Talk:Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market

According to Media Reports - Remove the list of food items
Many newspapers have printed wild speculations about what is for sale in the wet market and a lot of it is pandering to Western prejudices about China. People in the northern cities like Wuhan do not tend to eat bush meat. Yes, it is relatively common in the south, especially in rural areas. Please delete the media speculations and only include reports from people who have actually been there.

The Chinese government is not denying that there were some wild animals sold in that wet market. See: http://www.chinacdc.cn/gwxx/202002/t20200221_213510.html "However, all current evidence points to wild animals sold illegally in the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market."

Apparently the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (China CDC) has published an inventory of the market. I do not know where to find it. That would be an uncontestable reference.

- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.64.90.149 (talk)

I very much agree. I think this article is propagating unverified information, with sensationalist and clickbait media reports as sources. Doublestuff (talk) 21:23, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Since there are no objections, is there any other step I should take before deleting the sensationalist clickbait items? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.3.195.111 (talk) 23:27, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

I feel you have been vague about what you intend to remove. You can list what you intend to remove here, or just go ahead and do it and expect it to reverted, but then we would what elements you are talking about. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 03:49, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh wait you mean the list of foods sold there. Yea! That does look stupid now that I think about it. In fact it is like we are advertising the place. I am in favor of removing it. In fact I will do it now.Richard-of-Earth (talk) 04:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you Richard-of-Earth for cleaning that up. Too many western stereotypes about China and Chinese people creates real animosity here in China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.3.185.243 (talk) 04:55, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Map of the facility
I think we should add a description to the map showing the location of the market, and also resize the map slightly smaller. Is someone knowledgeable about the map temp to fix it? Pinging you for ideas, because you originally added the map to this article. Any suggestions?

I'm also pinging. Optakeover (U)(T)(C) 18:03, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea, I'm useless though, totally ignorant about how to do these maps - I just copied that one from the Chinese article. Victor Grigas (talk) 18:07, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Seafood ?
AFAIK, in China "seafood" is just an euphemism for bushmeat. This is probably the source of the confusion about what this market is. As everyone can see the market does not primarily sell fish, crab, or some other seafood. 2A02:587:3813:160C:D46B:4666:4E4D:1443 (talk) 23:59, 24 January 2020 (UTC)


 * That doesn't seems to be consistent with my understanding. C933103 (talk) 14:33, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * It is not a euphemism. Only seafood was officially allowed to be sold there. Bushmeat was prohibited to be sold there, but some people secretly sold bushmeat there despite the prohibition. After COVID-19 was found, media started to blame the weak enforcement of bushmeat prohibition. --Yejianfei (talk) 03:38, 8 March 2020 (UTC)


 * I live in China and have never heard this euphemism. Maybe the secondary-meaning exists in some places. However some serious evidence needs to be offered. comments by western news reporters who have never been to China is not a reasonable nor reliable source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.3.184.187 (talk) 22:46, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Current issues in the article

 * The point that the sale of exotic animals in the market being illegal is not cited. While some of the animals sold at the market were illegally traded, I found no source that says any of the animals (except civets) were banned for public health reasons. If sources are available which shows a ban on sale of exotic wild animals before the outbreak for health reasons, please add it to the point on illegal sales.


 * The New York Post did suggest that the image of the price list circulated online was not independently-verified, but the reliability of the website is under scrutiny at WP:RS/P. The included Channel NewsAsia source for the image did not mention this point, and I can’t find another source. If there is a reliable source that says the same thing, please include it. Optakeover (U)(T)(C) 21:50, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * ...I found this, which might help a little. Maybe best to take out what cannot be referenced. Whispyhistory (talk) 19:21, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

besides seafood?
There reads: According to media reports, besides seafood,[16] items sold at the market included: The list after that includes Crab, Fish, Shrimp and Striped bass To my understanding, these are all seafood. And, apparently seafood article seems to confirm that. 85.76.113.108 (talk) 04:57, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Please stop it! If you don't have a reference, don't make it up!
In Section Items Sold at the Market: for Pangolins Reference No. 26 is listed.

Nowhere in the article does it state, nor can it be inferred that Pangolins are sold at the Huanan Market.

The reference to Pangolins is exclusively as a suspected intermediate between bat and humans. That's it.

