Talk:Horn Concerto No. 1 (Mozart)

TODO list

 * NMA link
 * Instrumentation (which other concerto includes bassoon?)
 * Full description of "Solomon" reference
 * Citation for Tyson claim

Error?
The last sentence of the article says: David Jolley's recording of No. 1 with the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra on Deutsche Grammophon is paired with Charles Neiding's performance of the Clarinet Concerto, K. 622. - isn´t the performer of Mozart´s Clarinet concerto carinettist Charles Neidich? Vejvančický (talk) 16:42, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * FIXED. It is indeed Charles Neidich  Where are those green check marks when I need one? :-) DavidRF (talk) 17:51, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not a fan of these discography sections. Out of 50+ available recordings, it seems odd to single out a recording because it has odd coupling.  But, if you want more with odd coupling, here's another one: .DavidRF (talk) 17:51, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, the section is strange, and I think, it's not necessary to add these non-substantive informations to the article... However, Neidich is fantastic clarinettist, and he certainly deserves minor fix :)) Cheers! Vejvančický (talk) 19:44, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It is important to give some idea of how often the piece has been recorded. It is also the place to point out textual deviations, e.g., "von Schmuckler ignores the exposition repeat everyone else obeys." Jindřichův Smith (talk) 21:26, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Its just that there's always more recordings than are listed. One vendor lists 58 of them in print by 34 different horn players .  Because of repackaging it's likely between 34 and 58, but that's still a lot of recordings and does not count ones that are not available from that particular vendor.  These sections could grow unwieldy.  For other works its much more.  105 for the clarinet concerto, ~110 for the vc's 3-5, 164 for pc20, 185 for sym40 and 195 for sym41.  I don't mind the discography sections when they are small, and I'll leave them alone as long as they are small, but they just seem to have too much potential to grow out of control.DavidRF (talk) 22:28, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, especially by people who like to make a WP:POINT. Jindřichův Smith (talk) 22:35, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Relationship between K.412/K.386b and K.514
It is not clear from the article as written how the various versions fit together, particularly as regards the Rondo.

As I read it, and I may be mistaken, in the 1970s it was shown that the familiar version of the Rondo was actually a completion by Süssmayr after Mozart's death. Jeurissen [notes to Brilliant Classics' 170-CD Complete Mozart set] states that Süssmayr (probably with access only to some of the parts) diverged substantially from Mozart's sketches, including substituting a plainchant melody for Mozart's original theme in the central section. In the Brilliant Classics recording, there are two versions of the Rondo: firstly a reconstruction by Jeurissen, then a second version with Mozart's text (in Italian) spoken over the music.

So: two questions. Firstly, which version carried Mozart's text? It can hardly have been Süssmayr's completion (after Mozart's death), hence probably Mozart's original sketches (but then the probable target Leutgeb wouldn't have seen them). Secondly, which versions correspond to which Köchel catalogue numbers? In particular, is K.514 the Rondo as completed by Süssmayr? In any case, if the concerto is indeed from Mozart's last year, then its Köchel number seems very low (whether we refer to K.412, K.514 or K.386b). 86.13.158.235 (talk) 13:11, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, K. 514 is Süssmayr's completion of the Rondo (and as such shouldn't really be in the main body of the Köchel catalogue). Its Köchel number is indeed too low: for a long time it was thought to have been an earlier work. Süssmayr's completion does not have Mozart's text: it is in Mozart's original sketches. Double sharp (talk) 12:28, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, and also: I'm not exactly sure, not having a copy of the latest edition of the Köchel catalogue at hand, but I think that K. 386b refers to both movements, K. 412 refers to the first only, and K. 514 refers to Süssmayr's version of the Rondo. Double sharp (talk) 12:33, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Doubtful authenticity?
This paper by Benjamin Perl suggests based on stylistic and autographal evidence that K.412 may be Mozart's arrangement of a horn concerto by an unknown composer (who may have been Joseph Leutgeb himself). Double sharp (talk) 12:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

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 * Mozart; Horn Concerto No. 1 in D Major, K. 412- I. Allegro.ogg

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 * Mozart; Horn Concerto No. 1 in D Major, K. 412- II. Rondo (Allegro).ogg

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Composition date
The composition date is listed as 1791 (the year of Mozart's death) in the opening, and 1782 in the sidebar. Was 1782 the year in which this work was originally thought to be composed (hence the "No. 1" marking)? And which scholarship determined that the work was actually his last horn concerto? 130.44.146.34 (talk) 16:32, 28 February 2023 (UTC)