Talk:Household hardware/Archive 1

What Links Here
I was wondering why such a stub of a page would be getting over 25,000 views a month. I think I found the answer.
 * Links to Hardware

History of hardware
or something like that. Wbm1058 (talk) 05:48, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hardware was born on 04:08, 31 July 2001‎ as a redirect to Computer hardware.
 * Hardware was reborn on 16:06, 18 October 2001, with lede: Hardware is a comprehensive term for all of the physical parts of a computer, as distinguished from the data it contains or operates on.
 * On 15:43, 25 February 2002‎, Hardware again redirected to Computer hardware.
 * On 12:02, 22 August 2002‎, Hardware is a word customarily used to describe tools, building and plumbing supplies and the like. Perhaps someone would like to write an artical about it here.
 * On 18:53, 4 March 2009‎ Computer hardware moved to Personal computer hardware: Computer hardware is a broad topic; article is specific to personal computer

Redirect
Shouldn't this redirect to the disambig, or at least have a link to the disambig at the top of the page? 143.92.1.33 (talk) 00:46, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, "a link to the disambiguation at the top of the page", you mean like this?


 * That hatnote has been at the top of the "article" since 9 September 2006, when the disambig was created.


 * Obviously, the current arrangement is not working. Editors keep trying to turn this article into a disambiguation, which creates a content fork!  They create a red link to household hardware, duh!  This is supposed to be the article on household hardware.  If only someone would take the hint and write a real article.  Household hardware is the primary topic for hardware, it should not need the household qualifier.  WP:PRECISION says: Name an article as precisely as is necessary to indicate accurately its topical scope, but avoid over-precision.  Household hardware provides a natural disambiguation, but it should, in theory, be unnecessary over-precision.  Ace household hardware store?  Sears household hardware store?  True Value household hardware store?  But clearly from the reader feedback, Wikipedia readers seem to be looking for computer-related information.  Why doesn't Micro Center call itself a hardware store instead of a  "computer department store"?  I guess because it has a software department. – Wbm1058 (talk) 18:55, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia article traffic statistics

 * Hardware has been viewed 46348 times in the last 30 days.
 * Hardware (disambiguation) has been viewed 1437 times in the last 30 days.

So the (household) Hardware "article" is getting over 32 times more hits than the hardware disambiguation. If a substantial portion (majority) of these hits are looking for computer hardware, then we have a problem. I suggest making the disambiguation primary. Hardware should redirect to Hardware (disambiguation)—the term is too ambiguous to support a stand-alone article. The current hardware article should be moved to household hardware and its focus limited to only items which are typically sold in hardware stores. I view it as a form of secondary disambiguation, as computer hardware and personal computer hardware are also secondary disambiguation for that type of hardware. There are still a lot of articles linking to hardware—these will need to be addressed: hardware. – Wbm1058 (talk) 20:55, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Wbm1058, I suggest you initiate a formal article move request according Requested moves. It is a well used process inviting other editors to vote on the request. Succes, SchreyP (messages) 21:03, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am leaning that way and will likely do that. Another point: a lot of the hardware links on Wikipedia, in my opinion are overlinks.  Hardware is a plain English word, and its specific meaning is usually obvious from the context of the article in which it's used. Too many editors, I think, feel that they know what hardware is, but there may be poor readers who don't know what it is, so they mindlessly link it, without bothering to check out what exactly they are linking to.  Maybe, if disambig is made primary, then a bot can just crawl the whole encyclopedia and simply unlink them all.  Manually fixing this would be very tedious. Wbm1058 (talk) 21:41, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Plan for implementing redirect
On second thought Hardware should be kept here, and not moved, in order to preserve its wonderful history right here. I think the proper plan should be:
 * 1) create a new page household hardware, initially and temporarily, as a redirect to hardware. ✅ Wbm1058 (talk) 13:18, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) update hardware hathote: "Household hardware" redirects here. For Personal computer hardware, see Personal computer hardware. For other uses, see hardware (disambiguation). ✅ Wbm1058 (talk) 13:18, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * 3) add a link for household hardware to hardware (disambiguation), remove the hardware link, and reorganize so that no article is the primary topic. ✅ Wbm1058 (talk) 14:52, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) update the hardware lead sentence to start with Household hardware. ✅ Wbm1058 (talk) 14:52, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * 5) change appropriate article links from hardware to household hardware, e.g., any links from hardware store. ✅ Wbm1058 (talk) 02:01, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 6) move hardware → household hardware. ✅ Wbm1058 (talk) 02:01, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 7) move hardware (disambiguation) → hardware. ✅ Wbm1058 (talk) 02:01, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 8) remove household hardware hathote: "Household hardware" redirects here.... – it's no longer needed. ✅ Wbm1058 (talk) 02:01, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * 9) clean up remaining links to hardware, via WP:DPL tools such as Dab solver or maybe AutoWikiBrowser.  Right now Hardware would rank #3 in the [//toolserver.org/~jason/disambig_links.php?limit=500&offset=0 top 500 disambiguation pages] updated Wbm1058 (talk) 14:24, 19 July 2012 (UTC) ✅ Wbm1058 (talk) 21:24, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

