Talk:Hornblower in the West Indies

Promotion to Admiral by Seniority
I took out the following paragraph as irrelevant:

''In the Royal Navy of the early nineteenth century promotion from Captain to Admiral was based solely on seniority. Hornblower was promoted to Captain in 1805. Compare with the distinguished officer Lord Thomas Cochrane, who was promoted to Captain in 1801, and was not promoted to Rear-Admiral until 1832. Seniority wouldn't have brought promotion to Rear-Admiral to Hornblower until the late 1830s or later.''

Cochrane was convicted for fraud (wether fairly or not) and struck off the Navy List in 1814. He was not eligible for promotion until he got a pardon and a reinstatement in 1832 (at which time he was promoted to rear admiral). So he is not a valid comparison. Feel free to salvage whatever is useful. --Stephan Schulz 04:48, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I found another example and re-instated that paragraph. Edward Berry, appointed Captain 1797, Rear-Admiral 1821.  FWIW, I think these dates show that when Cochrane was re-instated his reinstatement must have been with his original seniority.  --  Geo Swan 14:24, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Out of interest I looked at the biographies of a number of well-known RN officers for the dates of their promotions to Post-Captain and then to Rear-Admiral, and calculated the interval between them - the results are below:


 * {| class="wikitable sortable" border="1"

! Name || Capt. || Adm. || Yrs.
 * + Promotion to Captain
 * Hornblower || 1805 || 1818 || 13
 * Anson || 1724 || 1744 || 20
 * Byron || 1746 || 1775 || 31
 * Middleton || 1758 || 1787 || 29
 * Jervis || 1760 || 1787 || 27
 * Gambier || 1778 || 1795 || 17
 * Nelson || 1779 || 1797 || 17
 * Calder || 1782 || 1799 || 17
 * Saumarez || 1782 || 1801 || 19
 * Pellew || 1782 || 1804 || 22
 * Ball || 1783 || 1799 || 16
 * Moore || 1794 || 1815 || 21
 * Pellew || 1795 || 1810 || 16
 * Bligh || 1796 || 1810 || 16
 * Berry || 1797 || 1821 || 24
 * Hardy || 1798 || 1825 || 27
 * Cochrane || 1801 || 1832 || 32
 * }
 * '''Avg. (not counting Hornblower) 22 years 4 months
 * Pellew || 1782 || 1804 || 22
 * Ball || 1783 || 1799 || 16
 * Moore || 1794 || 1815 || 21
 * Pellew || 1795 || 1810 || 16
 * Bligh || 1796 || 1810 || 16
 * Berry || 1797 || 1821 || 24
 * Hardy || 1798 || 1825 || 27
 * Cochrane || 1801 || 1832 || 32
 * }
 * '''Avg. (not counting Hornblower) 22 years 4 months
 * Berry || 1797 || 1821 || 24
 * Hardy || 1798 || 1825 || 27
 * Cochrane || 1801 || 1832 || 32
 * }
 * '''Avg. (not counting Hornblower) 22 years 4 months
 * }
 * '''Avg. (not counting Hornblower) 22 years 4 months

This seems to show that Hornblower's elevation to flag-rank was extraordinarily rapid. C. Northcote Parkinson in his 'biography' of Hornblower puts this down to the fact that he was a member (even if only by marriage) of the influential Wellesley family. That said another famous fictional officer - Patrick O'Brian's "Jack Aubrey" - was made Post-Captain in 1804 and Admiral in 1816 - in only 12 years! -- dawkeye 21:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I added some more officers to the list. Our nautical fiction authors emphasis that the promotion from Captain to Admiral was strictly by seniority.  But the dates for Calder, Saumarez, Pellew and Ball diverge from that pattern.  Bligh had his promotion backdated.  to 1810, when he was actually promoted in 1811.  I read a biography of Bligh some decades ago that said he had to forgo his scheduled promotion to Admiral to take up his appointment as Governor of New South Wales.


 * Including the new individuals the average age is 21 years, 11 months. Geo Swan (talk) 06:53, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Someone mistakenly "corrected" Hornblower's reasonable date of promotion to mid-1920s. I changed it back.  Geo Swan (talk) 17:28, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

unsupported {merge} suggestion
User:ColourBurst suggested merging HMS Crab (fictional Hornblower vessel) into this article. They didn't offer any reasons as to why this would be a good idea.

Personally, I think it is a bad idea. Cheers! -- Geo Swan 17:25, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * There are lots of fictional ships from well-known novels, movies, or televion shows, that have articles written about them.
 * The Hornblower article has a section devoted to Hornblower's ships. HMS Crab is not the most important vessel HH sailed on.  But, the existence of a reproduction of a similar vessel, where interested readers can read about what sailing on an RN vessel of this size would really be like, makes her suitable for an article.

Very interesting discussion. Of course, let's remember we are dealing with fiction. In reading fiction, the public really doesn't care how accurate all of the details are, just as long as they have an exciting adventure to read. The reading public is gratified at Hornblower's rapid promotion with each daring adventure.

The Rev. J.C. Russell

Also writes: Has anyone ever attempted to write more sequels to these novels or proposed any spin-off characters and write about these?

69.68.95.170 12:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Date correction
Original Quote: "This one takes place when Britain is at peace, 1818–1821."

This can't be correct. The book starts with the chase after the "Daring". When Hornblower achieves to persuade the crew that Napoleon died one month ago, and a few days later learns that this lie was actually true, this must have been ca. May 30th 1821, as Napoleon died May 5th 1821. So the first chapter begins ca. End of April / beginning of May 1821. Additionally, Hornblower mentions in the beginning that it has been 6 years since Waterloo.

A map on the last page of the book shows Hornblower's voyages from June 1794 to October 1923. This matches the lenght of his service as rear-admiral in the West Indies, so the book ends Oct. 1823.

I corrected the date. Olagorie (talk) 17:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)