hens (talk) 08:14, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Patrick Hens, for Wikipedia purposes the only thing it matters is if something can be properly referenced and if the sources are reliable WP:RS This is no a court of law, thus there is no burden of proof to be met. If you believe that Reuters and other sources that are provided are not reliable then that argument can be presented and debated here. If instead you think that your reference provided from the government itself is just as reliable, well then Wikipedia has an answer for that too. When the article opens up again, you can suggest to edit with a sentence presenting both sides, something like this maybe "On xy date Mr. Chaves made remarks which were widely contruited as threats to Honduras, although later he denied such remarks". Wikihonduras (talk) 14:08, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't looked at the article, but if it says Chavez threatened military action, like that, without the qualification about first hurting venezuelan citizens, then its an unfair sentence and can easily be repaired by adding the qualification. There shouldn't be any argument about it.  Rsheptak (talk) 19:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, now I've looed at the sentence and it is indeed unfair to leave it without the qualification that Chavez added a later qualification that his troops were not arming to invade Honduras. Rsheptak (talk) 19:21, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Isn't Wikipedia a beauty, if just other things could be easily fixed just as easy. Wikihonduras (talk) 23:13, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this a cynical remark, Mr. Wikihonduras? Or is it meant to be funny? There is nothing funny about the coup in Honduras. And do you have any doubts about the reliability and credibility of the Venezuelan government? You say Wikipedia has an answer to that. Where can I find this answer? Who are you anyway? Some sort of Wikipedia moderator from Honduras?--Patrick Hens (talk) 09:04, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I am with you Patrick, Coups are no joke. Since the first coup I ever read about, I thought the practice is depicable. As a new user myself, just like you which has never attempted to edit one article (See Patrick's stats) the first place to read about Wikipedia is the Five_pillars, there you will learn about NPOV and about Soapboxes. The most important thing I learned though, is that is nice to be in a media which is not censored unlike some countries in the world (see example of one). So anyone can write an article about anyone and anything like Por_que_no_te_callas? for example and it's alright. So go ahead do an edit to an article and enjoy the "revolution". Siglap2009 (talk) 12:16, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed, I am a new user, and quite a surprised one. But first let me comment on your link to the article about censorship in Venezuela. There is no censorship on the media in Venezuela. More than 80% are privately owned, in hands of the capitalist minority. They constantly keep on trying to destabilize the country by hiding and ignoring important information, telling lies, and even insulting the government. These media are not censored or penalized for doing this. RCTV was one of the worst. I was there in 2002 when the coup was taking place, but the Venezuelan people had already come out to the streets to reinstitute their president. In the meantime RCTV was showing comics. None of the privately owned media was showing what was really going on in the streets, and the national TV channel had been taken out of the air by the coupists; a typical example of hiding important information. RCTV, on other occasions, even compared Chávez with Hitler. If a US TV channel does that with the US president, it would be taken out of the air immediately. Later, when the RCTV license had expired, it was not renewed. And by the way, RCTV can still broadcast on cable and satellite. It was even decided in court (CIDH, which is international) that the Venezuelan government did not violate freedom of speech, property or equality towards RCTV (and Globovision): see http://www.vtv.gov.ve/noticias-internacionales/15211 for more details and official documents. I could go on for hours about censorship in Venezuela, but I want to conclude here, with the remark that Venezuela is one of the most tolerant countries concerning press-freedom.
 * Then about Wikipedia “neutrality”, as stated in your NPOV link. Reading the Honduras article and its discussion page, I noticed that Wikipedia leans strongly to the right (in The Honduras article, and probably in other articles too). It is astounding that Wikipedia denies the fact that it was a coup that took place in Honduras, and that it has doubts about who is the legitimate president. All international organizations agree on the fact that it was a military and violent coup, and that the one and only legitimate president is Zelaya, and that he must be reinstituted. But Wikipedia seems to have problems with that. There goes “neutrality”. And the fact that you yourself put the words “revolution” in quotes makes me doubt about your own neutrality. And there’s more that makes me frown my eyebrows, too much to mention here.
 * Anyway, I’ve decided that I will not use Wikipedia as a reference anymore. It just is not neutral, nor reliable. Neither will I be posting here again, it’s no use. If anyone would want to contact me on this, my email-address is patrick.hens@telenet.be --Patrick Hens (talk) 09:52, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You're correct in that Chávez didn't threat military action to depose the current administration (i.e. Micheletti). However, should Honduras threaten the Venezuelan embassy or Venezuelans in Honduras, Chávez proposes a military intervention...to do what he may in a possible war.
 * " 'Aggression against the delegation that goes to Honduras would open another type of door,' said Chavez. 'Then, we would have to consider, for example, a military intervention by the United Nations.' " link
 * "Chavez said on state television if his ambassador to Venezuela was killed, or if troops entered the Venezuelan Embassy, 'that military junta would be entering a de facto state of war. We would have to act militarily ... I have put the armed forces of Venezuela on alert.' [...] The socialist Chavez has in the past threatened to use his armed forces in the region but never followed through. He said that if a new government is sworn in after the coup it would be defeated." link
 * " 'We will bring them down. We will bring them down, I tell you,' Mr Chavez vowed during yesterday's broadcast, saying, 'I have put the armed forces in Venezuela on high alert'. " link --Ferrariguy90 (talk) 14:03, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Crisis section and use of the term "coup"
The fact that a coup took place is currently excised from the political crisis section of the article. Clearly this issue needs to be resolved in order to present a more neutral viewpoint. To not even mention the word "coup" is outrageous. --64.142.82.29 (talk) 04:14, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Because it was not a coup d'etat. If you check your dictionary, you'll quickly realize why. MrDestructo (talk) 17:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks at dictionary. It was a coup... the president was kidnapped and threathened by murder and then shows up in another country against his will! Previous user the current article does mention the coup currently.

