Talk:Hot-bulb engine

The last manufacturer, who was it?
The article says: "he last large-scale manufacturer of hot bulb engines stopped producing them in the 1950s and they are now virtually extinct in commercial use, except in very remote areas of the developing world." but it doesn't say WHO that manufacturer was, or how we know they still exist in the remote areas. I think this sentence needs a footnote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimindc (talk • contribs) 02:55, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Differences from a Diesel engine
It should be mentioned that the injection pressure of the fuel is much lower than in a diesel engine. For this reason injection pumps for hot bulb engines could be built while R. Diesel had to use air induction. There is another significant difference: The combustible mixture of fuel and air develops continuously during the comression cycle by evaporation in the hot bulb. The ignition timing is more or less coincidential with the upper dead center, the compression heat is not deciding as comression ratio is not much higher than in an otto (spark ignition)engine. The tractor manufacturer Lanz in germany kept stuck with this engine type and developed it into the direction of a diesel engine by increasing the compression ratio and establishing electrical pre-heating devices in the 1950ies, but finally the market decided against it. Lanz was purchased by John Deere, quickly replacing the old engines by adapted american models. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.144.53.76 (talk • contribs) 13:31, 5 September 2007

Types
what is the difference between a hot bulb type and an oilfield type. Viscosity of fuel, gaseous vs tar? manifolds? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.76.183 (talk) 18:04, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Coal
""and even in some cases coal dust were used in hot-bulb engines. ""

Any references???Wdl24.146.23.84 (talk) 23:28, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

importance
Historically this engine is very important. See diesel engines quote:


 * """Early fuel injection systems
 * The modern diesel engine is a combination of two inventors' creations. In all major aspects, it holds true to Rudolf Diesel's original design, that of igniting fuel by compression at an extremely high pressure within the cylinder. With much higher pressures and high technology injectors present-day diesel engines use the so-called solid injection system invented by Herbert Akroyd Stuart for his hot bulb engine."


 * Ignoring the obvious differences the modern Glow Plug indirect injection engine could be considered the latest reincarnation of these "hot bulb" ignition based engines.<[2]>.


 * Solid injection raises the fuel to extreme pressures by mechanical pumps and delivers it to the combustion chamber by pressure-activated injectors. With direct injected diesels, injectors spray fuel through six or more small orifices in its nozzle .Diesel's original engine injected fuel with the assistance of compressed air, which atomized the fuel and forced it into the engine through a nozzle (a similar principle to an aerosol spray). This is called an air-blast injection."""

Wdl24.146.23.84 (talk) 23:53, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Unformatted references
The following "references" were added recently.

As they need considerable formatting to be presentable, were in the wrong section ('See also') and some are non-English, I have moved them here for others to peruse and re-apply appropriately.


 * 1) http://www.debinnenvaart.nl/binnenvaarttaal/afbeeldingen/onderdelen/motoren/kromhout-plakboek2.html
 * 2) * mostly pictures 
 * 3) http://www.findoldtractors.com/library/shell_landbouwtractoren/A15_A17.shtml - 21k -
 * 4) * ''in Dutch but could be useful ref
 * 5) http://www.wochenblatt.com/FaszinationLandtechnik/bilder/pdf/3106_Motoren.pdf -
 * 6) * ''in German but includes some interesting diagrams
 * 7) http://www.worldofstock.com/closeups/PHI3398.php - 20k -
 * 8) * Commercial photo-selling site
 * 9) Steam & Engine of Australia
 * 10) * not obviously relevant to page
 * 11) http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Diesel_engine
 * 12) * possible WP mirror
 * 13) http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Diesel_engine
 * 14) * definite WP mirror (actually bothers to say so!)
 * 15) http://nhzzs.blogspot.com/2008/05/rudolf-diesel-ermordet-als.html
 * 16) *  Alternative Nachrichten 
 * 17) * covers errors about ir. Diesel in german

