Talk:Housing cooperative/Archive 1

Short life housing co-ops
Some housing co-ops exist by leasing properties from other bodies on a short term basis, rather than owning them. I live in such a co-op myself, in London, UK. Our web page is Riverlink Housing Co-operative Ltd

I would like to add something to this effect to this article, but as a newbie to the world of wikipedia I feel I should mention this here rather than jump straight in.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks.

--Kevin Wykes 19:23, 15 May 2005 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, you ought to just jump right in, Kevin. I added some stuff tonight about the difference between limited equity and market rate.  Your contribution about leasing co-ops would be good.  The whole thing definitely needs to be better organized.  Not sure if I'm up to the task.  Tedernst 05:56, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Canada Section
The federal and provincial governments in Canada solved this problem for many years by developing, in the 1970s, specific legislation that aided the lending part of the equation through high-ratio, low down-payment mortgages

What is the 'this problem' referred to in the opening sentence of the Canadian section? --Clay Collier 23:22, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Good question. No idea.  Tedernst 23:51, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I think I sorted it out by looking at an older copy of the page. The Canada info became disconnected from the discussion of challanges facing new co-ops when the article was broken into sections.  Should make a little more sense now.  --Clay Collier 11:05, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm also a newbie to the Wikipedia process. There also needs to be amplification of the differences (especially in Ontario!) between co-ownership co-ops, equity co-ops and occupant run co-ops. They are all different.


 * Toronto co-ownerships mostly date from the forties and fifties, predating Ontario's Condo Act of 1973. I live in one. We were incorporated in 1958 under the Business Corporations Act. We're still governed by that act.


 * Velochicdunord 00:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It seems that some of the Canadian "co-ops" are more like Swedish Tenant-owner's associations, where the residents do not own or pay for the property. I think this article should concentrate on the real estate ownership type of housing cooperatives, and the other types, even if they are called "coops", should be covered in more specific articles. -- Petri Krohn 00:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Madison, Wisconsin
There is only one 'student owned and run' cooperative house among the more than twenty area residential co-ops. It is only semi-autonomous from the university, and does not conform to the definition of cooperative used througout the rest of the article. I am deleting 'madison, wisconsin' from the list of cities containing 'student owned and run' co-operatives because it seems to me to be POV. If there's a consensus to restore it here, i will. I'd also like to remind co-opers (and I am one myself) using wikipedia that wikipedia is an intentional community in and of itself and disrespecting its policies would be akin to violating those of your own co-op. Co-ops and co-op organizations have in several cases blatantly abused wiki for advertisement and or advocacy. Jimmyq2305 00:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Co-ops and American banks
I read "somewhere on the web" that banks in the US can be reluctant to finance co-ops because they don't have any experience with them (outside of NYC and maybe a few other cities), and that a number of co-ops have been converted to condomimiums just to make it easier for the residents to get mortgages. Unfortunately I can't find the reference now. Can anyone outside of NYC comment on this? -Rbean 23:02, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


 * That's been our experience in Chicago starting the Hub Housing Cooperative (we closed in Jan of 05 and moved in in April. None of the banks we spoke with had any idea what we were talking about.  We ended up getting a mortgage from the Chicago Community Loan Fund.  There are examples of co-ops in Chicago that ended up legally being condos for the reasons you cite.  I'm not sure any of this is documentable.  Tedernst | talk 02:20, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm... Contrast that to the situation in Finland, where a share in a coop is about the only form of real estate you can get a commercial mortage on. -- Petri Krohn 03:59, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge
I believe that it should stay as it is. The article suggested for the merge "Tenant-owner's association" is more generic than Housing Cooperatives, and can be applied to condos as well as other types of arrangements. Housing Coops are specific, and while they can be construed as an owners Association, it is more than that, and not that at all. IMHO Juda S. Engelmayer 22:11, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * See discussion at Talk:Tenant-owner's association. -- Abut 19:00, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Confuses two concepts
This article seems to be simultaneously about two related concepts, without being clear about how they related. One is an ownership arrangement, distinguished from condominiums, for multiple people in a single building. Another is a particular social style of living characterized by shared responsibilities, shared upkeep, desire for self-sufficiency, etc. These aren't necessarily overlapping, though they sometimes are: There are plenty of co-ops in the legal sense that contract out all their maintenance to paid staff very much like condominium buildings do, and meanwhile there are "co-ops" in the social sense that are not legally set up as cooperatives. It also varies somewhat by city and country. --Delirium 11:09, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * We could split some of the "social" stuff to an article on rental cooperatives. -- Petri Krohn 12:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Especially the section about Finland is very confusing as it says "co-op membership is the prime form of real estate and home ownership", while what (I think) the article actually is supposed to be about is what's in Finnish is called "asumisoikeus", which is a relatively new concept in Finland. (Unlike in Sweden for instance.) -- TorLillqvist 11:35, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