196.209.209.166 (talk) 15:42, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikify list of departments
When the edit protection is lifted, someone should convert the list in the section Departments and municipalities to a true (auto-) numbered list (using "#" instead of "*" followed by a number). - dcljr (talk) 00:44, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. - dcljr (talk) 16:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Roberto Micheletti is the current president of Honduras
Everyone agrees on the article about Manuel Zelaya that he's no longer president and that Roberto Micheletti is the current Interim President of Honduras. Currently the title of Vice President of Honduras is unoccupied since former vice-president Elvin Santos resigned from that position in December 2008 to become a candidate in the November 2009 elections. So, in conclution, President: Roberto Micheletti (Interim) / Vice President: unoccupied Vercetticarl (talk) 01:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * "Everyone agrees"? Are you kidding? That article, just like Roberto Micheletti, is an ever-ongoing edit war precisely about that. --LjL (talk) 01:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Vercetticarl assserts a non-existent consensus in all cases and editors should ignore his requested edit. Rsheptak (talk) 01:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * no foreign country has done something about the crisis in honduras, it's 1 month now since the presidential sucession happened when Roberto Micheletti legally replaced Manuel Zelaya as President of Honduras. It's pretty clear now that the situatuion is not going to change. The great mayority of Honduran people including the National Congress of Honduras and the Supreme Court of Honduras has firmly stated that Manuel Zelaya can no longer return as president. So it's pretty clear that Roberto Micheletti is the Interim President of Honduras. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.53.244.15 (talk) 04:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * please, i ask an editor or administrator to take note of the mentioned above, please change President: Roberto Micheletti (Interim) / Vice President: unoccupied 190.53.244.15 (talk) 04:37, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Roberto Micheletti is the de facto president of Honduras; not the interim president. The distinction is one that has to do with the illegitimate versus legitimate exercise of the office.  Micheletti isn't legitimate, and the legality of his succession is very much in question.  With all due respect, editors should leave the article as it is for now.  Rsheptak (talk) 04:57, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * with all due respect Rsheptak, you are wrong, according to the Honduran constitution, the next in line to succeed the presidency of Honduras is the presdient of the national congress which was Micheletti, and in case Micheletti resigns, again, according to the Honduran Constitution, the next in line is the president of the Supreme Court of Honduras. So you better go buy a copy of the Honduran constitution before you hesitate about the legality of the succession of Micheletti as president of Honduras. And, excuse me, but Micheletti is NOT de facto, is Interim because is only provisional for six months because in January 2010, Micheleeti will hand down the goverment to the one who wins the Honduran general election, 2009. 190.53.244.15 (talk) 05:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Micheletti claims he will hand over power in 6 months, at wikipedia we cannnot take this as true. Thanks, SqueakBox talk 15:43, 31 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I've read the Honduran Constitution and talked about it with Honduran constitutional scholars. You assume Zelaya left the presidency in a legal way, and that is very much what is in question.  Yes, you know the succession as specified in the Constitution, but did you know that Congress cannot remove a sitting president? and neither can the Tribunal Supremo de Justicia, according to the constitution.  Best part is, used to be Congress could remove a sitting president, but they ammended the constitution and removed the clause that gave them that power!  So if Zelaya didn't leave office in a legal fashion (the real question) then it doesn't matter what the succession order is; anyone who succeeds under those circumstances is illegitimate.  Zelaya would have handed over the government on January 27th as well.  Rsheptak (talk) 05:41, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I just got my copy. Since you seem to know much about it. Can you help me find the place where it says that Citizens can be woken up in the middle of the night, at their own private residence, by army soldiers, without a trial and flown to a foreign country. You can see why this whole thing doesn't seem too legal for many people. Wikihonduras (talk) 05:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * investigate what happened before june 28, answer me that and then i'll answer you 190.53.244.15 (talk) 06:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I hope you were asking that of 190.53.244.15. I find the behavior you describe to be proscribed by the Honduran constitution. Rsheptak (talk) 05:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * yes of course. We've been contributors of this article for long time so it's interesting to see how heated this thing has become and how difficult it's been to find a neutral point. I thought to add my $0.02 of sarcasm. Wikihonduras (talk) 08:57, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I've deactivated the editprotected request because there doesn't seem to be consensus for it at the moment. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:59, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

"Encuesta"
Aren't there marketing experts available in Honduras to provide a "survey" about any topic the government would have needed to know? Most probably there are. So, this "Encuesta" proposed by Zelaya was not really intended to survey the people of Honduras but to impose later on the results as if it was an referendum.

Those who has follwed the Honduran case would tell you that Zelaya used "organized" mob groups to force his entry into the warehouse where the ballots were keeped by the judiciary, and took it in an act of force.

His intentions were not innocent, and the authorities had to make quick decisions before he attempted to use his mob-teams again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.140.223.48 (talk) 05:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Pure speculation on your part, showing a complete lack of knowledge of Honduras. The INE, the Instituto Nacional de Estadisticas, is charged, in the constitution, with aiding the president in conducting opinion surveys.  That's why the INE was in charge of the non binding poll.  Rsheptak (talk) 17:18, 10 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Rsheptak, i'm sorry to tell you that you are bad informed and clearly does not know Zelaya too well. I'm sorry to tell you the the ONLY one in charged to do things like the so called Encuesta was the "Tribunal Supremo Electoral", that's another of the many reasons why the encuesta was illegal. And i'm sorry to tell you but the poll was binding because Zelaya published a decree on the "Gaceta" 3 or 4 days before june 28, when he published that, it made the encuesta totally binding, please investigate better what happened and if not, go buy a time machine and go back in time to janury 2008 so you can follow step by step all what happened. Vercetticarl (talk) 18:04, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, Vercetticarl, why don't you post the article number and text that makes it permanent. I've just reread the decreto, and I didn't find it in my copy, which comes from the FF.AA. document bundle.Rsheptak (talk) 23:50, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Honduras President
Manuel Zelaya is obviously not the president of Honduras, he is not in charge of the country and does not have any power. it's been 1 month now since the presidential succession in Honduras and obviously this situation is not going to change, so Roberto Micheletti is the Interim President of Honduras. 190.53.244.15 (talk) 02:17, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * How can you or anyone for that effect, make claims about future events and add that it is "obvious"? Nobody knows if Zelaya is going to come back, nobody. Certainly there is a lot of pressure for that to happen. But it really doesn't matter for Wikipedia, since it is only speculation. What you wish or think it is or it is not going to happen is your personal opinion, but it doesn't belong in the article. Wikihonduras (talk) 08:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Why does Wikipedia consider Andry Rajoelina to be the leader of Madagascar but declares the presidencty of Honduras being unresolved. Both Rajoelina and Micheletti are de-facto totally in control and both are universally condemmed as coup leaders. Both contries have an internationally recognised presidential claimant in exile. Where is the difference expect that Micheletti seems to have more constitutional justifications for his presidency. Every coup leading general seems to get "Wiki recognition" but not Micheletti. --80.223.214.74 (talk) 18:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * agreed, i'm changing disputed to Roberto Micheletti Vercetticarl (talk) 23:13, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It's still disputed enough. It can be changed in due time. --LjL (talk) 00:08, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * what 80.223.214.74 says totally makes sense, please answer me why wikipedia does recognize coup leader Andry Rajoelina to be the faithfully president of Madagascar, and Micheletti is not consider president? what's the difference? Vercetticarl (talk) 00:14, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If you're serious about wanting to know, the short answer is because we discussed it as a group and reached a conclusion to leave it as "disputed" for now. That discussion was on this talk page but undoubtedly has been archived now.  Each community that comes together around a page needs to reach a decision on how to handle such a situation, since there is no wikipedia policy to handle it.  That's why one page can acknowledge the result of a coup, and another need not.  Rsheptak (talk)