hot bulb references
the references in the artile contain all the proof you need but you must read them all. just to quote each other with the wrong info does not work. also to go to school or university my teach you to use references pictures and drawings rather than a wrong second hand description. thinking before deleting or contacting the originator may help.Wdl1961 (talk) 15:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * moved from User talk:Sladen
 * Hello Wdl1961, thank you for your contributions to the Hot bulb engine article. If you know that an existing reference covers a second part of the article, you can use   (note the closing '/' slash).  This will then match it up to a pre-existing reference of the same name.  It is crucial that Wikipedia remains verifiable (see WP:VERIFY), as such the best way to answer the addition of a citation needed link is by matching it up to a reference;  either from searching the web, or pointing to an existing reference.  Once again, thank you for contributing to Wikipedia!  —Sladen (talk) 15:20, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

please remove our toystore items from a technical article hot bulb. please do not remove referenced items and leave your Wdl1961 (talk) 03:44, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * also moved from User talk:Sladen

are you aftraid to establish a record???Wdl1961 (talk) 03:46, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello again Wdl1961, I'm finding it a little hard to follow what you're referring to. Could you perhaps try using an alternative wording to help me understand what you mean by "toystore items".  —Sladen (talk) 04:16, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

- ""Revision as of 18:57, 7 December 2008 (edit) (undo)Sladen (Talk | contribs) ("reference" fails WP:VERIFY .Undid revision 256428398 by Wdl1961 (talk))Next edit → Line 107: Line 107:

1910/1950s
- Direct injected small diesel engines still were not practical and the prechambered indirect injected engine was invented needing glowplugs for starting. ref>Harry Ricardo, British motor engineer who established Ricardo Consulting Engineers Harry Ricardo art has ref info in it.

Wdl1961 (talk) 03:59, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm having difficulty following what you are attempting to describe, or the question you might be asking. If you want to refer to a particular revision, or change, you can click the History tab, then select a particular revision (for example, like this or this) and paste that URL into the Talk page.  —Sladen (talk) 11:17, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

the references in the artile contain all the proof you need but you must read them all. just to quote each other with the wrong info does not work. also to go to school or university my teach you to use references pictures and drawings rather than a wrong second hand description. thinking before deleting or contacting the originator may help.Wdl1961 (talk) 15:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Wdl1961 (talk) 14:16, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

fotograph ref
fotograph refs and drawings from multiple sources are not more reliable than third parties quotes and opinions under wiki rules ??Wdl1961 (talk) 02:20, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The Wikipedia policy on what is admissible is WP:VERIFY. —Sladen (talk) 11:19, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

British English?
Wdl1961 (talk) 03:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm having difficulty following what question you are asking; could you perhaps try phrasing it in a different way?   —Sladen (talk) 11:20, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * the references in the artile contain all the proof you need but you must read them all . just to quote each other with the wrong info does not work. ::also to go to school or university my teach you to use references pictures and drawings rather than a wrong second hand description. thinking before deleting or contacting the originator may help.Wdl1961 (talk) 15:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Wdl1961 (talk) 14:12, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm still lost. What point are you trying to make?  I and other editors have previously deleted unsuitable material that does not meet the policies of WP:OR and WP:VERIFY.  —Sladen (talk) 14:24, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

""first two self-powered"" where in ref???<
The United Kingdom's first two self-powered "motor" narrowboats—Cadbury's Bournville I and Bournville II in 1911

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Wdl1961 (talk • contribs) Wdl1961 (talk) 16:14, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I'm completely lost as to what you're asking about. You've quoted some material, but not stated a question, or issue you'd like to raise about it.  (Perhaps you could try rewording your question/answer/point/query so that it contains one or more verbs, as I'm having difficult following.  Many Thanks, —Sladen (talk) 03:46, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

""first two self-powered""

where in ref???

Wdl1961 (talk) 03:59, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

PLEASE DO NOT DESTROY RECORDS

Wdl1961 (talk) 04:07, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

entropy ???

Wdl1961 (talk) 04:16, 8 February 2009 (UTC) \\\QED)

Wdl1961 (talk) 04:41, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

-
 * Wdl1961: you appear to be randomly copying and pasting and without apparent purpose. Could you please either clear it up, or revert yourself and ask for assistance in doing whatever it is that you're trying to do.  —Sladen (talk) 05:11, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

---
 * the references in the artile contain all the proof you need but you must read them all . just to quote each other with the wrong info does not work. ::also to go to school or university my teach you to use references pictures and drawings rather than a wrong second hand description. thinking before deleting or contacting the originator may help.Wdl1961 (talk) 15:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

repeat again

Wdl1961 (talk) 05:29, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

PLS DONOT EDIT; REINSERTION

It is not in any provided reference, which is why it says "[citation needed]".

