Talk:Housing in Japan

Current Japanese collaboration
Thoughts on additions:
 * 1) Photos! E.g. exterior and interior views of single-family and multiple-unit housing, modern and traditional. Photo of house under construction.
 * 2) Building materials: frame, foundation, roof (including tiles), siding
 * 3) Patterns of occupancy: who lives where?
 * 4) Trends, e.g. barrier-free
 * 5) Regional variation
 * 6) Funding, loans, bad loans
 * 7) Mixed-use buildings: shops on first floor etc.
 * 8) Housing ownership and transactions
 * 9) Public housing; government programs related to housing

Gardens
Not a single mention of gardens. I think there's quite a bit to say, that for example lawns and suburban gardens as found across much of the rest of the western world are usually absent, and in fact modern homes often have no garden to speak of at all, whereas older Japanese homes often at least had japanese gardens. I can't write it myself because I just don't know the whys of all this, but would be interested if someone who knows about it could write a section.--Hontogaichiban (talk) 16:34, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

First paragraph
Does not seem to make sense currently, can someone look into it? I would but no time. Tsuk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.217.60.14 (talk) 08:12, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Morse book
Edward S. Morse died in 1925, so for this page and others it will be possible to scan in many of his illustrations from the book mentioned in the references. I'll start scanning in some pictures. --DannyWilde 06:15, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Rabbit hutches
Does anyone know the original source of the description of Japanese people as "living in rabbit hutches"? It might have been from a U.N. report in the 1960s or 1970s. The term has had a lasting effect on Western perception of Japanese housing and reference to it would be a helpful addition to the article. The Japanese census collects information on floor space, and one wonders whether it's in response to this description. If anyone knows the results of the census question on housing, it to would be a valuable statistic to cite. Fg2 08:25, 11 November 2005 (UTC) I looked at lots of sites that I found using Google, but could not find anything resembling the original. Fg2 10:12, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
 * "The originator of the phrase is reportedly Sir Roy Denman, who, as director-general for external relations of the EC Commission in 1979, referred to the Japanese in a confidential internal memo as “workaholics living in rabbit hutches.”". Another theorey has it that it was an overly literal translation of the French phrase "cage a lapins" . (I think that Japanese housing is less urban, more likely to be detached, and not so small especially when owned, but I have yet to find the stats corresponding to those at the beginning of this article. If it is the case that Japanese housing is not so small, then a section on myths regarding Japanese housing might be in order) And alas I read that Fg2 (hani) is deceased--Timtak (talk) 20:18, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Potentially useful links
I posted these on the WP:JTNB back when the article was first proposed, but they've been archive on the talk page by now.


 * Finding a place to live and work in Japan
 * Guide to Official Statistics in Japan: Construction, Real Estate, and Housing
 * Japan See the Settlements subtitle
 * A book review on Housing in Postwar Japan: A Social History
 * Traditional Japanese housing - minka
 * Why Are Prices in Japan So Damn High?
 * "The recent controversial rough sleepers provisions in Japan" - Homelessness (pdf)

Re: the home ownership section, see also: parasite singles

Genkans are not in and of themselves all that visually interesting, usually, but I'll see if I can't find a good one for a photo, either for use in that article or this one. — MC MasterChef :: Leave a tip — 10:36, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Stats
I added some data from the 1998 survey on housing — for some reason the 2003 data doesn't seem to have been added yet, at least on the internet site there. This link has a bunch of data on house construction numbers, if there are any people who enjoy poring over Excel tables. For the moment, I've just dropped it in the external links. — MC MasterChef :: Leave a tip — 05:35, 13 November 2005 (UTC) When I added pictures they won't show up either Caleb Napier 12:15, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I think I know why now .Check at the top if it says the message at the bottom .If that isn't it tell me If you figured it out.Caleb Napier 12:20, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

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Basements
Puzzled by the statement "Basements are not allowed and are never found." A google search for 地下室 (restricted to pages in Japanese and top-level domain .jp) returned "about 490,000" pages. I only looked at a couple, but they (well, some of them!) definitely seemed to be talking about basements in Japan. For example, 1, 2, 3. I wonder if they're permitted in some communities or prefectures, not in others? Fg2 11:34, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I've never personally seen one, and seem to recall that either a) if they are built then they are subject to some very strict earthquake and flood codes, or b) they cannot be built in a residential area because of earthquake and/or flood codes. Sorry - not much help. Neier 15:31, 14 November 2005 (UTC)


 * This addition was mine, and I based it on something I'd heard, but I don't have any concrete proof or references for it at the moment. However, I think I've never seen a Japanese house with a basement. Perhaps the regulations are more complex than the statement implies. However, basements are certainly rare here. --DannyWilde 03:06, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Basements in Tokyo
There are definitely basements in Tokyo. Several friends have basements in their houses (we live in the heart of Tokyo), apartment buildings and loads of bars and restaurants are in basements. Hope this helps.

Parasite Singles
"A 1998 survey by the Ministry of Health and Welfare indicated that about 60% of single Japanese men and 80% of single women between the ages of 20 and 34 lived with their parents."