 * I don't know and I don't particularly care, since I don't know and I don't particularly care about the issues in Madagascar. I am simply asking you to respect the consensus here. Anyway, at a guess, it could be that Andry Rajoelina only claims to be the President of the High Transitional Authority, not the actual President of the Republic, and the Madagascar article says that in the infobox. Micheletti is claiming to be a president of the "old" Republic, and that is quite disputed. --LjL (talk) 00:25, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * you didn't answer me my question! what's the difference between what happened in Madagascar and what happened in Honduras? if i don't get a rational answer i will also put disputed at the Madagascar article Vercetticarl (talk) 00:28, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * well, since you say that Andry Rajoelina only claims to be the President of the High Transitional Authority and not the actual President of the Republic, i will change to disputed, just like in Honduras Vercetticarl (talk) 00:28, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I did to the extent of my guessability, but for the third time today, you pretend not to hear what people say. Anyway, I'm sure that if you disrupt articles about Madagascar just to make a point, you will face the consequences of that. Up to you. --LjL (talk) 00:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Again, you did not answer me my question, what's the difference between Madagascar and Honduras? Vercetticarl (talk) 00:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * For one, Madagascar is in Africa, while Honduras is in America. Now stop being disruptive. I mean now. --LjL (talk) 00:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * i'm not asking where does Madagascar is. that wasn't my question, my question is, what's the difference between what happened in Honduras and Madagascar? you cannot answer me??!! therefore if you recognize Andry Rajoelina, you must recognize Micheletti Vercetticarl (talk) 00:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I have answered. Read above. READ. Do you know the word? --LjL (talk) 00:50, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * well since you say that Andry Rajoelina is not the president of Madagascar, i'm changing to disputed in the article to Madagascar, thanks Vercetticarl (talk) 00:59, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The Madagascar article's infobox never mentions a generic "President" (contrary to the Honduras one), but only specifically a "President of the High Transitional Authority".
 * Anyway, I told you already that this will be obviously taken as intentional disruption of an article to illustrate a point. It's your choice to uptake such an unwelcome venture. In any case, Madagascar is not on topic on this talk page, so please refrain to discuss the edits you may or may not do to that article here. They are not relevant. --LjL (talk) 01:04, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * i'm discussing Madagascar here because it's the same thing that happened in both countries, i still do not understand why does Wikipedia does recognize Andry Rajoelina but does not recognize Micheletti, i will change disputed to Micheletti, and it will NOT be vandalism and will not be disruption or edit war because nobody still does not answer me why does wikipedia does recognize Andry but not Micheletti Vercetticarl (talk) 02:27, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * agreed, vercetticarl has a point, i changed president of honduras to Micheletti 190.53.244.15 (talk) 05:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

President again
Micheletti has been in power over two months. Could he finally be considered to be president as he seems to be firmly in power and the return of Zelaya seem quite unlikely as the new government has so far survived. --80.223.214.74 (talk) 13:37, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * no. Rsheptak (talk) 16:30, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Why did you write just no? You did not really answer the question. --80.223.214.74 (talk) 14:42, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

When it had been 1 or 2 days, I agreed that it should be listed as disputed, but there has been nothing since then to indicate Micheletti is not the president, and everything to indicate that he is the interim president. I'm speaking primarily about the fact that he's actually the president, as in acting as president, and isn't contested by the government, nor action of the people. I would cite natural earth, as my source. This isn't an opinon. I think it is the hallmark of the subjective and silly nature of Wikipedia, that something so naturally obvious by human senses can't be agreed upon here. He's president. He's not not president. There's nothing stopping him from being president. He's president. Get over your emotions Wikipedians. Promontoriumispromontorium (talk) 06:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

"Libre, Soberana y Independiente" is INCORRECT
"Libre, Soberana y Independiente" is incorrect. In Spanish, you cannot have a double 'i' sound, such as what is said when you say 'y independiente' (the 'y' and 'i' have the same sound in Spanish). The same rule applies to the double 'o' sound (ie- 'o otros' ('or others'). You would need to say 'u otros'.  For the double 'i' sound, you would say 'e' so as to say 'e independiente.'  Leave it as 'e' or go back to college-level Spanish, thanks.207.172.166.181 (talk) 00:48, 23 September 2009 (UTC) you're right its not "libre, soberana y independiente" its libre, soberana e independiente--190.53.237.148 (talk) 01:17, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

2009 'Crisis'...
...does not belong here, and is totally inaccurate and doesn't even belong in the section the genius 'editor' placed it in. It belongs in Wiki news, as it will continue to be changed over and over as more news surfaces. By then, if left uncontrolled, the section itself becomes longer then the main article and looks more like a timeline of events and something out of a gossip mill than anything real.207.172.166.181 (talk) 04:15, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

"In 2009, a constitutional crisis culminated in a transfer of power from the president to the head of Congress." Is that how you call a Coup nowdays? Talk about lack of NPOV... To hell with UN and OAS resolutions... 201.208.246.68 (talk) 19:18, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I think for balance that Zeleyia was working with outside nations like Venezuela who printed the illegal ballots should be mentioned.Tannim2 (talk) 17:39, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Sept 24, 2009: The level of vandalism in this post is high...maybe we should freeze edits for a while
Hello. Maybe we should edit-protect this post, there has been a lot of vandalism on it lately. What do you think?

