Talk:Hugh Dowding

Nationality
Dowding is Scottish. (He is also British). That is his nationality. Wallie (talk) 11:05, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * As stated before to you Wallie he was born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain - he is British; this would be the correct and most accurate piece of information. I also disagree with your new category as Dowding, considering the nationalility issue, as there has never been a Scottish air force (in a military sence).--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 12:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * He is also a Scottish national. You are getting nationality confused with "allegiance" in the Wikipedia definition of this term. Dowding's natonality is both Scottish and British. If you don't believe me, have a look at the Wiki Dictionary definition of nationality. Wallie (talk) 14:33, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Scotland does not issue passports and Scotland has no airforce. Please review WP:Point. This is getting boring Kernel Saunters (talk) 14:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry. You did not read what I said. Dowding does have Scottish nationality as well as British. That is a fact. Scotland is a country. Wallie (talk) 15:49, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Completely irrelevant! You don’t seem to understand how it works in this country – the United Kingdom of Great Britain – we are all officially British nationals and nothing else. The nationality shown on our passports state that regardless of if we are English, N.Irish, Scottish or Welsh – we are British.
 * The route you are heading down is into a discussion into modern day nationalism that has nothing to do with this historical figure.--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 16:09, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No. That is not my intention. It is important to point out that Dowding is Scottish. England has plenty of its own heroes like Churchill and Harris. Dowding is a Scots hero, and should be recognized as such. Passports are only one aspect of nationality. EU citizens have a EU passport. Are you suggesting they are all EU nationals? You see. You cannot equate passports with nationality, or just being in passports when it happens to suit your argument. Wallie (talk) 16:50, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Not your intention? Well its only people like the BNP etc that harp on about stuff like this.
 * Have you issued a survey or have the results of a survey conducted in Scotland that shows this man being a "Scottish hero"?. If not i don’t think you should speak on behalf a country i don’t believe you are from. At any rate Dowding is honoured with a statue in the centre of London.
 * As for Churchill, he isnt an "English" hero he is a British hero and i doubt Harris has ever been considered a hero by the country (even though i do believe his actions were generally correct). I suggest that you look upon this list 100 Greatest Britons; to note a few notable non-English (and in some cases non-British) "heroes": the Tudors, whose family is primarily of Welsh descent (although you could also argue Norman decent), Queen Liz II and Victoria both of whom most British people like to mock because there "German", Alfred the Great - a German (well a Saxon king), Flemming - a Scot, Owain Glyndŵr - an other Welshmen, William Wallace - a proper Scottish hero. The country has a right mixture of heroes of multiple nationalities prior to the kingdoms all merging and even afterwards the country has heroes from all sections.
 * I suggest you also go and look at the current leader and past leader of the country and even Douglas Haig (an outstanding commander imo) and note down what they have in common regardless of where in the United Kingdom they were born.
 * It has also been pointed out to you several times, by people better qualified than you, that you are indeed incorrect to carry on a personnel crusade to reduce every member of the United Kingdom down to whether they are English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish – this country is about unity.
 * Your lack of knowledge about my country (The United Kingdom of Great Britain) is overwhelming!--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 19:55, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Jan Smuts who was instrumental in the founding of the RAF was a South African, and he, like Dowding, was also a British subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.55.51 (talk) 09:06, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I propose changing the lede to this article. It is wholly inconsistent to describe Dowding as a 'Scottish officer' when other military leaders are not given the same appellation. For example, Haig, Horne, Hunter-Weston and Hamilton-Gordon were all senior Scottish generals of the Great War. None of them are described as a 'Scottish officer', but as (for example) 'a senior officer of the British Army'.
 * Similarly, William Slim is not described as an 'English officer', or Kitchener as an 'Irish officer', or Richard Saul as 'a Scottish officer of the RAF'. I propose that for the sake of consistency the opening sentence is re-worked to a more neutral description. It is quite clear from the body of the text and the info box that Dowding was born in Scotland, it seems otiose to unduly stress this point. HenryPulleine (talk) 09:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Scottish air marshals
Please discuss. Wallie (talk) 15:48, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Discuss what. You need to do more than give us a rather obscure title for us to discuss something. Skinny87 (talk) 16:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * After some looking about in the history, I agree with the above - that category is nonsensical and poorly worded. As it is now, it would seem to hint at some sort of Scottish airforce and their commanders. Skinny87 (talk) 16:04, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It does not. It is a category for Scottish people who are Air Marshals. It does not mention a Scottish Air Force. Wallie (talk) 16:20, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's implied in the title, Wallie, and it's still a poorly-worded category. I'd suggest renaming it. Skinny87 (talk) 16:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What to? Wallie (talk) 16:51, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not brilliant, but you need to get rid of the implication that they're Air Marshals of a Scottish air force. Perhaps 'Air Marshals (Scottish) perhaps, or 'Air Marshals born in Scotland'? The latter might be the best. Skinny87 (talk) 16:58, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Excellent article
How does one nominate an article for 'article of the day' or similar? This is very very good.

Needs more pre-WWII detail
This article really ought to have more detail on his work before WWII in virtually creating the Fighter Command of 1940. E.g. it briefly mentions that he 'favoured' radar (or some words to that effect), but he had much more of an active role in its creation and uptake than that, as Air Member for Research and Development in 1935, where he undertook to fully fund the work immediately after the Daventry test, which led to the creation of Bawdsey. And his role in the acquisition of the 8-gun monoplane fighters was also very large.

I don't think it's too gilding the lily to say that he first created the tools, then from 1936 forged them into a integrated system (the warning and command-control system of Fighter Command), and finally commanded it during the most important battle of WWII.

I am a bit too busy to do this at the moment, but if nobody else steps up, I can do it - I have all the right references (all the Dowding/Fighter command books; all the early radar books by Bowen, Watson-Watt, etc; a good collection of Spitfire/Hurricane books, etc). Noel (talk) 18:03, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The detail on his creation of the Ground-controlled interception (GCI) is now comprehensive. Dormskirk (talk) 14:13, 23 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Dowding's air defence method using radar is/was known as the 'Dowding System'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.31.130.17 (talk) 10:45, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Book - Twelve Legions of Angels?
Did the book, "Twelve Legions of Angles" have anything of importance in it? As the British government suppressed it until after the war, it would appear that it did. I Goggled it, but didn't find much.--TGC55 (talk) 17:55, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * it may be that the UK Government was simply sensitive about the release of information on UK military locations. Dormskirk (talk) 14:14, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

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Coat of arms
The image doesn't match the description. The blazon describes a falcon and a flier-de-lis, neither of which are present. I propose deleting the image until a better one can be found. Richard75 (talk) 23:47, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Clash with Trenchard
After the Battle of the Somme, Dowding clashed with General Hugh Trenchard, the commander of the RFC, over the need to give pilots some rest and recuperation.
 * Which of them was advocating R&R? Valetude (talk) 11:36, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Dunno, but I've just been reading about his clash with Trenchard in Trevor Wilson's "Myriad Faces of War". Late during the Somme battle Dowding expressed his displeasure with Trenchard's costly and probably wasteful policy of having fighter planes raid aggressively deep into German territory. Trenchard thought him a foot-dragger. Wilson's view is basically that Trenchard's charisma and force of character greatly exceeded his competence.Paulturtle (talk) 21:07, 23 December 2022 (UTC)