Talk:Horizontal top-bar hive

Pictures
This article desperately needs pictures, I'll look for some open/free ones, but I don't know how likely I am to find any... --Kryptknight 02:20, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Wintering
I'd have to disagree with the statement in the "Location" section, about them not doing well in cold climates. I know of top bar beekeepers in Casper, WY as well as many similarly cold places, including mine here in Southeastern Nebraska. In my experience, they winter just as well as my Langstroth hives. Michael Bush 12:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

"Owing to the elongated horizontal configuration of the hive they are not generally believed to be appropriate for latitudes with severe winters." and yet according to Eva Crane (The World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting) horitzontal hives are now and have always been the most popular form of beehive from the Artic areas of Scandanavia to the desert areas of the Middle East to the tropical regions of Africa. As a matter of fact the long hive was still (at the time of publication of The World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting in 1999) the most common configuration in Russian, Scandanavian and Slovic countries. Stating or even implying that long hives cannot, have not and should not be used in Norhern climates is simply not a supportable statement. Michael Bush (talk) 15:42, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Queen Excluders
I think it is misleading to state that there is something unique about TBH causes them to not require a queen excluder and to imply that a Langstroth hive requires one. I haven't used queen excluders in my Langstroth hives for the last 32 years. They are not required at all, in any hive and I have always found them to be counterproductive. You can do without them in a TBH for the same reason you can do without them in a Langstroth hive. The bees want a consolidated brood nest. They are not looking to scatter brood everywhere. The fact that there is the amount of drone brood that the bees require in the brood nest (due to not using foundation) does contribute to a consolidated brood nest. Michael Bush 12:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

KTBH vs TTBH
I don't know of any beekeepers who have tried both who have reported any difference in the amount of attachments on the sides of the hive.Michael Bush 12:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

My 12" wide Tanzanian had attachments all the way down, while my 17" Tanz had almost none, but they tended to build off to one side, closer to a wall, rather than centrally. My 15" wide Kenyans have very little in the way of attachments: some hives have none; some a few. I suspect that the race of bee and the local climate may have an influence, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.84.61 (talk) 17:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Varroa Control
I'm sure it would stir up a lot of controversy to say so, but I find natural comb to be a sufficient deterrent to Varroa as well. http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm Michael Bush 12:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Management
Perhaps a section on Top Bar Hive management would be helpful? Of course every beekeeper uses different techniques, so staying objective gets complicated, but the three issues I would point out are:

o The need for frequent harvesting to keep space in the honey area open.

o The need for empty bars in the brood nest during prime "reproductive" swarm season to expand the brood nest more and prevent swarming.

o The need to have the cluster at one end of the hive at the beginning of winter (at least in Northern climates) so they don't work their way to one end and subsequently starve while leaving stores at the opposite end. This is easily done by simply moving the bars containing the cluster to one end and putting the bars they replaced at the other. Michael Bush 12:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Links
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm Michael Bush 12:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

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Legality in USA
The top-bar hive has gained acceptance in several countries of Africa, and is even used in the United States. Unfortunately it does not conform to the laws in many states including the USA, where Langstroth removable frame hives are required. Because of the importance of managing the many diseases and insects that now infest honeybees in the USA, it is more critical than ever that standard Langstroth equipment be used for brood chambers. However, the use of the Greek top-bar (GTB) principle for honey supers need not be excluded. The top-bar wooden hive body can be adapted to the dimensions of the standard Langstroth hive (SLH), and, as long as a queen excluder is placed between the brood chamber (SLH design) and the GTB hive body, honey comb can be drawn by the bees and the honeycomb removed at time of harvest. It is a less expensive way to provide space for the bees to make honey. However, the beekeeper should not forget that it takes 8.3 lbs of honey to make 1 lbs of bee's wax. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.160.225.10 (talk) 22:56, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I know of no state in the USA where Top Bar Hives are not allowed. Even in the few states who actually use the term "Langstroth" in their laws, the inspectors now, and always have, interpreted this to mean that they have removable (and therefore inspectable) combs, which Top Bar Hives have. Other types of hives, including British Standard etc. have always been assumed to meet the requirements in all 50 states because they are inspectable. Michael Bush (talk) 15:20, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

These comments should be formalized, cited, and added to the Legality section. As it stands, there is virtually nothing present on the page. I don't have the information or knowledge or else I would do this. Sigil VII (talk) 06:26, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Pollen allergies
I have trouble with the logic of honey being able to reduce local pollen allergies. Allergenic pollens are from wind-pollinated plants (grasses, ragweed, trees) not from insect-pollinated plants whose pollen bees collect. Goldenrod is wrongly blamed because it grows (and flowers) with ragweed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.112.59.152 (talk) 15:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Several new edits (some by me)
Oh, I wish we could move the mention of the Greek hive to a separate page, because it has practically NOTHING in common with the Kenyan or similar top-bar hives. So, it uses bars, but that's the only similarity. However, that is for later. For now, I've termed the Greek one "short" and the Kenyan one "long". Of course, mention would have to be made eventually of other long hives that show similarity with the TBHs (particularly with regard to the method of beekeeping), e.g. Dartington and Golz. -- leuce (talk) 21:58, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was moved. Leuce, I'll leave it to you to rewrite the lede accordingly. --BDD (talk) 23:47, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Top-bar hive → Horizontal top-bar hive – When the horizontal top-bar hive was developed in the 1960/1970s, there were no vertical top-bar hives in common use, and so it was called simply a "top-bar hive" in literature. Most books that mention "top-bar hive" refer to the horizontal top-bar hive that this article is currently about. However, since about a decade ago there has been a resurgence of stacked hives that use top-bars instead of frames, and these hives are often called "vertical top-bar hives". The beekeeping methods used in these vertical hives differ substantially from that of the horizontal hive, the vertical hives have a separate history, and the vertical hives have different advantages and disadvantages than the horizontal hives. About only thing that the vertical and horizontal hives have in common, is the use of top-bars. Unfortunately the term "vertical top-bar hive" is gaining ground, and advocates of such hives call their hives "top-bar hives" even though they are not the same type of hive that this article currently deals with. Renaming this page to "horizontal top-bar hive" will ensure that the content of the article remains about the particular hive and history and advantages and methods used with this hive. --Relisted. Xoloz (talk) 18:24, 8 March 2014 (UTC) leuce (talk) 16:35, 27 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Rename, as nominator: Other options that I considered were "horizontal hive", "African top-bar hive" and "developmental style top-bar hive". The problem with "horizontal hive" is that there are other horizontal hives that use similar methods of beekeeping as the horizontal top-bar hive, but which has a separate history and different advantages and disadvantages.  The problem with "African top-bar hive" is that although the hive was originally designed for use in Africa, the hive is currently used all over the world.  I think the most neutral term would be "horizontal top-bar hive". -- leuce (talk) 16:39, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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