Wdl1961 (talk) 16:38, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

--
 * [[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|25px]] Wdl1961: Please do not add other editors' signatures to things they have not written. Thank you.  —Sladen (talk) 16:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

ORIGINAL TEXT BELOW

Line 123: entropy ??? entropy ???

Wdl1961 (talk) 04:16, 8 February 2009 (UTC) Wdl1961 (talk) 04:16, 8 February 2009 (UTC) + :::It is not in any provided reference, which is why it says "[citation needed]". + \\\QED)

+   + Wdl1961 (talk) 04:41, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Wdl1961 (talk) 17:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

--
 * Wdl1961: What is the question? —Sladen (talk) 17:39, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I think he is requesting a citation for the "first two self-powered" part of the sentence and wants to see a quoted passage from the book cited at the end of the sentence. Munci (talk) 16:17, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

other details.
The diesel engine needs the maximum heat for starting from cold after that a lower compression could be used but there is no really practical way of reducing the compression. The hot bulb engine was supplied with the initial starting heat and would then run satisfactorily on the lower compression.

The last generation of hot bulb engines were quite sophisticated. Bolinders last series of hot bulb engines used internal hot plugs rather than the better known external. Conversion kits were also offered where the initial starting heat was supplied by an electric heating plug. After starting the electrical power was turned off and the internal heating plug then functioned as the internal heating surface.

Electric heating plugs were also fitted in some commercial diesel engines as an aid to starting.AT Kunene (talk) 14:37, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Half Breed engines
At the height of the steam age Otto finally managed to deduce an internal combustion heat cycle. For a short period of time there were kits produced to convert a steam engine into an internal combustion engine allowing allowing the boiler to be scrapped. These were known as "half breed" engines.

As a steam engine didn't usually have a closed crankcase most of the conversions were valved two strokes and used a hot bulb system of ignition.AT Kunene (talk) 12:53, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

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Removal of compression ignition section
I have removed the "Compression ignition" section, because, frankly speaking, it was nothing but utter rubbish. One of the hot-bulb engine's key characteristics is that it does not have compression ignition. The text implied that the "[compression ignition] system was patented in October 1890". Akroyd had two British patents, 7146 (8 May 1890), and 15994 (8 October 1890). Regarding injection timing, the former remains vague: "…at the desired part of this compression stroke, the supply of liquid hydrocarbon is forced, in a spray form, on to the heated vaporiser, which almost instantly changes it into a gas…" – so basically, all we get is "at the desired part of this compression stroke", which means that the fuel is injected somewhere during the compression stroke. The patent does not say that the fuel is injected "only when the piston reaches top dead centre", as the article read. The later patent reads: "The chief object of our present invention is to provide means, whereby the necessary quantities of combustible vapour or gas and of air may be drawn in during the suction or outstroke of the piston, notwithstanding that a permanent igniter is employed…" This is also a vague description of the injection timing, but it definitely contradicts "injection at top dead centre", it literally says "suction or outstroke of the piston". It also describes that the igition system works by employing a "permanent igniter", which is not how compression ignition works.

After some book-diving, I found a pretty devastating statement: „Die These (…), der Akroyd-Motor habe bereits die Verdichtungszündung an Stelle der Funkenzündung angewendet, ist nicht haltbar“ (The theory that the Akroyd engine used compression ignition instead of spark-ignition, is not tenable) (F. Sass, Geschichte de Deutschen Verbrennungsmotorenbaues von 1860 bis 1918, Springer, Berlin/Heidelberg 1962, ISBN 978-3-662-11843-6, p. 421). The US patent 845140 (was also mentioned in the section) does exist, it was granted, and the patent holder is Herbert Akroyd Stuart. The problem however is that the patent does not describe a compression ignition engine. The drawings make it immediately obvious; for a compression ignition engnine, the combustion chamber surface is way too large.

The claim that Akroyd Stuart developed a hot-bulb engines with a compression ratio of 18 : 1 and compression ignition, needed a citation for a reason – it was nothing but original research and falsification of history. Mixing figment with fact doesn't render the figment fact. Best regards, --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 20:18, 17 October 2020 (UTC)