Talk:Horeke basalts

Discussion about scope of article copied from User talk:114.134.11.6‎
I am the owner of the "Wairere Boulders", a private nature park. This is the short name of our business the "Wairere Boulders - Nature Park". The term "Nature Park" is used to let people know what it is. The user "Christopher3895" has added a web address which contains our business name and makes readers believe that the page he created is the official site for the Wairere Boulders. That site does no even link to us, it just links to our neigbours unsuccessful business which has nothing to do with the our business called "Wairere Boulders". We need help to stop Christopher3895 from high jacking our business.

I have written the following text on my talk page.

The term "Wairere Boulders" is the name for our business since 1999. It is the brain child of Felix and Rita Schaad, is our trade mark and we have the intellectual property rights to that name. This has been worked out with a specialised intellectual property rights lawyer in AKL. Every book, travel magazine, blog, refers to our business under the name Wairere Boulders. We trade and bank money (checques) under that name. Also we erected 12 Road Signs under that name to guide over around 7'000 visitors annually to our business. Also we print 25'000 brochures annually with that name. You can go onto Google and you will find out that this is true. The geographical name for the valley is Wairere valley. It can be found on all older maps. Wairere Boulders is now also printed on many new road maps as a reference to our business. We will not allow Wikipedia to misinform the public about this fact. One can see that all links on the site come from our business and were part of our research into the topic of the boulders. wwww.wairereboulders.com has nothing to do with the Wairere Boulders. The uRL has been bought because they wanted to to make use of the reputation of the world unique Nature Park. Their initial website was www.wairerevalley.com and all traffic to www.wairerevalley.com gets now forwarded to www.wairereboulders.com, which has absolutely nothing to do with our business. We rather want to have no Wairere Boulders Wikipedia site if it is not truthful and factual. I am seeking a dispute resolution with christopher 3895 which reverses our corrections. { Since I have written this paragraph, the website www.wairereboulders.com got changed) Wairere (talk) 12:39, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I have also reverted your changes. Your additions are inappropriate for the article.  The article in question, Wairere boulders, is about the boulders themselves and their formation.  I have also moved the article so that boulders is now with a lowercase "b" because it is not a proper noun.  The article does have one major problem at this time, it does not have any references from reliable sources in it and I have tagged it as such.  GB fan 15:55, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I do not agree with you. If you go onto the website which you left on the page for "Wairere boulders" http://www.wairereboulders.com, claiming to be the official website for Wairere Boulders, you will find out that it is only used to divert the readers to the Wairere Adventure Park, or other places which have nothing to do with the Wairere Boulders (see link: In The Area). The link "Contact" opens an e-mail form which sends the e-mail to their business. It has no additional information on the page than what is not already on the Wikipedia site which we posted onto Wikipedia. It even displays the title "Wairere Boulders" the name of our business. We already started to post information about our business years ago see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wairere_boulders&oldid=9011195 or any other old posts. The "Wairere Adventure Park" just got established a few weeks ago and they try to interfere with our business. Our business http://www.wairereboulders.co.nz which is running for 9 years is even not mentioned on http://www.wiarereboulders.com. Their website http://www.wairereboulders.com just got established a few days ago. The website contains very little information about the rocks in the Wairere valley, where as our website contains in depth information about the rocks we named boulders. I studied geology myself and have many contacts with other NZ geologist and the NZ Institute for Geology and Nuclear Science to get the facts straight. You deleted all these helpful links we had for years. That's not right! In this case your action supports liars and cheaters.

I have the following questions:


 * 1) Where can I object against your decisions in case it's wrong?
 * 2) Can I write a new page named  "Wairere Boulders" as you moved the existing page to "Wairere boulders"? This will allow us to set the facts straight.

Wairere (talk) 23:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You are right, I should have removed that link also and now it is gone. None of the links I deleted were from a reliable source so they do not belong either.  If your company is notable you can request an article be created but you shouldn't write it yourself as you have a conflict of interest.  You can create it through the articles for creation process and let someone else decide if it meets the requirements also.  GB fan 04:03, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your step

Just to your information: 80 % of the rock formation in the Wairere valley belongs to us and is on private property. The park has also been built and finaced by us. The scientific world names the rocks as Wairere basalts or Wairere basalt rock. It was our marketing decision to name the business Wairere Boulders and the rocks on our land also Wairere boulders. So, if I speak about Wairere boulders, I speak about the rocks on our land and visited by tourists. Legally, all denominations like Wairere Boulders, Wairere boulder valley, Wairere boulder reserve, Wairere boulder river or even Wairere boulders, are our intellectual propoerty.