Aaron Ortiz

Aeortiz (talk) 14:42, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

there apparently has been an edit war on august 13, apart from that the history of this article looks very calm. not much activity. not a lot of edits each day. so i have to say i am vehemently AGAINST semi-protecting this article. those few edits that come in every few days can easily be reviewed by more experienced users. semi-protection only makes sense when vandalism and edit wars are so rampant that its getting increasingly difficult to find a good version to work from, when the edit history basically gets flooded. for me, the situation on this article doesnt even come close to "a lot of vandalism recently".

everything is fine here, there is nothing to protect this article from.

Kurtilein (talk) 17:07, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

constitutional assembly/coup d'etat/constitutional crisis common sense suggestion
If someone looks up a guideline, i think we'll find that when we have a section here in article H that starts with a tag, then the paragraph or two that we have here should really just be an NPOV/NOR condensation (if possible) of the NPOV/NOR condensation/summary of the full article X, i.e. the lead/introduction of that article. There's not much point copying verbatim, a reader can go over to that other article to read a fuller lead/introduction, and then go to the full contents for even more detail.

On the other hand, the article X that we're talking about is bursting at the seams and i'm not convinced that the present lead/intro in fact follows WP:LEAD, and it would take quite some work to propose a new version that would survive consensus - i.e. a summary of the content, including repeat references to references already in the main body (rather than new ones). Not impossible, but someone should do that work and IMHO it hasn't been done yet. So trying to condense a lead/intro that is in some sense not yet ready is a little dangerous, in the sense that the effort will to some degree be wasted since it will have to be rewritten when the lead/intro in article X is rewritten.

So my suggestion is not to make any serious changes to the section in this article Honduras, but to either wait for or attempt to propose a better lead/intro over at the coup d'etat/constitutional crisis article. After that is done, it would make sense to put a condensed version here.

Just a suggestion. Or else someone could propose an extremely short, extremely NPOV description of the events (a crisis occurred regarding: calls for a possible constituent assembly, the removal of Zelaya and his replacement by Micheletti and constitutional aspects of these events, and the human rights situation and political situation since then) that will be robust against future attempts to favour one POV or another, and easy enough to update in the same style when new significant developments happen. The idea is that there's no point trying to sort out a summary of a summary of another article X here on article H in a way that will repeatedly swing from one POV to another... Boud (talk) 18:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

why not use a section of this talk page to collaborate on the new introduction? here people can play around with it and as soon as its good enough move it into the article as the new introduction. the history about how it came about will still be in the archives of the talk pages. this talk page should be good enough to do the job, if someone moderates the process a little bit. Kurtilein (talk) 01:49, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

delete inflamatory comment

Section on Constitutional Crisis is badly out of date
The Honduras article is in a sad state of repair. I am not a Wikipedia regular; just a retired journalist. After reading today's article in the New York Times regarding Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's decision to renew aid to Honduras, I went to the article to refresh my memory of the outcome of the January 2010 events. Alas, not a word. This issue has not been revisited since late October.

Perhaps someone with no stake in this issue should craft a revision of the section on the Honduran Constitutional Crisis?

US to resume aid to Honduras

Valiantskipper (talk) 18:10, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * This article can't be brought up to date. Insufficient time has passed to overcome the denial of certain editors.  Any attempt to reflect the reality of the situation will be removed by these people.  At some point, perhaps, the obsolescence itself will clearly reflect a POV and the article might then be corrected.  During this interval Wikipedia will just have to remain out-of-phase with reality.  Allenc28 (talk) 23:16, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

incomplete history
The article skips a few centuries while jumping to 1941. This omits the entire history of the United Fruit Company and the creation of what became known as the Banana Republic! Not to mention serial dictatorships. The article on banana republic has more about Honduran history than this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isdnip (talk • contribs) 03:58, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Sumo people
Why are the Sumo people mentioned separately and not together with other indigeneous groups? I don´t know anything about the subject, but as far as I understand they are amerindians. --Oddeivind (talk) 09:02, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

geographical location
Honduras is in Central America, not in north america
 * Central America is not a continent. North America is. Honduras is part of the continent of North America --Xaliqen (talk) 17:20, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

The army in Honduras never was legally when they arrested to Jose M. Zelaya. Wasn't even a legal consult about the referendum. Nothing was a excuse to do that —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.21.70.253 (talk) 22:21, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Depending on the continent count method used, Honduras may be in America (As a whole) or in South America (When looking at North and South America as separate continents).
 * I know continents and how they're defined can be a bit arbitrary (Europe and Asia being separate is a good example), but every modern reference I've seen includes Central America as part of North America. Here's Wikipedia's list of countries in North America. --Xaliqen (talk) 16:18, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

potentially related
D.E.A. Squads Extend Reach of Drug War by Charlie Savage published November 6, 2011, excerpt ... See Mexican Drug War, for example. 99.181.141.143 (talk) 00:02, 12 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps given Honduras is now the most violent country in the world something in Crime in Honduras might be better; and this could indeed be skillfully included, IMO, as the trafficking in an integral part of crime in Honduras. Thanks, ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 01:32, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

crime?
How come there's nothing about crime or the homicide rate? I ended up in this article because Honduras is listed as being the country with the highest homicide rate, but there is nothing in the article about this.

- I agree totally. Somebody who knows something about Honduras needs to edit this page and talk about the crime rate and whatnot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.180.90.191 (talk) 23:58, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Note there is already a Wikipedia page entitled Crime in Honduras. There needs to be a wikilink to that page from the Honduras page, within the Demographics section 124.187.117.80 (talk) 09:20, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

homicide
Worth mentioning? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate (Honduras is the #1) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.117.68 (talk) 14:32, 1 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Note there is already a Wikipedia page entitled Crime in Honduras. There needs to be a wikilink to that page from the Honduras page, within the Demographics section124.187.117.80 (talk) 09:22, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