If I don't see any objections here, I'll begin working on this process shortly—Wbm1058 (talk) 13:22, 13 July 2012 (UTC) ✅ Yay! I'll monitor the results over on the new Hardware disambiguation talk page Wbm1058 (talk) 21:24, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * An editor recently added a link to hardware, which should have linked to computer hardware. More confirmation of the need for these changes. In the future, after hardware redirects to disambiguation, User:DPL bot should post a disambiguation link notification to this editor's talk page.  Step #5 is in progress, that will take a while... Wbm1058 (talk) 14:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC) updated 14:52, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Household hardware vs. Hardware (mechanical)
I just realized that in the category system we already have Category:Hardware (mechanical). I don't have a strong preference over whether Wikipedia uses natural disambiguation or parenthetical disambiguation here. Anyone else have an opinion? Wbm1058 (talk) 11:12, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved to Household hardware Mike Cline (talk) 16:36, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

– Neither computer hardware nor household hardware is the primary topic, although both have tried. Lengthy discussion of issues and solutions at Talk:Hardware --Relisted Cúchullain t/ c 13:09, 10 August 2012 (UTC) Wbm1058 (talk) 23:13, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Hardware → Household hardware
 * Hardware (disambiguation) → Hardware
 * Nominator's comment. Talk:Hardware (disambiguation) redirects here.  As none of this talk page specifically discusses household or mechanical hardware, it should not be necessary to move the talk pages.  Keep this talk page right here.  Only edit to change templates: template:DisambigProject on talk:Hardware; template:WikiProject Home living and template:WikiProject Technology on talk:Household hardware.  Thanks, Wbm1058 (talk) 03:03, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * comment I disagree, the talk page should be moved. A new talk page should exist for the disambiguation page. Indeed, I'll implement it presently, since it is wrong for the dab page's talk page to point here, unless the dab page is here. -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 07:11, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * not to make a big issue of this, but the reason I redirected the disambig talk page—no discussion ever started there—is so a discussion "WP:CONTENTFORK" wouldn't get started there, in the unlikely event that someone did decide to start a discussion there. This page is where, from a practical standpoint, the disambiguation of "hardware" has been discussed, although it is not yet "officially" the disambig page. There really has not been as yet any discussion on how to go about expanding the household hardware stub. Wbm1058 (talk) 16:06, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Support per nom, also there being Builders hardware -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 06:48, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Peter Horn User talk 20:10, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. BTW, nice work on equipment, another overlinked plain English word, which currently ranks #9 on the Disambiguation pages with links Top 500. – Wbm1058 (talk) 13:38, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose - When used outside of the "technology" context, hardware invariably refers to "household hardware". --Education does not equal common sense. 我不在乎  03:34, 25 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Talk about how to expand the Household hardware stub article
This page should be turned into a Broad-concept article (see WP:DABCONCEPT), and a sub-disambiguation to items found in a hardware store, analogous to how personal computer hardware is a sub-disambiguation to items found in a personal computer. – Wbm1058 (talk) 02:01, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Reader feedback: Individual store opening Dates for Bunnings
139.168.210.241 posted this comment on 15 February 2012 (view all feedback).

"Individual store opening Dates for Bunnings"

See Bunnings Warehouse. Wbm1058 (talk) 23:14, 9 May 2013 (UTC)