The scientific world calls the rocks in the Wairere velley Wairere basalts, or basalt rocks at Wairere, as there are some rocks also outside the valley.

When we started the Wiki Page Wairere Boulders, it was our intention to talk about our park. Otherwise we would have chosen a different name. Many links in Wikipedia to Wairere Boulders are mentioning the park or walk. So that will now be incorrect as they do not expect an explication about rocks. That's something for you to look into.

Therefore I suggest that Wikipedia vacates the page Wairere Boulders and moves it to Wairere Basalts or Wairere Basalt Valley. This gives us a chance to get some outsider to start a page about our Park and all definitions would be correct and rights respected.

This is in you hands.

Now to the links: We had the following links with information which is from experts or reliable sources I think it is worthwhile to have all these links on Wikipedia.
 * 1) http://www.wairereboulders.co.nz/geology/lapiez.htm  A scientific article from a scientific magazine by Alan Mason, now around 90 years old.  We have the permission to copy online.  Just by the way, not one word about boulders.
 * 2) http://www.wairereboulders.co.nz/geology/horeke_basalt.htm This is a letter from the head of the Goelogy Department at AKL Uni (Philippa Black).
 * 3) http://www.wairereboulders.co.nz/geology/gsnz_news.htm This is a newsletter of the NZ Geological Society and the Institute of Geology and Nuclear Science.  These articles are severely screened for accuracy.
 * 4) http://www.wairereboulders.co.nz/geology/formation.htm This is a short explication of the formation of the valley.  Written by me,  I studied Civil Engineering and therefore also Geology as a part of knowledge needed for Petrology, Earth and Soil Mechanics.

All up to you now.

Wairere (talk) 03:51, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you believe that your company meets our notability criteria for organisations, and is the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources? There are many articles in Wikipedia that are named for another party's intellectual property. Are you making a legal request or threat for the article to be moved? Stephen 05:22, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I have read the notability criteria for organisations. Wairere Boulders is a qualmarked business mentioned in almost every travel guide round the globe, on the official New Zealand tourism websites http://www.newzealand.com/int/utilities/search/?q=wairere+boulders, or all over the internet on Google http://www.google.co.nz/#hl=en&cp=9&gs_id=1t&xhr=t&q=wairere+boulders&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=wairere+b&aq=0&aqi=g3&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=357a62ffbbe6727b&biw=1680&bih=855

The only website that is out of line is Wikipedia. All content on the existing Wikipedia page is from our website. Therefore I suggest to change “Wairere_boulders“ to “Wairere_rock_valley“. When that is done the mistakes in terminology can be corrected. The page “Wairere_Boulders“ can be used to properly represent our business. We have personally no gain in all of this. Out of 26'000 visits on our website 200 were from Wikipedia. The only thing we want to achieve is, Wikipedia to be correct--Wairere (talk) 01:03, 3 February 2012 (UTC).

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved to Horeke basalts. Further discussion (probably at WP:RFD) may be required to determine if Wairere boulders and Wairere Boulders are plausible redirects to this article, and also whether Wairere basalts should be created as a redirect. (non-admin closure) Jenks24 (talk) 12:55, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Wairere boulders → Wairere basalts –
 * I would support this article being moved to Wairere basalts or similar. I think Wairere has made a good case above that the "Wairere Boulders" name primarily relates to his or her business, not to the rocks.- gadfium 01:54, 3 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Support This obviously needs sorting out, and the discussion above makes a good argument for the page move.  Schwede 66  20:20, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

I suggest to name it Horeke Basalts. It is the scientific term used in geology. You can verify it here: http://www.google.com/#hl=en&cp=13&gs_id=15&xhr=t&q=horeke+basalt&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&site=&source=hp&rlz=1W1GGLJ_en&pbx=1&oq=horeke+basalt&aq=0v&aqi=g-v1&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=4cd30fb49dbae05b&biw=1344&bih=617 --Wairere (talk) 10:43, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I support Horeke basalts, but the second word should not be capitalised because it's not a proper noun.- gadfium 19:48, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.