Talk:Host and hostess clubs

Merge with Host Bar
I think this should be merged with the Host Bar article, using "hostess bar" as the title as they are the more common and established of the two. Drcwright 03:23, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't think so. It looks like "host club" is pretty much a Japan phenomenon and doesn't represent a world view.  Whereas hostess bars are in many different countries.


 * Oh. If so, then I'm with ya. I just assumed this was referring to hostess bars in Japan. There are other countries where hostess bars are common (besides Japanese ones in other countries, of course)? What countries?


 * There doesn't really seem to be enough to keep the Host Club article on its own. The article is also poorly written. Written properly, it can fit in this article.

merged
I merged host club into this. Did some copyediting, still needs a lot more. And more content. Drcwright 01:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Not to revive a dead subject, but since the host club section is significantly long than the hostess club section, either the hostess club section needs expansion or the article should be renamed to host club? Zharmad (talk) 02:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

History, health, cultures, etc.
This article needs some content on the history of host(ess) bars, as well something on the possible health effects of such a line of work. Also, some mention of the different countries in which they are prominent Drcwright 03:17, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes. the article says when the first Host bar was established, but not when the first Hostess bar. Are we to presume that hostess bars have been around since the Allied occupation? Were there any during the war or before? 173.206.74.159 (talk) 00:47, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Lots of Problems
I don't know if people are following naming conventions, but "hostess bar" is not the right term. It's "hostess club." Second, there's a difference between ホステスクラブ and キャバクラ, the former being classier, the latter being trashier. (You're more likely to get explicit sexual talk (猥談), more revealing clothing, and greater tolerance for light fondling in a キャバクラ than in a ホステスクラブ.) (How do I know these things? I was a salaryman in Japan.) There's also another type of establishment called a "snack," which is far more common than either hostess clubs or kyabakura. They're all similar, though, and should probably be grouped under 水商売.

A few other problems:


 * Strip clubs have touts. Hostess clubs don't (male or female).
 * Hostess clubs have male bartenders and male waiters. While all three (hostess clubs, "snacks," and kyabakura) have a "mama-san," only in a "snack" is she the one pouring the drinks.
 * Douhan is something more experienced girls do. A good mama-san won't let a wet-behind-the-ears newbie go out alone with a male customer.
 * Customers can choose the girl they want any time they want ... for a fee (it's called 指名料).
 * Host clubs exist everywhere, not just Tokyo, and Kabukicho is famous for things other than host clubs.

Note that none of these above are 100%. Each establishment has its own rules and its own style. The above are general guidelines for definitions.

Oops! Forgot to sign. Madler 18:21, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I was viewing the use of hostess bar to include ホステスクラブ and キャバクラ and スナックバー. This is mainly because I asked my girlfriend what the difference between "hostess club" and "snack bar" and she said they're (basically) same thing. I asked her because she's been a hostess and owned her own hostess bar (Japanese, not a foreigner). However, the nuances between them should be explained – either in this "catch-all" article, or in the mizu shobai (水商売) article (which itself needs help from a more informed contributor). Drcwright 17:43, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think I've ever heard the term "snack bar" (just "snack"), and the problem with the three is that they are basically the same thing, but there's no general term covering them all, except for 水商売, which is too general a term, covering an entire Venn diagram of overlapping industries, sub-cultures, and nocturnal wanderings. So, what would you even call an article like this?


 * That Gordian knot aside, I think the article needs some revision. Would you (=Drcwright and whoever else) mind? (I wouldn't be able to do it before January, though.) Madler 18:21, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I will try to work on it over the next week, but I'm moving back on the 29th and leaving my laptop for repairs in Canada. I've worked on it so far, but it's still in pretty bad shape. What it also needs is the role these establishments play in business and social life. I didn't really hit up the hostess scene when I lived there before (and probably won't this time round) so I'm not really sure of the difference between a hostess club and a snack. I did find a good article though that I think can be of value World of hosts and hostesses. One important question I think that needs to be addressed though is what to call the article. Is hostess bar good enough? Or should it all be under mizu shobai (which itself needs work). One thing for certain, I don't think they necessitate separate articles. I'm leaning toward putting them all under mizu shobai, however that would discount any dicussion of "hostess bars" in other countries (ex: Korea). Drcwright 01:26, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I would say there is quite a distinction between a "snack" and a "hostess bar". The "snack" bar is usually a smaller institution, pretty much a small room with a bar with the mamasan and possibly another waitress, and probably owned and ran by the mamasan. The mamasan, usually conservatively dressed will stay behind the bar and talk to the customers from there. A hostess bar is bigger, with a bigger selection of (preferably scantily dressed) waitresses/hostesses that come to the table to talk to the customer. The ownership of a hostess bar is usually murkier than that of a snack.
 * Of course this is an archetypical delineation (based on my own observations, too), and in real life anything between these two is possible, but saying that a hostess bar and a snack are basically the same is way off, IMO. I'd say putting all of this under the "mizu shoubai" article as suggested would be a good start. The mizu shoubai article as it is now would direly need a clearcut history vs. present time distinction, and snacks, hostess bars and kyabakura can then be dealt with in the present time part of the article, and the onsen geisha and the like in the history part.
 * Just a question out of personal interest: when exactly did the kyabakura start popping up? Last time I was to Japan was four years ago, and I don't remember them being around at the time. Or did I just miss them? TomorrowTime 15:44, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Is there anyone who can find a reference for these being refered to as buymedrinkie bars? I know when I was in the far east, EVERYONE called them that, never was it called a hostess club, but I think it is primarily a military lingo. I would like to find a reference for it so this can be a little more accurated. Andishouldabeengone 11:13, 9 April 2007


 * Never heard that term in my life. MightyAtom 01:10, 10 April 2007 (

If you never heard that term in your life then perhaps you need to go to Okinawa and not stay insulated by the posh part of Japan's that I am sure you are accustomed to. Plenty of guys in the military call it that. "Studying" Japan might not indicate that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.72.137.221 (talk) 22:39, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

ive heard of juicy bars but not buymedrinkie bars. and juicy bars and hostess bars are not tha same.as juicy bars are more of a prostituion spot as hostess bars are not.

I've never heard "buymedrinkie" before either; and I have been to Okinawa many times. However, each to his own. When I go out into mizu shobai, I'm not looking for places with cheap drinks and low entry fees. 219.101.196.2 (talk) 10:03, 2 February 2013 (UTC)Vainamoinen

Merge into mizu shobai
Anyone else (dis)agree with merging this into the mizu shobai article? Discuss on mizu shobai talk Drcwright 23:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

A reference for host bar (or at least service for women in japan)

 * /mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/ Mathmo Talk 03:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * In hindsight this seems more applicable to the Soapland article, which I hadn't seen before. Mathmo Talk 03:32, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

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Plural article name
recently moved this article from to, citing WP:SINGULAR. I disagree with this move; the problem is that there is no single entity as a "host and hostess club" (that caters to to both men and women), only a "host club" or a "hostess club". So while I would agree with using the singular if there were separate articles located at and, I don't think a singular makes sense for this combined article. (I'm also not arguing that this article should be split; seems like they were merged a long time ago, and I don't think separate articles really would be particularly useful.) Unfortunately neither WP:SINGULAR nor WP:PLURAL specifically address this case, so I don't know if there's a clear precedent here. --Pokechu22 (talk) 19:41, 27 December 2021 (UTC)


 * In hindsight I agree that WP:SINGULAR isn't exactly applicable in this instance. I've reverted the move; thanks for letting me know. —  RAVEN PVFF   · talk · 23:07, 27 December 2021 (UTC)