SECRET CASTLE
In Honduras there is a secret, not very secret but it's not talked about. Where a kingdom surrounds it, and the people living in there are under monarchy rule. The Queen, called Reina Herminia is now passing her crown on to her twin granddaughters whose name cannot be revealed at this moment because there are not in the kingdom. This Kingdom is under the rule of a rich family who doesn't use this kingdom's money for there personal benefits but they use their riches to help the people living in the kingdom. It is told by reporters who have been in the kingdom that the twin princesses, who visit every now and then have taken it upon them self to take care of the orphans. "For Christmas," said an orphan, "They refurbished our rooms and gave us new beds. They are the nicest princesses ever and I know that when they take the crowns shall rule the kingdom with pride and honor" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.131.186.62 (talk) 07:51, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Intentional Homicide in Honduras
According to the homicide figures in Table 8.1, on page 93 of the 2011 Global Study on Homicide, published by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Honduras has the highest rate of intentional homicide in the world, with 6,239 intentional homicides, or 82.1 per 100,000 of population in 2010. This is significantly higher than the rate in El Salvador, which at 66.0 per 100,000 in 2010, has the second highest rate of intentional homicide in the world. See https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/Homicide/Globa_study_on_homicide_2011_web.pdf

The Honduras page needs to be unlocked. There needs to be a link to the existing Wikipedia page entitled Crime in Honduras 124.187.117.80 (talk) 09:28, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I also heard while in Nicaragua that Honduras has the highest death rate by gun usage. I'll need to look into that more but good be a good statistic. Any help is appreciated.--MrNiceGuy1113 (talk) 22:25, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Untitled
Micheletti is not a legitimate president, so there should be a new section called "Coup Leader - Roberto Micheletti", leaving the legitimate president Jose Manuel Zelaya Rosales as president, with a subtext of ousted by coup. Elhombredelmonte (talk) 23:56, 23 January 2010 (UTC) Elhombredelmonte

Violent Suppression of Political Dissent and Organized Labor
Why is there nothing about the post-coup killings of hundreds of dissenters, rural peasant organizers, and labor organizers in Honduras? This article is hardly "NPOV" - and locked from editing as well! But, what would I expect from capitalist Ayn-Rand-loving Wikipedia geeks... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.77.115.18 (talk) 03:10, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Social Conditions update
Simweir (talk) 08:57, 24 February 2013 (UTC) The section on Social Conditions currently states: "In both 2010 and 2011, Honduras was ranked as having the highest rate of intentional homicide in the world." The line should be updated to include having the highest rate again in 2012. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate.


 * Done. Thanks for pointing out. CsDix (talk) 11:59, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Honduras law will allow the set-up of three private cities
Does this interesting news warrant coverage in the main Wikipedia article on Honduras? Honduras Sets Stage for 3 Privately Run Cities, ABC News, 5 Sep 2012: Investors can begin construction in six months on three privately run cities in Honduras that will have their own police, laws, government and tax systems now that the government has signed a memorandum of agreement approving the project.

An international group of investors and government representatives signed the memorandum Tuesday for the project that some say will bring badly needed economic growth to this small Central American country and that at least one detractor describes as "a catastrophe."

The project's aim is to strengthen Honduras' weak government and failing infrastructure, overwhelmed by corruption, drug-related crime and lingering political instability after a 2009 coup.

The project "has the potential to turn Honduras into an engine of wealth," said Carlos Pineda, president of the Commission for the Promotion of Public-Private Partnerships. It can be "a development instrument typical of first world countries."

Seems like a notable item about the political economy, economy and/or government in Honduras. Should be in Wikipedia. But where? Cheers. N2e (talk) 21:44, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

references that do not exist?
In the main article there are references to articles analyzing the legal/illegal nature of dispatching of Zelaya when he attempted to illegally alter the constitution regarding presidential term limits. None of the references to "it was illegal to dispatch him" (illegal in their opinion.[27][28][29][30]) are currently reachable. Interesting, if nothing else. this is what those references are as of 10/20/2012: 27.^ {http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-14072148} 28.^ {http://jurist.org/paperchase/2011/07/honduras-truth-commission-says-coup-was-unconstitutional.php} 29.^ {http://ccrjustice.org/learn-more/faqs/struggle-truth-honduras%3A-truth-and-reconciliation-commission-.-true-commission} 30.^ {http://www.oas.org/en/media_center/press_release.asp?sCodigo=E-755/11} ChrisHackett (talk) 16:07, 20 October 2012 (UTC)chrishackett 10/20/2012


 * "illegally alter the constitution", that is hardly true. Thanks, ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 21:40, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 26 November 2012
i want to eedit this page beacause the largest city is not Tegucigalpa... is San Pedro Sula

190.6.195.20 (talk) 02:20, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * If you click on those cities, you'll see the opposite. Do you have a reliable evidence for your claim? Materialscientist (talk) 02:23, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Relevance?
"On 7 December 2006, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Energy announced the first phase of the Secure Freight Initiative, an unprecedented effort to build upon existing port security measures by enhancing the U.S. government’s authority to scan containers from overseas for nuclear and radiological materials to better assess the risk of inbound containers. The initial phase of Secure Freight involves the deployment of nuclear detection and other devices to six foreign ports: Port Qasim in Pakistan; Puerto Cortes in Honduras; Southampton in the United Kingdom; Port Salalah in Oman; Port of Singapore; and the Gamman Terminal at Port Busan in Korea. Since early 2007, containers from these ports have been scanned for radiation and other risk factors before they are allowed to depart for the United States.[53]"

How is this relevant to the 'Economy of Honduras' except in the most obtuse of ways? Who exactly would care about nuclear scanners for the US if they were reading to find out more about Honduras? Nobody, that's who. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.83.73.17 (talk) 23:20, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

President calls for a day of devoting the country to God
Not sure how to include this in English, but it was all over the Honduran news. http://www.honduras.com/president-lobo-celebrates-one-nation-one-day/ 76.112.8.146 (talk) 22:12, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

they are going to shoot down small planes
http://news.yahoo.com/honduras-approves-shooting-down-suspected-drug-planes-042241166--business.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.108.8 (talk) 09:47, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Pro-american bias
The content of the article at differs dramatically from. In the article on this page, exclusive influence from USA is suddenly called "international", their corporate imperialism is labeled "development" and there is more mention of sports events than there is about the dislodging of a democratically elected president by a privately owned army hired by an american corporation CEO. I may know nothing about Honduras, but this is redicilously biased. 91.185.203.240 (talk) 21:55, 23 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I noticed this too. Also, what happened after the 1930s or so?  The article states that banana exporting companies "built an enclave economy in northern Honduras" but does not say what happened afterwards.  Did the companies lose control, or is much of the property and infrastructure of Honduras still owned or controlled by these companies? 138.16.18.24 (talk) 02:18, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Official tourism site
The direcction of the official website for tourism is http://honduras.travel, it need to make the change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.190.18.254 (talk) 04:51, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Missing word in "Conquest Period" section
The phrase "the conquerors relied heavily armed forces from Mexico" should be "the conquerors relied heavily on armed forces from Mexico." Note that as written, it could easily be misinterpreted as "the conquerors relied on heavily armed forces from Mexico," which has a (somewhat) subtly different meaning.

