Talk:Horizon-class frigate

Forbin class destroyer
What is the origin of the name "Forbin class"? With google I found that it originates from a 1888 cruiser named Forbin - but I wonder if that one was originally named after Count (Chevalier) Claude de Forbin? andy 11:37, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * That's said on the FS Forbin article Rama 16:43, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Horizon class frigate
110 petty officers and 38 seamen? surely this is the wrong way around? Toby Douglass
 * No, doesn't seem necessarly wrong; modern vessels of the French Navy seem to require highly trained personnel, so most of the crew have significant ranks. Rama 16:43, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Additionally, a Petty Officer is pretty much the same rank as a Sergeant or Corporal in the Army (depending on which navy you are comparing to etc); see Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO_Navies_Enlisted, and as such i'm not so sure that it is a "significant" rank, but its not as though there are 110 officers and 38 "enlisted" personnel on the ship; indeed that would be very surprising. 58.7.171.182 09:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

largest warships other than carriers?
Hi All

Not to be a complete pedant, but surely there are a few more ships other than carriers bigger than these? Richelieu, Jean Bart, Dunkerque, Strasbourg etc etc...
 * Indeed, this statement is totally false. Firstly, there are dozens of the Ticonderoga class cruisers (at ~9500 tonnes) in the US Navy that have greater displacement, and even topping those, there are the Kirov_class_battlecruisers which at 24300 tonnes just totally outclass the Horizon frigates. Thus, i'll remove the statement now (if its not done already). 58.7.171.182 09:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Question about the frigate's speed
This page says the top speed is 30 knots+ (well I made it a little clearer), but the articles on Forbin and Chevalier Paul say 29 knots. Can anyone provide some sources (if not in English, please give a translation) as to which is correct? If someone could come up with a report or statement made from actual test results that would be great, or have none of the ships actually had speed trials yet? I just don't want to go by official plans if we have something else, as the Charles de Gaulle's actual speed was lower than the official one for some time. John Smith&#39;s 22:49, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The Forbin hasn't yet done its full speed trials, so its only an estimated value.


 * The officiale value after trials is 29kt. I modified the value in the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.120.81.182 (talk) 11:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Frigates to Destroyers
The title need to be changed from frigates to destroyers. The pennant number of the ships starts with a D suggesting they are destroyers. Bcs09 (talk) 07:52, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That would only be a display a rampant USAyan-centric POV. These ships are called "frigates" by both users, and their role is more akin to that of a cruiser in any case. Rama (talk) 09:17, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The U.S do use the term destroyers whereas the French Navy did not. What I don't understand is why the Horizon class ships cannot be termed destroyers when similar ships in its class are called destroyers. It seems that Wikipedia has adopted the term destroyers instead of First class frigate. So shall we continue, using the term destroyers in Wikipedia?Bcs09 (talk) 13:50, 27 November 2009 (UTC)


 * the italian navy call it "cacciatorpediniere" torpedo boat destroyer, so in today use for english speaking navies destroyer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Francomemoria (talk • contribs) 14:54, 8 January 2020 (UTC)


 * The French Navy English website calls the ship as destroyer Forbin. So it's time to change the title from Forbin class frigate to Forbin class destroyer.Bcs09 (talk) 05:46, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * @Rama Actually, the point of view that the ships are really destroyers has more to do with the French navy's reorganization of ship classes and what NATO considers it equivalent to for joint NATO deployment than anything relating to the American ship classification system, which doesn't use pennant numbers anyway. The French term for destroyer (contre-torpilleur) refers to the full name, torpedo boat destroyer.  As torpedo boats are no longer part of naval strategy in post-WWII, I assume the French thought naming ships as literally "anti-torpedo-boat" ships as antiquated.  The last French destroyers, the T-class, were renamed wing escorts (escorteurs d'escadre) to reflect the changing mission of the ships; similarly, the French ship classes corvettes, escort avisos, and destroyer escorts have been adopted and dropped in the Cold War era.  The fact that the French agree to classing the ships under the D category for pennant numbers supports that the ships are considered destroyers in terms of mission and size.


 * That being said, my understanding was when Horizon was first initiated, the participating nations were actually aiming to make true frigate ships i.e. sharing the same hull-form but tailored to the one mission that the particular navy wanted out of the ship, similar to the MEKO concept. It's when the requirement lists were drawn up, it was shown that everyone wanted the ships to be multi-mission and so started to align more with destroyer types.  My opinion is to keep Horizon project page labeled as frigate as that was the original intention of the project, but have the individual ships and classes labeled as destroyers on their pages.  Ninja138 (talk) 18:22, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Commissioning
I have noticed that Jane's Fighting Ships 2010-2011 the dates for commissioning do not tally with the article. According to Jane's the "Andrea Doria" was commissioned in Dec-08 and the "Forbin" is listed as Dec-2010 although the suggests this date is hoped for at the time of writing.

David 12 July 2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.181.25 (talk) 22:58, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Commissioning dates
Using Jane's FS 2010-2011 and the French Naval website I have the commissioning dates for the first of each class. The "Andrea Doria" was commissioned in December 2008 and the "Forbin" was commissioned in October 2010.

David 13 June 2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.181.124 (talk) 15:16, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Bean propulsor
I could not find any information regarding "bean propulsor" or "bean propulsion" apart from obvious quotes from the Wikipedia articles. Could someone explain what it is? Tupsumato (talk) 10:06, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It's actually supposed to be beam propulsor. I just fixed it.  Ninja138 (talk) 22:30, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I still can't find anything but science fiction with Google. I tried to look at the online references listed in the article, but they don't have anything either. Tupsumato (talk) 22:41, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Essentially, the beam propulsor is a bow thruster. It aids the ship manueverability by providing propulsion across the beam, especially in tight spaces such as during docking.  Whether the Horizon-class ships have a traditional bow thruster (impeller in a tunnel) or an externally mounted pod like an azimuth thruster is unknown.  If you look at the profile photos of Caio Duilio, you will notice an X inside a circle painted on the side; that's the internationally recognized symbol indicating the location of a bow thruster/propulsor.  Ninja138 (talk) 17:39, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I know what a bow thruster is, but I have never seen anyone referring to it as "beam propulsor". I guess that's clear then. Tupsumato (talk) 13:46, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

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asymmetric structure
it is claimed (not here, of course) that the left-right asymmetry reduces the RCS. it is possible to confirm this and give a simple explanation (I feel a destructive interference due to a different distance). pietro151.29.249.152 (talk) 08:38, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
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