Talk:Huadong

Requested move 10 April 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

No consensus. See no general agreement below to rename the dab page and to PTOPICREDIRECT the base name to "East China". As is usual with no-consensus outcomes, editors can strengthen their arguments and try again in a few months to rename this dab page. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover)  Paine Ellsworth , ed. put'r there 14:27, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Huadong → Huadong (disambiguation) and restore redirect to East China – per WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. Huadong, which means "East China" in Chinese, had always been a redirect to East China until the recent creation of the dab page. My restoration of the redirect was reverted. "Huadong" is frequently used in English sources to refer to its primary meaning of East China, see Google books results for "Huadong Region", "Huadong Military Region" (a predecessor of China's Eastern Theater Command), "Huadong Normal University" (East China Normal University), Huadong Hospital (East China Hospital), etc. All other entries in the dab pages are minor locations of little importance. Zanhe (talk) 20:26, 10 April 2019 (UTC) --Relisted. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:14, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose There's absolutely no indication that East China is the primary topic for "Huadong" in English. The examples given above only indicate the appropriateness of the disambiguation page at baseline; only when referring to the university, hospital etc. will a person write "Huadong" in English. Even when a writer wants to use "Huadong" for East China, they'll write "Huadong region". This can also be verified with a search of "Huadong" in Google Books: towns with this name get more results than the generic concept of "East China". The proposer is also presenting inaccurate information: "East China" is only one of the many definitions of Huadong, as can be seen by the numerous different Chinese terms on the disambiguation page. Timmyshin (talk) 21:03, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Other than East China and derived names, the dab page currently contains four township-level locations (two towns and two subdistricts). For perspective, China has about 40,000 township-level divisions, and East China, as one of China's most populous supra-provincial regions, probably contains 10,000 of them. Your claim that the four townships combined are more important than the major region does not hold water. The Google books search for "Huadong" is not that useful as it returns many books by non-notable authors whose names contain "Huadong". Take those out and the rest are mainly about East China or derivative terms (such as East China Normal University/Huadong Shifan Daxue). -Zanhe (talk) 00:07, 11 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Support I googled "Huadong" and the majority of results from the first pages refer to East China (including companies that use 华东 in their names), and most of the rest are personal names. None of the other meanings listed here showed up in significant numbers. In fact, Google redirected it to 华东 (East China) on my first search. Esiymbro (talk) 03:28, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Support as above. Given to understand that the proposition that it does not mean this primarily is what is required before disambiguating. Hyperbolick (talk) 06:31, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Weak oppose. It seems that the vast majority of Google hits are to entities which are not on the disambiguation page at all. If some of them are notable enough for an article and we actually end up with an article on them, the case for disambiguation becomes stronger. Currently, I'm inclined to oppose as "East China" is barely a blip on the radar in terms of Google results, even though it is more common than the other listed uses. We shouldn't be counting companies that use 华东 in their name; under that logic the various companies called 新华 would be evidence that some article on "New China" should be the primary topic of Xinhua. Overall, I'm not convinced that "East China" is what the majority of readers want when they type in "Huadong". -- King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 01:06, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
 * "East China" is far more than a blip on the radar in Google results. On the contrary, Google treats it as its own "primary topic", with a prominent box featured on top right with a summary describing East China and a link to the Wikipedia article. By contrast, none of the other entries on the dab page show up at all in the first few pages. Your comparison with "Xinhua" is inappropriate, as "New China" is not a notable topic with an article. If the PRC were to rename itself "New China", it would certainly become the primary topic for "Xinhua", just as "East China" should be for "Huadong". -Zanhe (talk) 19:17, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
 * On your hypothetical example with Xinhua: not necessarily. The primary topic in a native language does not automatically carry over to English, especially if it is primarily known under a translated name in English. See Talk:Also sprach Zarathustra (disambiguation), where there is currently unanimous consensus that the original book is not the primary topic of Also sprach Zarathustra (even though it is the primary topic on German Wikipedia). So even if the English name of the new country is "New China", "Xinhua" could nonetheless remain an ambiguous term. On Google I see the disambiguation page at #1, our East China page at #2, and afterwards the topic of East China only appears once in the next 50 results. -- King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 01:58, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Your interpretation of the Google results is all wrong. In fact, almost all top results refer to East China or its derivative uses: HydroChina Huadong is the East China division of HydroChina, PowerChina Huadong is the East China division of PowerChina, Huadong Medicine is also known as East China Pharmaceutical, Huadong Shipyard is also known as East China Shipyard, and so on.
 * And why are you bringing up Also sprach Zarathustra? That's a completely different case as Nietzsche's book has a strong competitor in Strauss's famous work, whereas "East China" has no real competition. Far more relevant to this case (the native name of a major geographic region) would be the requested moves at Talk:Nippon (disambiguation), Talk:España (disambiguation), and Talk:Polska (dance). In every single case the consensus is to redirect to the primary meaning in the native language. The fact that a Google search for "Nippon" brings up numerous derivative uses of its primary meaning of Japan (Nippon Express, All Nippon Airways, etc) only strengthens, not weakens the case. -Zanhe (talk) 06:10, 27 April 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.