Talk:Howard Pyle

King Harry
I removed this:


 * In the chapter, "Robin Hood and the Tinker", Pyle mentions King Harry, a king who was greatly separated, historically, from the era in which Robin Hood lived. King John was the King of Robin Hood's era, reigning in the absence of Richard the Lionheart, who was absent from England, fighting in The Crusades.

I haven't checked who Pyle mentions as king, but otherwise, this is pretty much wrong from beginning to end. Niether Henry II nor Henry III is much separated from Richard and John; the first is their father and Richard's predecessor, while the second is John's son and successor (although this would be after Robin's outlawry ended). Also, John was not king when Robin was an outlaw (if, as stated elsewhere, Robin made peace with John's predecessor Richard), since he claimed only the title of Regent while his brother Richard was alive. That said, it is correct (however irrelevant now) that Richard was absent in the Third Crusade.

Now, if Pyle mentioned King *Edward*, that *would* be farther removed from Richard and John; and he might well have done so, since the earliest Robin Hood stories to mention a king mention Edward (either Henry III's son and successor Edward I, Edward I's son and successor Edward II, or Edward II's son and successor Edward III). Without a text of Pyle to check, I've removed the whole thing.

—Toby Bartels (talk) 09:09, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

OK, so I checked the text at Wikisource, and it does say "King Harry"; more to the point, the opening lines of Chapter I say "In merry england in the time of old, when good King Henry the Second ruled the land" (and the Tinker story is Chapter II), so really, it all hangs together just fine. Richard and John must simply wait for later chapters. —Toby Bartels (talk) 09:17, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Just to let you know, the book begins in the context of the end of the book when Robin is already an outlaw. Then, it goes back to how he became an outlaw which was, by the way, during the reign of Henry I. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacobmoya (talk • contribs) 17:32, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

In the Prologue, where the eighteen-year-old Robin encounters a group of the King's foresters, there is no mention of King Henry I. On page 3, one of the foresters refers to the reigning monarch as 'King Harry'. This could easily be Henry II, the king during whose reign Pyle sets Robin's life as an outlaw. Robin kills one of the foresters and becomes an outlaw as a result. Henry I died in 1134. Henry II didn't acceed to the throne until nineteen years later, in 1153. The final chapter has an encounter in the forest between Robin and Richard the Lionheart, who didn't become king until 1199. 'Harry' may not have been used as a nickname for 'Henry' in the 12th Century, but Pyle was writing a novel set in what he himself calls 'the land of Fancy' on page VIII of the Preface. O Murr (talk) 10:34, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Some important Self-corrections: Henry I died in 1135 (not 1134). Henry II became king in 1154 (not 1153) - and that was nineteen years later. Richard the Lionheart didn't become king in 1199 - that's the year he died. He became king ten years earlier, in 1189. But that was thirty-five years after the reign of his father Henry II began. Long enough for Howard Pyle's Robin Hood to have had a career as an outlaw before he encountered Richard. Pyle appears to have been more historically astute than might be imagined. O Murr (talk) 19:30, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 18:20, 29 April 2016 (UTC)