I verified my interpretation on.

Xphileprof (talk) 04:47, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Updating the "Political culture" section
The second and third paragraph in "Political culture" have not been updated since at least 2013 and should be changed to include the current president, Juan Orlando Hernández of the National Party.

This:

Today, the party system is dominated by the conservative National Party of Honduras (Partido Nacional de Honduras: PNH) and the liberal Liberal Party of Honduras (Partido Liberal de Honduras: PLH). Since 1981 Honduras has had six Liberal Party presidents: Roberto Suazo Córdova, José Azcona del Hoyo, Carlos Roberto Reina, Carlos Roberto Flores, Manuel Zelaya and Roberto Micheletti, and three National Party Presidents: Rafael Leonardo Callejas Romero, Ricardo Maduro and Porfirio Lobo Sosa.

The current Honduras president is Porfirio Lobo.

Should become this:

Today, the party system is dominated by the conservative National Party of Honduras (Partido Nacional de Honduras: PNH) and the liberal Liberal Party of Honduras (Partido Liberal de Honduras: PLH). Since 1981 Honduras has had six Liberal Party presidents: Roberto Suazo Córdova, José Azcona del Hoyo, Carlos Roberto Reina, Carlos Roberto Flores, Manuel Zelaya and Roberto Micheletti, and four National Party Presidents: Rafael Leonardo Callejas Romero, Ricardo Maduro, Porfirio Lobo Sosa, and Juan Orlando Hernández.

The current Honduras president is Juan Orlando Hernández, who assumed office on 27 January 2014.

Proof that this guy exists:

71.162.206.145 (talk) 03:28, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Stickee (talk) 23:39, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20141117163649/http://world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=&men=gcis&lng=en&des=wg&geo=-97&srt=npan&col=abcdefghinoq&msz=1500&pt=c&va=&srt=pnan to http://world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=&men=gcis&lng=en&des=wg&geo=-97&srt=npan&col=abcdefghinoq&msz=1500&pt=c&va=&srt=pnan
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110117130102/http://www.marrder.com:80/htw/jun99/cultural.htm to http://www.marrder.com/htw/jun99/cultural.htm

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Happiness
In 2016, Honduras was rated the 104th 'Happiest' Country in the world, the lowest of the seven Central American countries and 52 spots behind Belize (rated #52), the next lowest. Low GDP and high levels of crime & corruption were cited as primary drivers of 'unhappiness' in Honduras. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandersjd2 (talk • contribs) 15:39, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

unable to verify Colin Powell pledge
it doesn't seeem to be in his remarks at that meeting. Possibly this is a reference to US signing agreement? Elinruby (talk) 16:56, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

moved allegations about NDU to NDU page
since they don't deal directly with Honduras, and were not reflected on NDU page. Elinruby (talk) 17:05, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Etymology
The etymology section claims that the name Honduras could come from fonduras, from "the Leonese dialect of Spanish", but Leonese is not a dialect of Spanish, but rather of the Astur-Leonese language.--Metroxed (talk) 08:41, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lenguas de Honduras which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 13:33, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Indian reservations
Does Honduras has Indian reservations like this: Lands inhabited by indigenous peoplesKaiyr (talk) 16:16, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Poverty and Inequality in Honduras
My name is Gabrielle and I'm a Rice University undergraduate student taking a course in Poverty, Justice, and Human Capabilities. As a part of the class, I plan on expanding the information on poverty and different types of inequality (income, racial, gender, etc.) in Honduras. I intend on adding a subsection to the Economics section of this page. I would like to develop the ideas enough to give readers an understanding of the way that they general affect society and perhaps look into the causes of these phenomena in Honduras. I think it's very important that these topics are discussed as they do influence the way that Honduran society functions. All of the references I plan on using are on my user page (and will be added with my information as I edit the page). GHumphrey97 (talk) 03:20, 25 September 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by GHumphrey97 (talk • contribs) 01:49, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * That's fantastic! Those sources look great, and if you know of where you can find any of them online, it would be even better if you could provide links for them. Best of luck and I’m looking forward to seeing how you can make the article better! (PS: Don't forget to sign your talk: page posts with four tildes like so: ~ ) Cheers, -- Irn (talk) 02:41, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback! I'm excited to begin working. Each of the sources can be found on google scholar in PDF format. I provided an annotated bibliography below. GHumphrey97 (talk) 20:50, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

Annotated Bibliography for Intended Expansion of Page
As I said in my previous comment I intend on expanding the page to include information on poverty and different forms of inequality in Honduras. Here are the sources I plan on using! Each of the first ten can be found through Google Scholar. The last is a webpage and the link is provided.

1. Klasen, Stephan; Otter, Thomas; Villalobos, Carlos (2012) : The dynamics of inequality change in a highly dualistic economy: Honduras, 1991-2007, Discussion papers, Ibero America Institute for Economic Research, No. 215

This source will be used to expand the information on economic (wealth / income) inequality in Honduras. I think it will provide an accurate reflection of inequality's development in the recent past as well as contribute to information on inequality in the last decade that I collect from other sources.

2. DeWalt, Billie R, et al. “Honduras: Population, Inequality, and Resource Destruction .”Population and Land Use in Developing Countries: Report of a Workshop, National Academies Press, 1993, pp. 106–123.

This source will offer information on how changes in the population led to resource destruction and inequality. While I may add information found here to the section on environment my main focus is the relationship between population and inequality for the inequality subsection of the Economy section I will add.

'''3. Johnston, Jake, and Stephan Lefebvre. “Honduras Since the Coup: Economic and Social Outcomes.” Center for Economic and Policy Research, Nov. 2013.'''

This source provides information on the Economic and social outcomes of the coup in 2009. Its executive summary will be useful in providing a quick overview of the economic growth and subsequent increasing inequality in Honduras. I will also use it to provide information on unemployment in Honduras.

'''4. Gindling, T.h., and Katherine Terrell. “Minimum Wages, Globalization, and Poverty in Honduras.” World Development, vol. 38, no. 6, 2010, pp. 908–918., doi:10.1016/j.worlddev.2010.02.013.'''

