Talk:Horand von Grafrath

Odd choice of words
Max von Stephanitz was the "father" of the modern German Shepherd? Aren't there laws against that sort of behavior? Seriously though, consider revising that sentence. I'm not gonna do it, just because I think it's too funny Antimatter--talk-- 00:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, really - Von Stephanitz is said to be the father of the modern breed. In the source that is cited next to the sentence it says; "At this time Capt. Max von Stephanitz appears in the breed’s history and indeed it is this man who is acclaimed as the father of the breed" and that's just one source that uses the word "father". ~ Ame I iorate U T C @ 03:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Linkrshein
Though it's repeated, may one assume that this is an error for Linksrhein? —Tamfang (talk) 01:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It was a mistake. I have fixed it now. It was repeated because I typed the name from a book and made the typo without realising, then instead of retyping it, I copied and pasted the name each time I wanted to use it. Thanks for picking up on that. ~ Ame I iorate U T C @ 04:01, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Photo
I have found no source that states that the dog in the photo is Horund von Grafeth. The dog doesn't even look like the pictures of Horund, but has a more slender face with the black eye markings of a saddle-back colored German Shepherd. I believe I read in a book somewhere that the dog in the photo is Flora vom Siebengebirge, the first Shepherd to display the saddle-back markings. I'll have to do more research, but I don't think its Horund. Zaereth (talk) 18:55, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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Origin of the breed
Due to some questions about the origin of the breed that someone added to the article today (instead of asking on the talk page), ie: where Horand came from, and what the breed was called originally, I thought I'd answer them here, because there is not enough space in the edit summary. There are some great details in the book The German Shepherd Dog in Word and Picture, by Max von Stephanitz, if anyone is interested.

To sum it up, at the time there were many, many different breeds of shepherd dogs in Germany, in a time where other countries were coming up with official standardized breeds. Most were bred by actual shepherds for use as working dogs, but the types varied wildly across the country, mostly based upon whatever town or area they came from. Stephanitz shows many, many different breeds of shepherd dogs from Germany in the book.

The biggest differences could be divided between dogs from the north and dogs from the south. In the south they liked floppy ears and the more colorful coat, whereas in the north people preferred dogs with erect ears and the more greyish, wolf-like appearance. However, the Thuringian dogs from the north often had a problem of many pups coming out with a curled tail, which no one liked. This is where interbreeding between the shepherd dogs from the north and south began, to get the best properties of both dogs. Stephanitz chose dogs from both Thuringia in the north and Wurtemberg in the south for his breeding program.

The Thuringian dogs were more wolf-like, with the greyish, yellow, black-tipped sable coat. They tended to be more active than the Wurtemberg dogs, but also more playful, a bit headlong in their ways, and sometimes more stubborn. The Wurtemberg dogs were black. The southerners had a hard time selling dogs with floppy ears, and thus their dogs had little monetary value, so they began breeding more for the wolf-like appearance that the northerners wanted. Their dogs lacked the "rush in headlong", "leap without looking" spunk of the Thuringian Shepherds, but tended to be more patient, observant,and better at problem solving abilities.

Horand was a Thuringian Shepherd with a sable coat, which was bred by Herr Sparwasser at Sparwasser Kennels. Sold to an unnamed third party, this person then sold the dog (then Hektor) to a man named Eiselen. Eiselen took the dog to a dog show one day where Stephanitz spotted him, and he thought the dog to be perfect for his breeding program. The funny thing about Stephanitz is that he didn't care a hoot about the dog's appearance. He focused solely on the qualities of a good working/family dog. He then bred this dog with other dogs of mixed Thuringian and Wurtemberg heritage, such as Mira von Grafrath (originally Mira von der Krone). These dogs sometimes had the sable coat of the Thuringian dogs or the black coat of the Wurtemberg dogs, or, as is the case with Mira, a comination of the two which became the common black and tan (saddleback) coat so popular in American kennels today, or the bi-color coat as well.

So the German Shepherd breed is a combination of different breeds from Germany in an attempt to create a standardized breed for the country. I hope that helps the answer the IP's questions. Zaereth (talk) 03:13, 26 June 2020 (UTC)