Talk:Hostomel Airport

Hostomel i.o. Gostomel
Wouldn't it be appropriate to move this article from the existing G ostomel to  H ostomel to reflect more properly the Ukrainian pronunciation of Гостомель, as г is an h  in this language (except in very few cases)? ✓ Kanġi Oĥanko (talk) 18:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I also think that is right since г is h in ukrainian.(Cjwon348 (talk) 23:22, 22 January 2009 (UTC))

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv (talk) 11:14, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Hostomel Airport → — As per WP:ENGLISH Gostomel Airport is the established name for this airport in English. Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 08:30, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Any proof that Gostomel is more commonly used in English than Hostomel ? Also, does it matter anything that the airport's been officially renamed Antonov years ago? Garik 11 (talk) 09:08, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment In general, no. For example, Timor-Leste's official name is Timor-Leste, but that article is at East Timor, because it is an established name in English, and on English WP it is English-language usage which we go by. --Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 09:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Support Google results for Gostomel give 113,000 results, whilst results for Hostomel give only 6,830 results, with a big ironic notice saying Did you mean: gostomel airport. The International Civil Aviation Organization uses Gostomel Airport, and it is this organizaion that most take their queues from. The Ukranian US embassy also used G. As does NATO. As does the Ukrainian President.. It is clear that whilst Hostomel may represent pronounciation of the airport's name in Ukrainian, this is English Wikipedia, and we reflect established English language usage, and that established usage is Gostomel. --Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 09:12, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

✅ and Support. Enough reason has been given. Garik 11 (talk) 09:47, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose (at this stage) The Google results quoted are meaningless.  The very first hit is a Wikipedia page under Hostomel Airport, which should suggest that the search parameters are seriously flawed!  A search in English for Hostomel Airport excluding Wikipedia, Gostomel and Antonov gives 85 hits; a search for Gostomel Airport excluding Wikipedia, Hostomel and Antonov gives 706 hits; a search for Antonov Airport excluding Wikipedia, Gostomel and Hostomel gives 258 hits.  On that basis, it appears that Gostomel Airport remains the most common use in English.  However, the alternative spelling should be included in the opening paragraph.  The examples of usage quoted are less than convincing: the first lists a string of airports including Lvov, whereas we use Lviv, and other obsolete spellings; while the next two are written in what can best be described as pidgin English and are the same article from different websites.  Given the small numbers shown by the Google search, I think we are entitled to ask whether there is a widely used name in English.  Romanization states If an entity has a widely accepted conventional English name, that name is to be used. For example, do not transliterate Москва as Moskva, but use "Moscow". For more, see Wikipedia: Naming conventions (use English); this, and the individual conventions cited below, are generally consensus among Wikipedians, and the central ideas, summarized in Wikipedia:Naming conventions, are policy.  In other words, if there is no widely used English name, we need to consider how to transliterate the Ukrainian name.  Naming conventions (Cyrillic) states If a name or word has a conventional English spelling, that is used (see #Conventional names, below); In linguistics topics, scholarly transliteration is used; Otherwise, the conventional transliteration method for a language is used (see below)  It continues For Ukrainian: Use simplified BGN/PCGN romanization. Official Ukrainian place names are defined by the Ukrainian National system of 1996.  Romanization of Ukrainian advises The Ukrainian National system of 1996 defines official place names in Ukraine, and is used by the United Nations. Some places are also known by familiar or traditional English forms, or names derived from other languages, and refers to Romanization of Ukrainian/National transliteration table, which would give Hostomel.
 * So far, the case has not been made that any name is in common use in English for the airport. It shouldn't be too difficult to find examples written in good English from authoritative sources, surely.  It is an airport, after all!  But unless examples are forthcoming, the case to support a move has not been made.  Skinsmoke (talk) 02:42, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know how you do the searches, but this gives 15,800 results for Gostomel, 4,560 results for Hostomel. Also, it is best not to omit Antonov, because Gostomel Airport is where Aviant is based which produces Antonov aircraft. This gives 5,100 results for Hostomel, and 91,000 results for Gostomel. It is clear that Gostomel Airport is the established name for the airport in English. The romanisation guidelines you mention above are only used when there is not an established name in English. It is why Kiev is at Kiev and not Kyiv, and why Saint Petersburg is at Saint Petersburg and not Sankt Petersburg. --Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 04:55, 28 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Support Thanks for that Russavia.  I accept your point about Antonov.  The method for the Google search was included above.  The difference with your own appears to be that I searched for the exact phrases Hostomel Airport and Gostomel Airport, whereas your search for Hostomel plus Airport would produce any article that just happened to have those two words somewhere on the page.  The revised search gives 603 hits for Hostomel Airport and 6,410 for Gostomel Airport, which I think is pretty convincing.  Skinsmoke (talk) 10:28, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.