Talk:Hopesfall

Untitled
Lest anyone think about correcting this, I will mention that the band's name is supposed to be lower-case. It's not a typo or lazy formatting. Isomorphic 21:25, 5 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Currently (Jan 17 2006) on Hopesfall's official website Hopesfall, the first news item, from the band, references the band as Hopesfall. The band's MySpace page Myspace/Hopesfall consistently uses the capitalized version. The artist page on their label Trustkill.com also references them as such. The only time that the band formally listed themselves without the capitalization was before the (latest) major lineup change, and before the release of "A Types". From inception until Parrish and Morgan left the band, they sometimes identified themselves as ".hopesfall." with leading and trailing periods. Interestingly, this is still the case on the pre "A Types" but still label-penned bio to be found on Trustkill's site Hopesfall Bio. I think that with the abundance of current capitalized usages by the band themselves, along with the Soundscan registrations Amazon.com Hopesfall listing, we can say with confidence that they have moved on.Ombligotron 00:05, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

From WP:VFD
Articles for deletion/Hopesfall/old

Added infobox
I added an infobox for the band, and uploaded a photo of the band that is available for public use on the trustkill website. Kurtdodrill


 * added discography box

AFD
On 16 October 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Articles for deletion/Hopesfall for a record of the discussion. – Alphax &tau;&epsilon;&chi; 07:43, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

A few changes
I have changed a couple of things, firstly changed the song off the no wings to speak of ep from april left with silence to end of an era which is the bands most prolific song, and changed the opinion that the bands new album is strongly favoured in the underground rock scene, which I feel is simply not true. adamshappy

The Frailty Of Words
I've found no evidence that The Frailty Of Words was ever released by Takehold records. According to the bio given on a page at Amazon.com, the band was approached by a man named Vic Cuccia to record and release the album. Vic Cuccia is listed as Co-Producer and Executive Producer on the DTS release of the album. All of this highly suggests that Vic Cuccia was in charge of DTS Records and that the album's initial release, and only release as far as I know, was through DTS Records. Neither Takehold Records nor Chad Johnson, the owner of Takehold Records, are mentioned anywhere in the album and its liner notes. If someone can provide evidence that proves me wrong, please do so.

the frailty of words?
you missed the album 'the frailty of words', which was after 'no wings to speak of' but before 'the satellite years'.Entropicflux 18:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The Frailty of Words was the debut album, but it is little talked about. The band doesn't seem to acknowledge the release, most likey because of the changes in the style and the line up since it's release until "No wings to speak of" -afroXcore

A Types
I notice the text of the article regarding the A Types album has been changed to a more promotional sounding version. The album alienated plenty of the bands fanbase, and was recieved with widely negative reviews. I feel simply stating that it was disliked by purists but brought a new fanbase to the band is incorrect and quite self serving. If noone has any objections, ill change it in about a week. Adamshappy 17:10, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

why is this article so full of subjective nonsense?
how do people get to put their ignorant personal opinions up on these things? is which "facts" are scrutinized for citations completely arbitrary? "melodic hardcore"? they don't sound much like h20 or pennywise to me. "moderate success"? what does that even mean? how much is moderate? "broke down the barriers"? "beautifully aggressive"? there's objective language. "early nineties grunge inspired"? that's the most bizarre thing in the entire article. i couldn't think of much A Types sounds less like than the first 90s releases from alice in chains, nirvana, mudhoney, and soundgarden. how can it be stated that a lack of screamy vocals constitutes a dramatic change in sound? and "long melodic interludes"? am i right in assuming interludes is intended to means instrumental sections? long and melodic are equally subjective and poorly used terms for pointing out any distinct characteristics TSY has. a mention of unique aspects of the bands style that remained constant on A Types, the dual guitar layering and types of harmonies in the chords, is completely absent, testament to the ignorance of the vocally oriented "waa waa i only like music with screaming" teenagers who contributed most of the article. i just don't understand how any of this is allowed to stand as an article. what is the criteria for what requires citations and what doesn't? 123.3.17.222 21:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)Liam

I wouls say the dramatic sound shift refers to the fact that the satellite years was seen as a bit of a landmark album, and with A types, its less to do with the clean vocals, and more to do that they adopted very traditional song structures and wrote pretty much straight up rock. I suppose if Ornette coleman released a Kenny G style album, it would also be noted on the respective article? I have had a clean up of the article, please let me know your thoughts 194.201.203.189 13:56, 24 June 2007 (UTC) (Adamshappy)

