Talk:Horseshoe bat/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 11:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

I'll do this one. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your time! Enwebb (talk) 16:19, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Comments
The article is well-constructed and cited, so I shall have only a few minor comments to make.


 * "which resemble horseshoes." By being large, heavy, and made of iron? Perhaps reword "which are shaped like horseshoes."
 * rephrased
 * "the litter size is one individual." Perhaps could be better worded, specially for the lead.
 * rephrased
 * "There are records of various species being used" Perhaps "Some species are used".
 * rephrased
 * "as well as the species now in Hipposideros." Perhaps add "(roundleaf bats)".
 * rephrased
 * "a few other attempted to split Rhinolophus" needs editing.
 * rephrased


 * The discussion of clades and the tangled taxonomic history makes an "internal" (inside the family) cladogram very desirable. Why not use Demos et al 2019.
 * Demos et al. 2019 is only the African clade, which is only one of the six subgenera given in Csorba et al. 2003. I'm looking if there's a reasonably complete, reasonably recent publication with cladograms.
 * It would also be helpful to have an "external" cladogram simplified from the one in Bat (maybe I'll add that one).
 * Thanks for adding one. I revised it somewhat to have a more complete representation of Rhinolophoidea.
 * A photo of a fossil would be useful, if one of the CC-by-SA papers has one.
 * Found an illustration of the jaws--added
 * Is that a fossil or recently extinct? The geological age would be helpful. Also, names often change: is that Victorian era name still current?
 * Fossil. The Plate description (Planche 1) captions it as "Maxillaires superieur et inferieur de Palaeonycteris robustus, grossis 3 fois --Collection Pomel" and Pomel is given as the authority of the genus. I added a more recent citation (1992) that lists Palaeonycteris as the "sole fossil genus" of Rhinolophidae. I give the Lower Eocene as the age in the text. Do you mean adding that also to the image caption? Enwebb (talk) 16:58, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh good. Yes, "Lower Eocene" would be helpful in the caption.


 * "Most have low or very low aspect ratios, which relates wingspan to wing area. Higher aspect ratios are associated with faster flight speed.[16] Their wings are broad and rounded at the tips.[15]" Sentence 3 repeats sentence 1. All this says that the wings are exceptionally broad for their length, making them slow but extremely agile; it would be desirable to find a source that says this in so many words. This ought really to be related to their lifestyle as described in Diet and foraging.
 * I've moved this content to the diet and foraging section and expanded a bit. Enwebb (talk) 16:19, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * It would be very desirable to have an image comparing a horseshoe bat's silhouette (i.e. mainly the wing outline) to, say, a vesper bat's.
 * I decided to go for a more visually dramatic comparison between it and free-tailed bats. Comparative silhouette added.
 * It's very effective, thanks.


 * The coronavirus origins from ref #29, Luk et al 2019, would be well worth graphing, I'd suggest as a horizontal bar-chart, with the longest bar for 30-Chinese rufous horseshoe bat, the other bars decreasing beneath it.
 * Many thanks. I've tried dropping the Latin extra labels in parentheses; see what you think.
 * That looks better, thanks.
 * Perhaps Coronaviruses should be a section heading, in which case we'd also have a heading "Other" for the other viruses.
 * split


 * List of species: I'm a bit dubious of the value of listing species in a family article; the groupings are unstable, the matter overlaps with the Evolution/taxonomy sections, and the citation status is fragmentary - indeed, the grouping and use of multiple sources could be read as WP:OR by synthesis. I'd have thought all of this much better left to Commons and categories really. A properly sourced cladogram down to the current species groups would say all that needs to be said.
 * What would you think of splitting this off into a daughter article, List of horseshoe bats? Part of the reason the citation status is fragmented as I was primarily going off of MSW3, but many horseshoe bats have been described since then, requiring alternate sourcing. The other reason this is a bit of a mess is because I wrote and reorganized that section back in 2017 when I had only been editing for a few months, so I agree, it isn't great. I agree with removing it, but I think a list would be a good alternative (along with adding a cladogram here). Enwebb (talk) 16:19, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Good idea. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:20, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

OK, I think that's all done. I hope you are pleased with the result and will consider reviewing another GAN or two. It seems a worthy GA to me. By the way, the coronavirus link would make an excellent hook for a DYK to put this on Wikipedia's front page. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:15, 3 March 2020 (UTC)