Talk:Hoop rolling

Quotes
Tyh actual quotations from Chateaubriand and Haxthausen are as follows; I can see why one might find them wordy, but they are vivid and memorable:


 * the little savage, the little Bedouin, the little black, the little Frenchman, the little Englishman, the little German, the little Italian, the little Spaniard, the little oppressed Greek, the little Turk oppressor, alike toss the ball and trundle the hoop.(Voyage en Amérique by François-Réné Chateaubriand (vicomte de); p120; Paris, Gabriel Roux; 1857)


 * blond children playing with hoops" in the sreets of Padovka, in Southern Russia in 1848. Études sur la situation intérieure, la vie nationale et les institutions'' ... (August Haxthausen (Freiherr von); p19; Hanover, 1848.)


 * If anybody cares to restore them in full, I won't object. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:47, 13 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Personaly I found them essayish and do object to the inclusion but will live with it if others feel strongly about it.--Amadscientist (talk) 14:34, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Article could use...
More project participation from other non history projects. An image from ancient Rome and a reference to re-add the information about ancient Egypt.--Amadscientist (talk) 14:39, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Images
I removed two images that I felt were not needed. was removed because I feel that the modern reinactment is not needed with so many images. Kids do not dress this way or play with this toy today. The microphones show this to be a performance and not encyclopedic for this article...now if it was video I could see using it.--Amadscientist (talk) 03:45, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

The other image depicting Victorian England in a "Punch" style cartoon seems out of place and overstuffs the article with more images than needed for article size.--Amadscientist (talk) 05:19, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Page split
It has been suggested that a good compromise for this article is a page split and a link using "See also". I suggest the following. That the page be split into the current article "Hoop rolling" and into an appropriately title history article. I suggest that the new article take on the English translation of whatever the true Greek name was as I believe the romans also kept the name and it survived the longest....probably. Anyway I will do some quick research and see what works best and post.--Amadscientist (talk) 21:42, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * OK....here is what I discovered. The disambiguation for Hoop was not titled correctly so I have moved that page to Hoop (disambiguation) as it should have been titled. There are so many different hoop articles I am actualy surprised there was no actual page for just simply "Hoop".


 * So I am going to split the page and use the redirect to Hoop as the title for the second page.--Amadscientist (talk) 22:20, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I see no point to this whatsoever. What is your line of separation and why? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:46, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, as long as you object I will hold off on the split. The basis is that there is no actual article on the hoop itself. This is the basis of several articles and I believe that by reducing this article to just the hoop rolling activity itself that the history article can be expanded with an eye towards the typical history reader and the Hoop rolling article can be geared to the gaming and toy reader. A merge can be done without consensus or discussion but I like to work with other editors that may have concerns to see what ideas they may have. If you feel strongly that my reasons have no merit, perhaps others will join the discussion and we can all come to a consensus as to whether or not a split is what the editors on the page really feel is best.--Amadscientist (talk) 21:49, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No preliminary action I have taken has any effect on this article. In fact, if anything I have cleaned up a few mistakes and cleared a way to a number of alternatives.--Amadscientist (talk) 21:50, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I still don't understand this. In order for there to be a meaningful difference between Hoops and Hoop rolling, there must be hoops that aren't rolled. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:47, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, I am sorry that you do not understand the difference between a single specific acitvity and use of an item and the item itself. Just because you are unaware of hoops that are not rolled does not give your argument weight. Hoops have different uses. Rolling them with a stick is but a single use and activity and may not even have been the original use. What.....? You've never heard of the hula hoop. Would it surpise you to know it was NOT an original idea when it came out as a toy?--Amadscientist (talk) 22:47, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hula hoops are a different article; that they are also rolled, about a vertical axis, is a minor point. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 05:20, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * If there's a "See also" in the "History" section, it should be to articles that expand on Hoop rolling as an activity within the individual periods or cultures. For instance, the section on Greece here seems quite in proportion to the article as a whole; I rearranged the preexisting material into what I saw as a more logical order. If someone wants to delve more deeply into Hoop rolling in ancient Greece as a social activity, artistic motif, and so on, the resulting article cshould be cross-referenced. (I happen to think that if such an article existed, it should be on Greece and Rome together, since the Roman sources I've seen regard it as a Greek import and shape their attitudes toward it accordingly.) I agree completely with PMA that the object can't be separated from the recreational activity, and that Hula hoop as a specific modern incarnation rightly has its own article. The suggested Move makes no sense, since the so-called article into which it could be moved is in fact only a disambiguation page; therefore, the tag needs to be deleted. I don't see any major structural problems with this article, which is well proportioned, and don't understand what's being proposed. Cynwolfe (talk) 14:23, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Hula hoop was an example of an ancient use of the hoop that is not the same as rolling. I do not understand the basis for your claim that you do not see how the object can be seperated from activitiy. With such limited thought to the subject I guess it's better for me to do my own thing and remember not to take member suggestions as they may just turn around and deny "Understanding" what I am doing, LOL! It was your suggestion SIR.

When a subject does not have an article, it is redirected to the closest page. "Hoop" does not have an article and therefore was redirected to the disimbaguation page that had been mislabled as simply "Hoop" and not "Hoop (disimbaguation page).

Pages can be merged, renamed (moved), split and redirects removed by any established editor.--Amadscientist (talk) 06:39, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Current usage
Do people still play it? You never hear about it in modern usage? 72.231.24.33 (talk) 15:49, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Hey. People do still play it, I once played it at school. And it was mentioned several times in an episode of the Nickelodeon TV series Fanboy and Chum Chum. Thanks. 67.85.241.84 (talk) 21:02, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Hoop-rolling of the juggling/vaudeville sort should be included
I just became aware of this activity, which I believe should be included in the "Modern World" section. See | this article on William Everhart, then do a Google search on hoop-rolling, with or without "William Everhart". (This implies that a disambiguation page on William Everhart is also advisable.) Also see | this page, and other references on the same site. — Martha (talk) 20:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

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Needs balance of cultures and logical chronology
Hi Wiki folks, I believe this article needs to be further reorganized to be in chronological order.

As it stands now, Ancient History and Modern usage is needlessly separated, creating a timeline that is not completely linear.

I propose to create 1 big History section that combines "History" and "Modern use." Once 1 section is created, we can subdivide the big History category by eras and centuries in chronological order. Each subdivision should include a sentence or two about different cultures' recorded use of stick and hoop.

Another concern: I also believe this article unfairly focuses on Greece, Rome, Britain, and America despite this being a worldwide phenomenon. I believe we should focus on adding more descriptions about this game from other cultures. Particularly, it seems we can use more information about the Tanzanian, Chinese, and the Japanese histories.

I also suggest to source from a variety of time periods rather than just early 20th century sources.

Please consider this a statement of my own intentions. I will do my best to research this topic shortly and implement the changes I suggest. Thank you for reading. Evedawn99 (talk) 17:21, 8 April 2022 (UTC)