Fair use rationale for Image:FrailtyOfWords.jpg
Image:FrailtyOfWords.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 09:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Major clean up
I have cleaned up a few sections of this article, notably the dodgy music journo style text and the promotional sounding text in relation to A Types. If anyone has any comments about the changes, please let me know Adamshappy 09:01, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

It still says A Types is "early nineties grunge inspired" which I just think is completely bizarre and wonder what whoever wrote or agrees with that thinks grunge is. Grunge is defined by a raw underproduced sound and relatively simple powerchord-oriented riffs/progressions, both things A Types couldn't be further from. The flagship grunge band, Nirvana, were defined by their simplicity and the fact that they only have one guitarist. It's also declared that A Types is both softer and less spacey than TSL, two claims that seem to contradict each other, and the latter claim I strongly disagree with. I'd still like to know where these "melodic interludes" which I assume means "instrumental sections" are on TSL. The album contains 2 or 3 vocalless songs, I don't believe the remaining songs contain any more "melodic interludes" than A Types does. Your claim that A Types has "very traditional song structures" and is "pretty much straight up rock" seems to disregard the unique harmonies in the guitar chords that are the basis of the appeal of both TSY and A Types to me. And who are your reference points for "straight up rock"? Nickelback? AC/DC? If you can point out one riff on A Types you think sounds like something either of those bands would write I'd be impressed. I guess what you mean by "traditional song structures" is that most of the songs on A Types have clearly defined choruses while most of the songs on TSY don't? I don't even know if that's true, I kinda think it's not, but I just don't see it as that significant a factor in what makes Hopesfall Hopesfall. There's a lot more bands that write songs with freeform structure than there are bands that use the specific layered harmonies Hopesfall does, and I think it's wrong that the harmonic component of their music, something which has remained relatively consistent between albums, is being so disregarded. Is harmony too academic a concept to be regarded in a rock band's article? 149.135.105.142 02:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)Liam

Liam, to start before you make comments such as the ones you have made above, please clarify with yourself who has written what. I have had a clean up, most of the text on this page was not written by myself. I do not want to get into a debate about music styles, as those debates are never ending. The article in my opinion should simply express that the band shifted in style dramatically, from what could be described as relatively progressive hard core to an album with clean vocals, traditional song structure and time signatures that led to the album being derided amongst fans. Adamshappy 22:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

So you don't stand by the claims of A Types being "grunge" or "straight up rock"? But you don't care if they're inaccurate? Because it's easier to ignore it than debate it? It's not like we're talking about a distinction between thrash and death metal, it's generally understood what grunge means and obvious to anyone who's heard A Types that it's not grunge. I'd settle for the term being changed to "alternative rock". I understand your claims about the change in sound on A Types. I have contended that the differences are more superficial than substancial, and you have failed to address my arguments and questions. It seems like you're more interested in having the article reflect your personal feelings about the albums than facts. All I'm requesting (besides the removal of the irrelevant "grunge" tag) is an addition of one line about the element of the band's music that remained consistent from TSY to A Types: the guitar harmonies. Do you have a vested interest in refusing to acknowledge this element? 149.135.107.165 18:41, 8 August 2007 (UTC)Liam

good grief of course not, I simply did not want to alter the grunge tag as I do not myself know enough about the grunge genre to debate it either way. The whole nature of wikipedia is 'dive in' so please do go ahead. I am not trying to reflect my own personal feelings, but it is accurate to say the with A Types Hopesfall introduced a dramatic shift in genre that was very unpopular with the bands previous fanbase. As I said, I do not know enough about grunge to debate the tag, but if you feel alternative rock is a more applicable description then I support this. Adamshappy 23:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

(UTC)Liam: Its obvious that you are simply attempting to counter the popular bias towards TSY. Having an unpopular bias does not allow you to do the same things you speak out against, and is just as inexcusable. Please stop nit-picking. -Mike

Jay Forrest?
The link that is supposed to take you to Jay's article actually redirects to a different Jay Forrest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by I1100a (talk • contribs) 22:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:07, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Hopefall2017.jpg