Talk:Hoyt Wilhelm

regarding Roger Maris
From the page: "In 1961 the Baltimore Orioles deliberately brought Wilhelm into a losing game, despite Wilhelm being their closer, in order to face a single batter: Roger Maris, who was on the verge of hitting his 60th home run and tying Babe Ruth's record in 154 games. The Orioles were widely decried in the press for what was called a "Bush League play"."

This is only partially true. In this game, the September 20 contest at Baltimore, Maris hit home run number 59 off Milt Pappas in the third inning. It is true that Wilhelm was used in the ninth inning when the Orioles were behind 4-2 and that he did retire Maris, but he pitched the ENTIRE inning, in which Maris batted third - after Bobby Richardson and Tony Kubek had already made outs. Maris could have potentially tied the record in that plate appearance, but it is questionable at best to posit that Wilhelm was used with the sole intent of preventing that from happening, and it is outright incorrect to say he was used to face only one batter.

The misconception above can certainly be attributed to the dramatization of events as portrayed in the film 61*. Good cinema, but factually lacking.

Box score of this game: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL196109200.shtml (see inning 9)

Maris' 1961 season log: http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=marisro01&t=b&year=1961 (good reading)

75.57.119.16 (talk) 08:38, 23 December 2008 (UTC)


 * All of this seems to be imposing the present-day "closer" mentality on a different era, one in which nobody ever heard of a "save situation." My guess (I really should do the research) is that Wilhelm was often brought in to shut down the opposition, even early in a game, even when his team was behind in the score.  110 innings in 51 games doesn't suggest a ninth-inning ace.  Good relief pitchers were available for use throughout the game in those days. WHPratt (talk) 14:34, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Hoyt Wilhelm vs Maris
The idea Wilhelm was brought in just so to stop Maris from getting to 60 homers in 154 games is a bunch of mularkey. Top relievers in that day pitched in losing games on a regular basis. For instance, just two games earlier Wilhelm made a relief appearance in a 1-0 Oriole loss to Boston.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS196109170.shtml

Wilhelm was brought in to relief against Boston with Baltimore down 1-0. A search of 1961 boxscores I'm sure will provide plenty of more evidence. Wilhelm's appearance in game 154 was nothing out of the ordinary.

As for the press making hay of Wilhelm's appearance, I couldn't find any such mention in a google news archive search. Here is how UPI reported the game.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=7kUyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qeUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4170,4568453&dq=hoyt+wilhelm+roger+maris&hl=en

or a Reading Eagle Sports column

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=uBErAAAAIBAJ&sjid=BpwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6111,1428383&dq=hoyt+wilhelm+roger+maris&hl=en

or even better an article that says two Oriole pitchers were rooting for Maris

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=QO4NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=JnkDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4908,4228463&dq=hoyt+wilhelm+roger+maris&hl=enWilliam 17:06, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Triple?
Some sources say that, in addition to homering in his first major league AB and never again in his career, he tripled in his second AB and also never again tripled. Anyone know if this is true? 76.195.220.224 (talk) 21:44, 22 May 2011 (UTC)


 * False. Check his season batting record for his first major league year.  It's obvious that he had some more at bats apart from (i.e., after) that homer the first time up, and he doesn't have a triple until the next season. WHPratt (talk) 14:00, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I checked Retrosheet.org. Wilhelm debuted Apr 18, 1952 with the N.Y. Giants. In his third game, Apr 23, he pitched in innings 3 through 8, got the win (9-5)  and got to bat twice.  He homered in the 4th off Dick Hoover of the Boston Braves with one out and the bases empty.  In the fifth, he grounded out, pitcher unassisted, but Willie Mays scored from third, so Hoyt had two RBI in that game.  He had 36 more at bats that year. On June 4, 1953, he pitched the final three innings against Cincinnati, winning 11-3.  In the 7th, he tripled off Jackie Collum with two out, but didn't score.  He'd already had something like 11 prior at-bats that season. So ... his triple came long after his homer, and yes, he never accomplished either feat again. WHPratt (talk) 06:24, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

45 Years
Wilhelm no-hit the New York Yankees on 20 Sep 1958, and nobody would hold that particular team hitless for almost 45 years. On 11 June 2003, it took six Houston Astros pitchers to do so in an interleague game. I don't know if that's interesting enough for the article. WHPratt (talk) 14:00, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It might be an interesting enough anecdote for History of the New York Yankees to mention that the Yankees weren't no hit for 45 years, but I don't think it is for this article. What's relevant to Wilhelm is the no-hitter itself and what it meant for his career. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:41, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it's noteworthy that, for 45 years, Wilhlem remained the last man to no-hit the Yankees. The implication is that he blanked the team that was famously resistant to such blanking. Probably much of it is due to random chance, but it's a nice story. WHPratt (talk) 19:48, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I note that stories -- about a committee of Houston pitchers again blanking the Yankees earlier today -- take care to mention that the Bronx Bombers have only been so defused twice in 64 years ... and Wilhelm is (and will probably remain) the last man to shut them down without assistance. Sort of shines light on his feat, wouldn't you say? WHPratt (talk) 04:14, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

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