This is negligent citing, please stop! 71.221.167.115 (talk) 22:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

What exactly is the "kind of beaver" that is described as koala?
Is there a source on what exactly this is? It would be nice to link to its species. — Preceding unsigned comment added by QoopyQoopy (talk • contribs) 22:49, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

"Koalas are not found in China except in captivity." No source
The claim "Koalas are not found in China except in captivity." is unsourced. When Googling it I can't find anything other than this article, other websites quoting this article, or media reporting koalas being sold in China. Can someone source this or delete this? QoopyQoopy (talk) 22:53, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2020
add to "which may instead refer to a kind of beaver." in the "Items sold" footnotes QoopyQoopy (talk) 16:06, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * got autoconfirmed and did it myself QoopyQoopy (talk) 06:09, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Does "Koalas are not found in China except in captivity" need a citation?
I added to the claim "Koalas are not found in China except in captivity". The was then removed by Hongooi. We reverted each other once more. Now starting a discussion to avoid further edit warring. Does "Koalas are not found in China except in captivity" need a citation? QoopyQoopy (talk) 06:17, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * 1) Koalas are native to Australia (and can't be found anywhere else in the wild) :, ; therefore 2) Koalas are only found in captivity (zoo) in China: ; "树熊" being a translation for "koala" in Chinese: Collins dictionary. Optakeover (U)(T)(C) 14:04, 29 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Finally, for the name "树熊" being mentioned in the price list, refer to the price list sources. Optakeover (U)(T)(C) 14:08, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I think Koalas being native to Australia is obvious as the sky being blue.--Pestilence Unchained (talk) 05:35, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Dogs
The Business Insider claims that dogs were sold and references the South China Morning Post (SCMP).

However clicking on the actual link to SCMP doesn’t say anything about dog meat and just shows coronavirus numbers.

I will therefore remove dogs for now unless someone can find a source to confirm that dogs were for sale at this market. Doublestuff (talk) 21:16, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think dogs would be unusual either way, but if source doesn't have it removal is called for.--Pestilence Unchained (talk) 08:40, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Stating hypothesis as fact
"While there is scientific consensus that bats are the ultimate source of coronaviruses, SARS-CoV-2 originated from a pangolin, jumped back to bats, and then jumped to humans" Is there a way that this can be rewritten so that it does not state the path of transmission as an undeniable fact? See https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-origin-bats.html Also, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/28/how-did-the-coronavirus-start-where-did-it-come-from-how-did-it-spread-humans-was-it-really-bats-pangolins-wuhan-animal-market#maincontent DTLT (talk) 15:13, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Proximity of Wuhan Institute of Virology to Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market
Several months ago, I was able to easily enter both the Virology Institute's location and the Seafood Market's location into Google Maps and learned that they were within either 200 feet or 200 meters of each other (I forget which). Today I want to show this to someone and tried to duplicate showing the route from one to the other in Google Maps and have had a lot of trouble doing this. The 1st time I did it, you could find one location and easily read that the other was quite close, but now if I find one location, I'm not able to find the other visually, and I am also unable to get Google Maps to show both at the same time, where I used to be able to do this. I'm quite certain of this. I used to be able to do this, and now I cannot. Neither the Wikipedia Article on the Virology Institute, nor this Article (Seafood Market) references the other in terms of their relative proximity to each other. 1) What's a reliable source for this information and 2) How to get this information included into both Articles? Thanks in advance. 2605:6000:6FC0:25:80DF:B3F:F9BC:2D28 (talk) 19:58, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * We are not here to promote conspiracy theories advanced by the U.S. far-right. Caradhras Aiguo ( leave language ) 20:21, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You are confusing the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) with a different facility. Reliable sources do not appear to be consistent on the exact distance between the WIV and the market but it is certainly much more than 200 metres. According to Snopes, the WIV is "located about 7 miles from the Huanan market" and the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention is less than a mile from the market. PolitiFact says the WIV is "about 8.5 miles from the animal market". CowHouse (talk) 04:11, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I think this information should be included in the Article.2605:6000:6FC0:25:80DF:B3F:F9BC:2D28 (talk) 04:32, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Misinterpretation of source regarding market reopening
The Wiki article currently states "However, it was reported on 14 April 2020 that despite seemingly being closed permanently the market had in fact reopened, as well as several other wet markets in China." The source provided is the following NZ Herald article: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12324675. However, the NZ Herald article states "Wet markets in China, LIKE the one where the Covid-19 outbreak is believed to have originated from, have reopened despite global pressure for them to remain closed." (emphasis mine). This suggests other wet markets have reopened but not the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market. The Wiki article as it is currently written is misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smige2 (talk • contribs) 12:16, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * this article from Epoch Times makes it clear that the market is closed as of the 6th of September unless google translate is way off. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 18:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Very few live animals in the market
This point needs complete rewriting, there were only a few live animals. Citing occidental medias isn't quite the best approach to understand the market. 2A01:E0A:852:9590:C9E2:925C:D4A6:83E4 (talk) 04:49, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Hilarious. Let’s trust a communist news outlet instead. Alexandermoir (talk) 22:00, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Who said that? Let's trust primary sources http://babarlelephant.free-hoster.net/visiting-the-wuhan-seafood-market/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E0A:349:7C00:A593:345E:5949:C4DF (talk) 20:24, 23 December 2022 (UTC)