Talk:Hubert Lyautey

quote
Is there any proof that the famous dialect-quote is really from Lyautey? Most other sources on the internet seem to attribute it to Max Weinreich or Joshua Fishman, see for example http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Linguistics/armynavy.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.95.224.122 (talk • contribs) 10:01, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Where did Lyautey make his statement on dialect and language?
Max Weinreich clearly attributed the statement with which he is so frequently credited, to an auditor at one of his lectures. The description of that person does not appear to fit Joshua Fishman. See item 6 at http://shakti.trincoll.edu/~mendele/vol15/vol15022.htm. The attribution to Lyautey is also frequently made and chronologically he could be a prior source. However, the online assertions do not provide a bibliographic reference for Lyautey's statement. Can the author of the present article provide this?

Quote about trees
I thought the tree quote was from Napoléon? At least I've seen it attributed to the emperor... fdewaele 30 May 2006, 16:00 CET.

"The Garrison of the 13th Parachute Dragoon Regiment is named after him."
Source needed. pascalvenier 19 December 2008 00:08 GMT. —Preceding undated comment was added at 00:09, 20 December 2008 (UTC).

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

LGBT????
Without firm evidence I have removed this category. If he was indeed homosexual or bisexual, in late 19th century France this would have been a huge deal. V. Joe (talk) 16:15, 25 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure I read once that he was gay, although I forget where. More culpably the article makesno mention of his role in the Nivelle Affair - will post some stuff shortly.Paulturtle (talk) 20:55, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * From memory, his contribution to the gaiety of the French nation would have been mentioned in the Griffith biog of Petain, which I read in 1995, but sadly don't have a copy to hand, so I can't really post it. It's not mentioned in the books I have to hand on the French role in WW1 (Doughty, Clayton, etc). If anyone has a source, IIRC there is also a splendidly bitchy quote by somebody (Clemenceau?) about how he always had balls between his legs, even if they were someone else's.Paulturtle (talk) 00:38, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * He was a confirmed homosexual. You don't know anything about late 19th century and early 20th century France.
 * I assume that was aimed at the previous poster, not me.Paulturtle (talk) 00:38, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Meaning
This sentence, which appears in the 'Early life' section, para 1, caught my eye: "He made his career serving in the colonies and not in metropolitan France, a more prestigious assignment." I presume that 'metropolitan France' was the 'more prestigious assignment', not 'the colonies'. If so, this part of the article could be made more clear by simply adding: 'which was' between 'France' and 'a'. I'd do it myself, but I don't want to change the meaning if it's wrong.

RASAM (talk) 19:34, 20 March 2012 (UTC)


 * You can go ahead and make changes like that -- if someone objects, it can always be reverted. I've made the change now - your interpretation of the meaning was correct. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:54, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Oil stain??
At times, both French and American officers (e.g. Gen. Maxwell Taylor) advocated the strategy of establishing fortified "enclaves" along the coast, and gradually working inland, until the whole country was supposedly pacified. Every time I have come across the French term, it has been expressed in English as if it were a stain, or a smudge, or a spot, but something messy. I'm not sure of the literary value of purposely using a negative image to express a positive goal. Now I'm reading Lyautey's letters, and it suddenly occurred to me that it might instead refer to pouring oil on "troubled waters" to calm them, which fits much better with the idea of pacification. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Terry J. Carter (talk) 19:51, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Your point is an interesting one, but Wikipedia is not here to establish new terminology or usages. If every time you come across the concept in English it's in some version of oil stain, oil smudge or oil spot, then we need to stick with those usages.  If, however, you come across a different formulation in a reliable source with more positive imagery, then you should feel free to use it in the article.  Otherwise, I think it needs to stay as is. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:05, 24 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Agree for now. Just found "patch" of oil on page 108 of the le Blond translation of "Intimate Letters."  I've got a lot more reading to do in this area, so I'll keep you posted.  Terry J. Carter (talk) 22:13, 24 November 2013 (UTC)


 * "Patch" is less pejorative. What's the original French term? Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:48, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Contradiction?
On the threat of war in 1914, he was quoted as telling his officers: 'They are completely mad. A war between Europeans is a civil war. This is the most monumental foolishness that they have ever done.' But then: 'Like many professional soldiers, he disliked the Third Republic, and welcomed the outbreak of war “because the politicians have shut up".'

Did he have a change of heart? Valetude (talk) 18:10, 22 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I doubt he changed his mind. I should think his views were just a bit more nuanced than might be suggested by two separate quotes in two separate books. He wasn't too chuffed about the prospect of a major European war but at the same time, like many French right-wingers and army officers, disliked the Third Republic.Paulturtle (talk) 22:13, 24 April 2015 (UTC)