Talk:Hotspot Ecosystem Research and Man's Impact On European Seas

Disclosure of interest
I am participating in and posting about the HERMIONE project, an EU-funded (FP7) project that is researching “hotspot” ecosystems in the deep-seas around Europe. Hotspot ecosystems are those that have a higher-than-background level of biodiversity, and include submarine canyons, seamounts, chemosynthetic environments and cold-water coral reefs, all of which are found in Europe’s deep sea. It is important to raise awareness in the general public about the deep-sea and how man may be affecting it in order to facilitate the development of effective ocean management strategies to preserve these ecosystems for future generations. We would like to contribute to raising awareness by posting information on Wikipedia about these hotspots, and what research is being carried out on them to find out how they work and what challenges they face.

The results of any research resulting from the project will not be posted here until they have been published in peer-reviewed journals. Hermione p (talk) 10:25, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for this disclosure, it puts to rest several misgivings I had about this article. It sounded as if you were new to Wikipedia and was unfamiliar with our policies. I am particularly glad to hear that you will not be publishing any results until they appear in peer reviewed journals. As a physics student, scientific ethics are very important to me. Happy editing,RadManCF (talk) 22:59, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Original Research
I stumbled onto this article while reading the administrator's noticeboard. A debate there seemed to indicate that this article was created in order to provide information and publicity about an ongoing research project. According to WP:NOT, this is an improper use for for Wikipedia. While a description of the project and its objectives are welcomed, please do not add any findings of this project until they appear in peer-reviewed journals.RadManCF (talk) 22:50, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you RadManCF, we do not intend to post findings from the project until they are properly published Hermione p (talk) 10:25, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Notability
Yes, this is notable enough in its field to merit an article. Oceanography is the official magazine of the Oceanography Society; the March 2009 issue was dedicated to the predecessor project HERMES (then just completing), with the final article devoted to its successor HERMIONE (then just beginning) — and said article's PDF is linked here in the references. Several other articles are cited/linked here. You can click on the Google and Scholar links above to find more... and please consider adding to the article. No Books hits yet, because this is a newly started project. — Sizzle Flambé (☎/✍) 07:52, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a cool project! I didn't see an article for HERMES. maybe we should write that one too. Burpelson AFB (talk) 21:54, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed, with most of the above issue's articles as evidence of notability: "Hotspot Ecosystems Research on the Margins of European Seas"; redirects at "Project HERMES", "HERMES project", and "HERMES Project" (parallel to "Project HERMIONE" etc). — Sizzle Flambé (☎/✍) 23:45, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've created the above as a raw bare stub to build upon. Of course, it desperately needs to be filled in. — Sizzle Flambé (☎/✍) 01:25, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello, I was also involved as a researcher in the HERMES project. Can I write the article, or will it raise COI tags again?  I'm happy to do it as I have all the information! Hermione p (talk) 09:44, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Tone
I removed the notability tag since there are tons of independent sources. I also removed the conflict of interest tag since this is a mainstream scientific project, not a for-profit enterprise and there's nothing here the author could really push a pov about. I did add a tag for the tone of the article, since much of the language is not encyclopedic, but it can easily be edited. Burpelson AFB (talk) 22:00, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not accurate at all, to say that something that is a "mainstream scientific project" and "not a for-profit enterprise" can't have a POV pushed. Pretty much any subject can have a POV pushed on it. This is a climate change-related article, after all. ;) Having said that, I don't disagree with the removal of the COI tag here. --  At am a  頭 01:16, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Atama. Statements such as "It is important to raise awareness in the general public about the deep-sea and how man may be affecting it in order to facilitate the development of effective ocean management strategies to preserve these ecosystems for future generations." seem like indicators of POV to me.RadManCF (talk) 23:55, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess, but I think the previous wording was more to do with someone not knowing how to write in an encyclopedic tone. I'm guessing he/she is probably a PR person, or someone with PR or marketing experience, or someone just not familiar with Wikipedia writing style. POV pushing, to me, implies bad intent, while being unfamiliar with the proper tone for an encyclopedia is just a good faith mistake and lack of experience. I'm not arguing with the solution to have the editor post their suggestions here, just saying I think they were acting in good faith, not necessarily pushing a POV. Burpelson AFB (talk) 01:50, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't disagree that they were acting in good faith, but I don't agree that POV pushing is necessarily done in bad faith. I have noted in the Disclosure of interest section, I felt that this article was written by a new user who was unfamiliar with policy, who may not have realized that POV pushing is inappropriate here.RadManCF (talk) 02:12, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. Burpelson AFB (talk) 02:27, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I removed the tone tag I previously placed. It seems much better now that the peacock words have mostly been edited out. Burpelson AFB (talk) 01:59, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks everyone. I am a very new user - this is the first article I have tried to write on Wikipedia, and I'm still learning!  I am a scientist working in an outreach role, so my text may have seemed a bit PR-like.  I'm happy with your editing, and appreciate all of your input. Hermione p (talk) 09:42, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

DYK
I want to suggest this for DYK but I don't feel comfortable taking credit for "creating" it, since I just wrote a two or three sentence stub. Would someone else like to suggest it? Burpelson AFB (talk) 02:04, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, will do.RadManCF (talk) 02:13, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks! Burpelson AFB (talk) 02:27, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi there, what is DYK? Hermione p (talk) 09:42, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The "Did You Know?" section of the Main Page. Interesting stuff gets posted there every day, so this is a compliment to the article. See WP:DYK. — Sizzle Flambé (☎/✍) 15:37, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's great! Thank you all very much! Hermione p (talk) 09:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Images
I think it would be helpful to find images for this article. In particular, I think it would be a good idea to show the geographic locations in which this project is being conducted.RadManCF (talk) 02:39, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I left a note at Hermione p's talk page asking to come here and let us know geographic locations. Burpelson AFB (talk) 04:40, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi there, I have heaps of images to put up for the project, including a map of working areas, was just waiting for the 4-day approval thing to be allowed to put pics up. The working areas are the Scandinavian margin, Porcupine Bank, Porcupine Seabight, Rockall Bank and Trough, Iberian Margin, West, Central and East Mediterranean.  Hermione p (talk) 09:16, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That sounds good. Just make sure these images can be released under a free license or they will probably be deleted. Are these images public domain? Or can they be licensed under one of these? ? (Somneone else wanna pitch in and explain the image licensing to Hermione? I'm not an expert on that.) Burpelson AFB (talk) 00:06, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * In addition to the working areas, I noticed that the article mentions instrumented moorings. hermione p do you have any pictures of those?RadManCF (talk) 01:04, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi there, on the picture front I have hit a bit of a wall. There are a couple of pictures I can put up as they were created by my institution (National Oceanography Centre, Southampton UK) but the rest belong to our partner institutions and I don't think I will be able to license them under the free licenses.  I'll put up the ones I can for now, and will work on the others.  RadManCF - I do have pics of instrumented moorings, but unfortunately they are not mine so I can't put them up at the moment.  I will try asking our partners if they would like to edit the page and add images where they can.  Hermione p (talk) 09:55, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * sounds good.RadManCF (talk) 23:56, 16 December 2009 (UTC)