This source will be used to explain the role of minimum wage legislation in contributing to poverty reduction in Honduras.

5. Bailey, Stanley R, et al. “Race, Color, and Income Inequality across the Americas.”Demographic Research, vol. 31, no. 24, 19 Sept. 2014, pp. 735–756.

This source will be my primary source for the expansion of information on Racial Inequality in Honduras. I think it is a perfect source because it also discusses its connection to income inequality. This was an adequate reflection of the connection between race and socioeconomic status in Honduras can be presented.

'''6. Chambers, Glenn Anthony. Race, Nation, and West Indian Immigration to Honduras, 1890-1940. Louisiana State University Press, 2010.'''

This source offers a history of the racial make up of Honduras. It will be used in a section on race in Honduras. I may also include some of the information here on the History page.

'''7. Rowlands, Jo. Questioning Empowerment: Working with Women in Honduras. Oxfam, 2008.'''

This source will be used in the Gender Inequality section I plan to add. While other sources will help me develop information on the extent of gender inequality, this one serves to present empowerment as a proposed solution to gender inequality. I will be sure to reference the author when presenting her opinions so as not to create a biased tone.

'''8. LoÌpez, RamoÌn, and Claudia Romano. “Rural Poverty in Honduras: Asset Distribution and Liquidity Constraints.” Rural Poverty in Latin America, Dept. of Agricultural and Resource Economics, University of Maryland at College Park, 1995, pp. 227–228. '''

Information from this source will contribute to explanations of poverty in Honduras as it relates to economic sectors. It will help draw connections between inequality and the split between rural / urban lifestyles in Honduras.

'''9. Morley, Samuel, Eduardo Nakasone, and Valeria Piñeiro. The impact of CAFTA on employment, production and poverty in Honduras. Intl Food Policy Res Inst, 2008.'''

This information will be used in the Poverty subsection of the Economy section in order to expand on the role of CAFTA on poverty and employment. It also offers a breakdown of occupation by gender will will contribute to expanding information on the intersectionality between different forms of equality.

'''10. Bradshaw, Sarah, and Brian Linneker. Challenging Women's Poverty: Perspectives on Gender and Poverty Reduction Strategies from Nicaragua and Honduras. Catholic Institute for International Relations, 2003.'''

This source will help expand both the gender section as well as the poverty section. It provides information on poverty reduction amongst women. This source is beneficial as it expands on the intersection between gender and poverty in Honduras.

11. “The World Factbook: HONDURAS.” Central Intelligence Agency, Central Intelligence Agency, 20 Sept. 2017.

link:https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ho.html

This source is to be used only for demographic information on racial and gender breakdowns within the nation. This information will be used to preface any information on inequality related to race or gender.

GHumphrey97 (talk) 20:42, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

These are all great sources, and I'm very interested to see the way that you integrate them to expand upon this page. I think you've chosen a great subject to focus on as it is both relevant and poorly described by the article in its current state. I think the toughest issue you will face will be in ensuring that you adhere to the neutrality policy of Wikipedia, but, given your impressive list of references, I think you will handle that just fine. Excellent work! Dnelson 14 (talk) 20:05, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Peer Review
The article does a good job of giving the reader an adequate summary of Honduras! The sections that you worked on have made a big difference, and those that you mentioned in your description are in the right direction. Addition to the economic inequality section will help to further provide the reader with a good overview of the country. I agree that the demographics section has room to grow. I think making sure that those new contributions are appropriately cited is still important! Good job on all your work so far! Let me know if you have any questions! Cbadillo29 (talk) 01:42, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Peer Review
The article does a very good job giving a throughout description of the issues plaguing Honduras. I liked how you explained which populations are the most vulnerable in the Poverty section. I would suggest continuing to state the vulnerable populations in the Economic Inequality section or at least stating which populations are the most afflicted/affected and maybe connecting this to larger implications for the global economy. I think statements like these will add weight and importance to the subject and ideas. I would also suggest just adding more information that reflects different perspectives that go beyond stating numbers and figures. Overall I think the contributions you have made so far and I like how you plan on adding more factors such as race and gender in your future contributions. Great start and great article! Kylaj (talk) 03:38, 30 October 2017 (UTC)Kylaj

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090207091818/http://hondurastips.honduras.com/ to http://www.hondurastips.honduras.com/

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Political climate
This section is very out of date and does not take into account the coup or the 2017 election, just for a start. The migration of children is also absent. Elinruby (talk) 10:20, 8 December 2017 (UTC) Elinruby (talk) 10:20, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Political stability
This is no longer true, if it ever was, but the references for the claim are from the early 80s. Elinruby (talk) 10:45, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2019
Update "Honduras Travel Warning" reference link from https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/honduras-travel-warning.html to https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/International-Travel-Country-Information-Pages/Honduras.html RoberTheBuilder (talk) 21:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: Instead of replacing the link, I have added a link to an archived copy, because it seems to better verify the information in the article. Gulumeemee (talk) 04:04, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Suspected statistical error
In the second line of the Poverty Heading, the unemployment rate in Honduras is given at over 27% with no citation. Every other source I can find estimates the current rate at between 6 and 4%.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shagbark1706 (talk • contribs) 19:41, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * 27% sounds like a gross underestimation. I have removed as unsourced. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 19:56, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 March 2019
There is a minor typo in the Political Culture section: "In late 2012, 1540 persons was interviewed" should read "In late 2012, 1540 persons were interviewed" Berghoefm (talk) 19:26, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done DannyS712 (talk) 23:47, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Hugo Chavez
change ((Hugo Chavez)) to ((Hugo Chávez))
 * Yes check.svg♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 19:14, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

21st Century
The picture of Ricardo Maduro is provided without any context whatsoever and should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.38.126 (talk) 19:28, 7 March 2019 (UTC)


 * If it can be confirmed that Hillary Clinton's 2014 memoirs of her State Department time contain descriptions of her/their involvement in the 2009 Honduras coup that should not be omitted, especially if the paperback edition had it deleted, as it was supposed to be in the hardcover edition but vanished for the paperback. It would be an admission of meddling? 2001:8003:ADE2:2900:91EF:C55E:FDA:89E8 (talk) 02:41, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Zelaya
Several sources state that the coup against President Zelaya had nothing to do with a second term or changing the constitution. Rather it was a result of his raising the minimum wage by 50%, a move which angered powerful companies such as Dole Fruit and Chiquita. Aujax231 (talk) 19:19, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Indian reservations
Does Honduras have Indian reservations like this: en:Lands inhabited by indigenous peoples--Kaiyr (talk) 17:44, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * No it does not. ~Honduras treats all its citizens equally. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 17:50, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:21, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Banco Central de Honduras (Edificio anexo) Tegucigalpa.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:51, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
 * CatedraldeTegucigalpa.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:37, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yarumela el chilcal.png

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:12, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * SopadeOlla.jpg

Copying within Wikipedia
User:Honduras200010, please see Copying within Wikipedia. When you copy content from one article to another, you are required to attribute that content to its source(s) as explained on that page.