I suspect this sentence should read "lived with their parents at some time after the age of 20." I mean, I cannot believe that 70% (presuming that's the average for all sexes) of Japanese men and women between the ages of 20 and 34 currently live with their parents. Blondlieut 21:25, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Thoughts for improvement
1. I have never been to Japan, but from what I've gathered, a common unit of measurement is the standard tatami mat. If I am correct, could someone who knows please add the details? If I am wrong, I don't think I am the only one, so could someone write something along the lines of "A common misconception is..." 2. There are a couple of references to mansions. To me, this term means a very large house, usually owned by a very rich person (and often inherited through a very rich family). There seems to be a different meaning here, but I can't tell what it is. I found the article informative, and look forward to finding out more. BrainyBabe 21:04, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi BrainyBabe, and thanks for the suggestions (and kind words). I've put in a sentence or two to address point #1; it includes a link to tatami for readers who want more information on the subject. On point #2, generally, Americans in Japan find the use of the word "mansion" to mean "condominium" surprising. I looked it up at Merriam-Webster and found (sense 2b) that it does have the meaning in which the Japanese use it. Perhaps that usage is common in British or Commonwealth English. The article explains that it uses "mansion" in that sense; if you feel that more explanation is necessary, we can do something. And feel free to edit the article! Best regards Fg2 21:47, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for confirming what I suspected. I have adapted the article to make both points clearer.  "Mansion" definitely has the meaning I quoted above in current British English, as you seem to suggest it does in American English as well. The subsidiary definition is a new one to me, and so I've rephrased the relevant section.  Good luck! BrainyBabe 22:19, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if condo as short for a condominium is well understood or not; so I slightly modified that section. I prefer just leaving "mansions" through the paragraph, as a way to familiarize with the Japanese term, but, if it is perceived as difficult to understand, then any/all improvements are welcome.
 * Also, be very careful with the "standardized" tatami sizes. There is a commonly accepted size (half of a tsubo, which is a legal measurement standard), but, some apartments (especially older ones) may use smaller mats, and quote a size of 6-tatami which is smaller than newer rooms which are also 6-tatami. Neier 22:47, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I think your idea of using the terms condo/condominium/mansion in combination is a good one. The article on tatami uses the word "uniform" instead of "standard", but I think the housing article is clear enough, because the link is right there.  Clarify more if you think it needs it.  I'm glad I've been able to do my bit, without having ever been to Japan! BrainyBabe 09:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Global view on electricity, please!
Good to read a thing or two about housing in Japan, quite interesting since I might be going there to study in a few years. However, while reading the article, I came upon the part about electricity, which compares the japanese outlets to others, and only brings up american. "Outlets resemble those formerly used in the United States, with two vertical slots. Unlike modern American outlets, the slots are usually of equal width, and there is no third slot for ground plugs.". Since I'm European, this means little to me (even if the details (vertical slots, etc) are helpful), and I'd love to have this part broadened beyond American standards, perhaps comparing them to both American, European and other outlets. A minor problem, but a change would make this article even better! Shandolad 14:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point. When I wrote the initial part, I intentionally put in the US comparison in the hopes that other editors would add information from countries they're familiar with. (At the time, one of the active editors was from Australia.) But although the section has had some additions, they have not approached the description from other points of view. So I hope someone will add to the comparison, or rephrase it in its own terms. Fg2 21:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I added a link to a comprehensive article on plugs. Neier 09:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Nice teamwork. In my opinion this is what makes Wikipedia so appealing - one person can bring to the table their own experiences and knowledge, and more people can join in and expand on that knowledge. SlapAyoda 13:41, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Discrimination
Kudos for the good work on this article. It reads well. I was wondering if there should be any mention of the guarantor that renters for apartments typically need. Also, in all fairness, I think a note on the discrimination that many non-Japaense face when renting or buying apartments should be discussed.

I second that call. Housing discrimination is quite common in this homogenous society. Either that or we could add a link.

Option for foreigners - Gaijin houses
Hey gang! I'm new to WIkipedia and I would really appreciate everyone's feedback as to whether or not my two additions to this page are appropriate. I'm an American citizen but recently spent three months living in Tokyo. In my experience, the easiest way to achieve that was to find a gaijin house, in this case I ended up with one provided by Sakura House. This type of housing is not completely uncommon in cities like Tokyo and Osaka, so I thought it notable to mention here. Let me know if I'm correct/incorrect - any and all feedback appreciated. Thanks, all. SlapAyoda 13:40, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Current collaboration
This article has been the current Japanese collaboration since February. Time to move on? // Habj 23:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. // Habj 17:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

House materials
I consulted the article (and it seems good to me) except that I was looking for the major types of wood used in Japanese houses, and couldn't find it. Could someone who knows say whether the majority wood is cedar, or oak or something else? Or perhaps this has changed in the last century?

-Neil Whitehead, New Zealand
 * Not the complete list but Chamaecyparis obtusa (highly prized and expensive), Cryptomeria, Larch, Quercus acuta, Paulownia. And the proportion of usage is not the right question. I'm not an expert so I can't give you detail but I suspect that different timber is used for different purpose due to different mechanical property of these timber. Some may be used for wall, ceiling, door or floor, other may be used for column or decoration or funiture.Vapour

Interior design
I added slightly better explanation of Japanese housing. The previous version appear to be written by someone with little understanding of how Japanese live and what 3/2LDK means. I would also recommend moving the section "traditional housing" before "interior design" section. The principle of Japanese housing is resizable multi purpose room. Partionins is made possible by portable removable sliding doors. Multipurpose rooms is achived by portable furnitures such as chabudai, kotatu and futon as well as Oshiire, storage section. The current arrangement of the article which have section "Bed room" completely miss the point. Washitu isn't a bed room. It's a Japanese "style" room which can be futon/bed room, living room or study room, which are often used to house guest. Think it as a Japanese version of "guest house". Vapour

Content Forking
Isn't it better to create a separate article "Japanese House" and fork "interior design", "utility" and few other sections? The current article is somewhat unfocused. Vapour

prices and rent
japenese homes are usually low prices for wealthy people and the rent for them is very high. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.56.29.109 (talk) 20:46, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

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