Talk:Houston Astros sign stealing scandal

Lawsuit filed against the Astros
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/mlb/ex-blue-jays-reliever-sues-astros-1.5458728 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.141.19 (talk) 22:20, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ lawsuit was added to Houston_Astros_sign_stealing_scandal section. --   LuK3      (Talk)   01:00, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2020
Change

"The Astros finished in first place in the American League (AL) West division for the 2017 season with a win–loss record of 107–55.[13] They were 60–21 at home and 47–34 on the road."

to

"The Astros finished in first place in the American League (AL) West division for the 2017 season with a win–loss record of 101–61.[13] They were 48–33 at home and 53-28 on the road."

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Change

"The Astros finished in first place in the AL West again in 2018 with a 107–55 record (50–31 at home and 47–34 away) but lost the AL Championship Series to the Red Sox."

to

"The Astros finished in first place in the AL West again in 2018 with a 103–59 record (46–35 at home and 57–24 away) but lost the AL Championship Series to the Red Sox." 2601:483:4F80:1790:9199:168E:9CA6:1437 (talk) 09:57, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
 * These changes were put into the article by another editor. RudolfRed (talk) 02:16, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Previous report from Bob Melvin of Astros cheating
The fact Bob Melvin, the manager of the Oakland A's, had previously reported the Astros to the MLB Commissioner's Office prior to Mike Fiers going public should be in this article. Because that report wasn't publicly reported, the Commissioner's Office buried the report. See: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2876040-athletics-filed-complaint-on-astros-cheating-to-mlb-before-mike-fiers-comments — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.248.172.246 (talk) 22:45, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 February 2020
Change the Tony Kemp linked wiki (in the Astros reactions section) to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Kemp_(baseball) ScootsySr (talk) 20:28, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * , Yes check.svg Done. Thanks for pointing this out! – Muboshgu (talk) 21:10, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Article Title
The title of this article is completely inappropriate. Sign Stealing is not against the rules and the title demonstrates a bias in favor of the Astros. The title should be "Houston Astros 2017-2019 Cheating Scandal" or similar. Someone who can edit the locked article please address this. Friendlyediting (talk) 00:29, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Your suggestion violates WP:NPOV, so I wouldn't count on that happening. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk &bull; contributions) 00:47, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The sign stealing is the predominant component, right?--Duroq145 (talk) 00:49, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * "Cheating" is vague, while "sign stealing" provides more information on what actually happened. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:54, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Why is there going to be a scandal about something that is completely legal. The scandal is that they cheated not that they stole signs. Fix this! Friendlyediting (talk) 01:44, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Downplaying the nature of the scandal to make it sound like the conduct was legal violates WP-NPOV Friendlyediting (talk) 01:45, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * No one is downplaying anything. Just because we don't name the article "Terrible Astros who cheated like jerks catastrophe from 2017-2019" doesn't mean we are biased or love the Astros. Perhaps we simply want to name the article something that is non-biased, describes the issue in detail, and is how most media outlets have referred to it. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk &bull; contributions) 03:37, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Their idea of neutrality is sugarcoating the facts--Duroq145 (talk) 04:28, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Keep the title "Houston Astros sign stealing scandal", per Muboshgu. Friendlyediting's title, even with the year numbers, is less identifiable than the existing title: Ten years from now it won't be so easy to remember what particular cheating a particular team was involved in at a particular time; but if the title says "sign stealing", far more people will recall which scandal that was. (And feeling like you have to add years to an article title is another sign that maybe the article title isn't specific enough on its own.) We don't change every sex scandal article to have the specific words "adultery scandal" or "fornication scandal" in the title just because some sex is legal; we don't need to do it with other scandals either. (Also, even the sign stealing article says that sign stealing is only even tolerated in the most straightforward and simple situations. "Completely" legal is the sort of exaggeration that one uses for things that are questionable to begin with.  I'd love to know what special kind of person would come across a Wikipedia page, named "sign stealing scandal", with 127 footnotes, and think to themselves, "Well, at least it was completely legal because the article name didn't say it wasn't!") --Closeapple (talk) 06:53, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * In addition to above, many news organizations have used this name in their reporting. We should use the common name where ever possible and this is no exception. --   LuK3      (Talk)   17:45, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Title
I feel that the title of the article would be better served if it included the year of the event. For example 2017-18 Houston Astros sign stealing scandal. Thoughts on including the year? Mannysoloway (talk) 00:32, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
 * A little late on this reply but I think keeping the current title would be best. Having the years in the title implies the scandal only lasted two years which I don't think is correct due to the continued aftermath. --   LuK3      (Talk)   02:48, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Astros players who were opposed to the cheating
I added a small section, listing four Astros' hitters who, it has been reported in numerous places, were opposed to the cheating their team engaged in at the time. This is highly relevant, as all four are BLPs (each has his oen Wikipedia article) who should not be falsely thought of as being among the guilty. Someone keeps removing the section, for no obvious reason. I strongly maintain that this section is extremely important and should remain. Matza Pizza (talk) 11:21, 1 November 2023 (UTC)


 * If you think it's important, then try to incorporate it elsewhere in the article, not in its own dedicated section. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk &bull; contributions) 12:23, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * From a quick glance at the article I see that Kemp's refusal is already documented in Houston Astros sign stealing scandal. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:11, 1 November 2023 (UTC)