Besides that, I'm curious why you're copying so much of that detailed information to this article that has been spun off to those other articles to keep this one a manageable length. Largoplazo (talk) 22:08, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Unexplained deletion of sourced content
, you have repeatedly removed large sections of sourced material from the article without explanation. If you are able to provide some explanation, please do so here, thanks. Please also note that content must be written in English, not Spanish. --IamNotU (talk) 03:11, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2020
I want to edit Honduras wikipedia in english — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.92.62.242 (talk) 23:42, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Full-protection-shackle-no-text.svg Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request.
 * Also, you appear to be the same person as and . If so, you are indefinitely blocked from editing English Wikipedia, for disruptive editing and sockpuppetry, and you must make a request at User talk:Honduras200010 if you wish to be unblocked or allowed to edit.

Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2020
Noncheitaly (talk) 23:44, 24 August 2020 (UTC) remove the block please
 * Full-protection-shackle-no-text.svg Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request.
 * Also, you appear to be the same person as, , and . If so, you are indefinitely blocked from editing English Wikipedia, for disruptive editing and sockpuppetry, and you must make a request at User talk:Honduras200010 if you wish to be unblocked or allowed to edit. --IamNotU (talk) 01:00, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2020
190.92.62.201 (talk) 21:28, 26 August 2020 (UTC) this page is edit
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: It's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ◢  Ganbaruby!   (Say hi!) 21:58, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 September 2020
186.2.144.59 (talk) 19:46, 25 September 2020 (UTC) new information
 * You can request specific changes here on this talk page on the form "Please change X to Y", citing reliable sources. – Thjarkur (talk) 19:48, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2020
186.2.146.201 (talk) 08:57, 28 September 2020 (UTC) This page occupies more updated information, which I can help
 * You can request specific changes here on this talk page on the form "Please change X to Y", citing reliable sources. – Thjarkur (talk) 09:22, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Edit requests by blocked user
There have lately been a string of "semi-protected edit requests" by sockpuppet accounts and IPs belonging to user. This user is indefinitely blocked from Wikipedia, and is not permitted to edit or make edit requests. Other users are not permitted to make edits on their behalf. Any edits or talk page comments by obvious socks (see WP:DUCK) can and should be removed in accordance with WP:BLOCKEVASION. I'm suggesting that further edit requests be reverted/removed from the page rather than answered. At the moment, IPs in the range 186.2.14* or 190.92.62.*, or new accounts, making nearly-incomprehensible requests to remove page protection can be assumed to be sockpuppets. --IamNotU (talk) 14:13, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2020
delete and add actually information Polishismyhearth (talk) 03:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Goldsztajn (talk) 07:23, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2020
Revert vandalism in latest revision. 67.85.37.186 (talk) 22:45, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


 * ✔️ –Deacon Vorbis (carbon &bull; videos) 00:56, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Old data
Under "Poverty," it states the GDP per capita is only $600 per person, which predates 2000. World Bank data from 2018 shows it to be $2575, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita#cite_note-4. Page edits are restricted and I am unable. I do a lot of humanitarian work in Ocotepeque. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.164.244.186 (talk) 19:18, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 January 2021
add more current information. Lanocgeduramas (talk) 21:43, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Add current information Lanocgeduramas (talk) 21:44, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Not Done. Please read the template and follow the instructions. State the changes you are requesting.  Having reliable sources to support one's changes helps editors evaluate the content.  Tide  rolls  22:00, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 April 2021
Nightinmerida (talk) 04:38, 1 April 2021 (UTC) user
 * ❌ No edit requested, and I have submitted your account for investigation as a sockpuppet of, whose editing is the reason this article is protected to begin with. Largoplazo (talk) 04:49, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 April 2021
The page requires more up-to-date information, from the fields of economy, geography and transport, demographics. so, please cooperate so that wikipedia is more reliable. ATTE Nightinmerida (talk) 00:38, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:43, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Please don't feed the sockpuppet. Largoplazo (talk) 01:50, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

health section
This would be a good addition to the health section - it expands on the existing info and adds new sources to replace nonfunctional ones

Citizens of Honduras have an average life expectancy at birth of 70.71 years, slightly lower than its bordering nations (El Salvador: 73.61 years, Guatemala: 71.17 years, Nicaragua: 72.18 years). In year 2000 there were about 60 physicians per every 100,000 people. Honduras does not currently have a strong infrastructure to provide drinkable water, and sixty to seventy percent of Hondurans do not have access to clean water. Mosquito-transmitted disease is also a significant health concern in most regions, with the most serious problems being Malaria and Dengue Fever of which there were respectively about 34,000 and 46,165 cases recorded in 2010. Honduras's fertility rate was recorded as 3.2 children per women in 2009 Honduras currently has a high infant mortality rate of about 19.85 deaths per 1,000 infants under 1 year old, although the rate has significantly decreased from earlier estimates. The current minister of health for Honduras is Dr. Arturo Pinel Benda, who’s ministry of health has expressed it’s goal as to create a decentralized healthcare system with universal coverage, high levels of quality, and efficiency in service delivery. Despite this statement, in 2010 approximately three quarters of Hondurans lacked any healthcare program at all, maintaining a historical trend of insufficient healthcare which has recently raised concern, as well as the attention of numerous humanitarian aid organizations. Honduras also has a comparatively low rate of healthcare spending at about 137 US dollars per capita in 2010, up from 102 dollars in 2007, although it has been able to avoid several expensive to treat health concerns plaguing other nations, such as widespread type 2 diabetes.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by MaxRaul (talk • contribs) 19:07, 7 June 2012 (UTC)