Talk:House of Aviz-Beja

Merger
The Portuguese article does not recognize this as a separate House from that of Avis. There was not a break in the line of succession, as Manuel I of Portugal, Duke of Beja, was by birth already an Infante of Portugal and grandson of Edward, King of Portugal, so belonging to the very same House of Aviz. capmo (talk) 15:34, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * This should be merged, if the Portuguese don't even recognize the existence of seperate Aviz-Beja branch. The article from the Portuguese wik should be translated and this an Aviz-Beja section should be included on the main article detailing the misconception, although the content about the "Dinastia do Crato", "Dinastia de Aviz-Inquisição", or "Dinastia de Avis-Évora" should be left out because I believe it to be original research by the Portuguese editors since there are no mention of any of these three dynasties outside of wikipedia .--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 05:20, 5 November 2012 (UTC)


 * This article should be urgently marked to be merged with the House of Aviz one. There is no such thing as a House of Aviz-Beja. It is just plainly wrong. All the Kings of Portugal were descendants in the male line of Afonso I (the first King in the XII century) until 1853, when Peter V (son of Mary II) succeeded to the throne; with the exception of the three Spanish Kings (Philip I, II and III) who usurped the crown in 1580 and ruled Portugal until the Revolution of 1640. If we exclude the Spanish kings (the Habsburg Dinasty), all the monarchs that ruled Portugal are divided into 3 Dynasties. As said, all 3 dynasties are descendants in the male line from Afonso I and the cut off points to divide them are when two illegitimate descendents, albeit in the male line, managed to succeed to the throne. The first one was John I who succeded to his half-brother in 1385, thus founding the Royal House of Aviz. The second one was John IV, Duke of Braganza, who claimed the throne in the 1640 Revolution that expels the Spanish yoke, thus founding the Royal House of Braganza. The claimed was based on the right of his grandmother Catarina, Infanta of Portugal and Duchess of Braganza, grand-daughter of King Manuel I, who lost her claim to the throne in the conturbed 1580 succession crisis. Nebertheless, John the IV was also a male-line descendent from Afonso I, through the Dukes of Braganza, although the first Duke was an illegitimate son of King John I. Concerning the article in question, all Kings of Portugal from Duarte I to Henrique I (Duarte I, Afonso V, John II, Manuel I, John III, Sebastian I and Henrique I) are male-line descendants from John I, the founder of the Royal House of Aviz. In particular, Manuel I, Duke of Beja (and the alleged founder of the non-existant House of Aviz-Beja) was the son of Ferdinand, Duke of Viseu, who was son of Duarte I. Manuel I thus succeed to his first-cousin in the male-line John II who died without issue. To the Portuguese historiography that succession does not imply in any way a change in Dynasty, nor did the contemporaries of that situation found it to be so. The invention of this wrong concept is explained in the Portuguese wiki page for the House of Aviz, where an argument ab absurdo is used to show the illogicality of the concept, thus making reference to other possible would-be-Dynasties, such as "Dinastia do Crato", "Dinastia de Aviz-Inquisição", or "Dinastia de Avis-Évora". Neither of those is a real one. --Tomás de Sousa Athayde e Noronha (talk) 22:19, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes merging the two article will create a more accurate article. Any volunteers?--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 05:03, 21 June 2013 (UTC)