Talk:Hospitaller commandery of Saint-Jean-d'Acre

Oldest known Western fleur-de-lis?
This had been claimed, and it looks possible. Probably less so, or harder to prove, would be a Holy Land origin of the fleur-de-lis. I could find no reliable source for either theory.

The discussion should take place on the Talk:Fleur-de-lis page, so please go there before writing anything here. Thanks, Arminden (talk) 15:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Solved, see Zitadelle (Akkon): Johanniterkommende: Südflügel. Academic-level work in German art.! Arminden (talk) 16:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Oldest known Gothic cross rib vault?
So claimed in the German article, refectorium section, unfortunately unsourced. Anyone?

Pls. mind: Gothic cross vault. Muslim, Roman and Romanesque examples are much older. Arminden (talk) 15:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)