India
In Mumbai, India almost all the apartments / flats are in the form of Co-operative Housing Society. I think a section on India should be added too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Samirmokashi (talk • contribs) 21:46, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Splitting Canada section into new article
Should NOT be split until there are sufficient references, or the whole thing could be deleted. -Tattylicious 00:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Should NOT be split: it looks a perfectly natural subsection alongside the other country subsections in this article on housing cooperatives in general. --Zlerman (talk) 16:35, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I have now removed the split tags for all the individual countries. In retrospect it seems a good split would be into Housing cooperatives by country. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 20:45, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Denmark
I have heard, that Denmark is the country with the largest share of co-op-owned real estate? True? Indeed housing co-ops are a major factor on the Danish real estate market. Any Danes here able to contribute to a "Denmark" section? Medico80 13:06, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Except for the Swedish names I'm unable to detect any difference between the Swedish and the Danish systems. Maybe changing the Swedish section into a Danish/Swedish section is the way to go. Probably Norway has the same system, so maybe even changing into a Scandinavian section would be better. If names are desired a subsection with names could be added. The Danish name for "Housing cooperative" is "Andelsboligforening" The Norwegian name seems to be "Borettslag" If what is written in the Sweden section is entirely true (doubt it) there is one small difference; In Denmark the shares are not sold in an entirely free market. There is an maximum price that the share can be sold at. This price equals a fixed fraction of the total free value in the "cooperative" plus the value individual improvements to the apartment/house that the share owner has the right to occupy. The value of improvements is the documented cost of establishment minus deductions due to age and wear which is calculated by strict rules. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.150.118.21 (talk) 22:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

the national romantic Jugend style
This is not clear. Actually its probably the FINNISH NATIONAL ROMANTIC STYLE that the buildings are built to. THis predates the jugend style of germany. The links are not clear as neither of them refer to architectural styles nor explain what they are IN ADDITION TO BEING WRONG AS ABOVE. Perhaps an architectural expert could explain what BUILDING features are in these buildings and are typical of that building style NOT A GENERAL LINK TO an art period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.250.64.142 (talk) 14:25, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

former USSR
The housing co-operatives in countries like Russia, Ukraine, etc. (жилой массив or zhiloi massiv) are easily the largest in the world. Sikhov housing co-operative in Lvov, Ukraine is almost three times larger than Co-Op city in New York. We need to add a section on this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.223.175 (talk) 02:59, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * What are your sources? We can't add a section if we don't know what books to read. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 13:46, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Untitled
Photos

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Dakota on the center right in the second photograph on the page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.236.108.83 (talk) 02:18, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

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Terms
Is there some other term that could be used, I dont like the word lease, it implies that the ocupant really isnt in possesion of the apartment but just renting it in an extended agreement. --J intela 05:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Member? In Sweden at least, the right to actually reside in the apartment/house follows from the membership in the co-op, and not the mere acquisition of the share. Ferridder (talk) 18:45, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

The cost
One important aspect about housing cooperatives that apparently needs coverage in this article is the cost; co-ops are often significantly cheaper than other alternatives. According to this article, "A condo in NYC can be up to 40% more expensive than a comparable co-op, as there is less supply of condos and the vast majority of apartment inventory in the city is comprised of co-ops. Furthermore, condos have additional demand from investor buyers who may not be able to purchase a co-op since most co-op buildings have subletting restrictions" Bezrat (talk) 14:57, 13 January 2021 (UTC)