Talk:Hugh Sung

Hang on
This article is about a leading faculty member of one of the most prestigious music conservatories in the USA. In addition to his musical contributions, he is playing a significant role in introducing innovative technologies to enhance the performance, pedagogy and cultural dissemination of Classical Music.


 * Are you Hugh Sung? -FisherQueen (Talk) 04:12, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this article was authored by Hugh Sung

Please refer to credentials on the Curtis website here:


 * How do you think that the WP:AUTO guideline applies to this article? -FisherQueen (Talk) 04:15, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

All events and references in this article are accurate and verifiable. I can delete questionable adjectives to maintain a more neutral tone if necessary (ie, "passionate", etc.), but given the direct connections to numerous established classical musicians and institutions contained in the subject of this article, i would request consideration to maintain its presence in the Wikipedia. Many thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hughsung (talk • contribs) 04:20, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * How do you think that WP:COI applies to this article? &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 04:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your inquiry - upon reviewing the WP:COI guidelines, i can understand why self-authorship can pose serious questions regarding the neutrality of the article. I would certainly be open to suggestions on editing the article to be more in compliance with the spirit of Wikipedia - this is my first article and quite a learning experience! Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions. -HughSung —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 04:45, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The simplest way is to not edit the article itself, but to suggest any edits, along with reliable, third party, sources to back up this information here in the talk page. In fact, right now, I would suggest that you find such sources for what's been written so far and put them here.  Then other editors can review, discuss, and add them as appropriate. &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 04:50, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Here are some source references for your consideration:

Philadelphia Daily News article reference collaboration between flutist Jeffry Khaner and Hugh Sung

Listings of CD recordings available through Amazon.com


 * Not a reliable, third-party source, nor should it be linked per  the external links  guideline, as it is a sales site. Additionally, any reviews on the site are not reliable, third-party sources. Ariel ♥  Gold 07:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Article from www.Sequenza21.com in reference to Hugh Sung's experimental work with live visualization techniques for classical music performance

Review page containing reference to Hugh Sung's participation in developing piano modeling software Pianoteq

References from composer Jennifer Higdon's website to Hugh Sung's participation in CD recordings of her work


 * Personal website of Jennifer Higdon - Not a reliable, third party source, but can be linked in External links section. Ariel ♥ Gold 07:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Reference to Hugh Sung's bio from violinist Aaron Rosand's website


 * Personal website of Aaron Rosand - Not a reliable, third party source, but can be linked in External links section. Ariel ♥ Gold 07:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Liner notes from violinist Hilary Hahn's CD referencing Hugh Sung's collaborative participation in the project

Journal article from Hilary Hahn's online journal referencing collaboration with Hugh Sung


 * While this is a sony URL, it is a personal journal, so probably not a reliable, third party source, but can be linked in External links section. Ariel ♥ Gold 20:55, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Interview by www.TabletPC.it Italian online news site with Hugh Sung
 * In Italian, so can't be used as a primary source, but can be used as a source that shows your involvement. Ariel ♥ Gold 20:55, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Article from www.GottaBeMobile.com
 * Blog - not a reliable source. Can be linked in External links. Ariel ♥ Gold 07:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Please let me know if these references suffice, or if you need more information/sources. Many thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hughsung (talk • contribs) 05:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Additional records available through Avie Records - collaborations with flutist Jeffrey Khaner

-HughSung —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 05:10, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Not a reliable source, and should not be linked in external links, because it is a site with the goal of sales. Ariel ♥ Gold 07:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Evaluation

 * This looks like a good start, I, and some other editors will need some time to go through and check them out. One thing I want to reiterate though, to help avoid others accusing you of WP:COI issues, I recommend that you don't edit the article any more at all whatsoever.  Not even to add categories or other templates.  The only exception to that would be if there is something defamatory that is unsourced - then, of course, feel free to remove that.  (However, if something appears that you don't like, but someone provides a reliable source for it, do not remove it)  Thank you for your willingness to work with us in this. Not all editors who want to have articles about themselves (even if they are legitimately notable) are as gracious as you have been once you've learnt a bit more about how things work here.  One last thing, when you make a comment on a talk page, please sign it by using four tildes ( ~ ).  Thank you &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 06:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added initial evaluations of the sources, denoting which are appropriate, and which are not. The policies and guidelines covering this are the reliable sources policy, and the verifiability policy, as well as the external links guideline. Some can be used, and the question of notability is to me, at least, fully satisfied. However, I would encourage you to refrain from editing the article yourself, as it has been explained, it would be very difficult for you to be completely neutral. Any and all suggestions that you have here on the talk page would be wonderful, and there are more than enough editors around who will gladly take them into account and add them to the article if appropriate. Keep in mind that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it is not for self-promotion, it is just to report facts, and as such, the article may not be as "flashy" as what you would see on other sites such as blogs or personal websites. While your enthusiasm is most appreciated, and we hope that you'll continue to contribute, especially I think you'd be of great help with music related articles, with this article specifically, as it is about you, I think a cup of restraint, and a teaspoon of patience will be helpful. If you're amenable to this, I'd be more than happy to go through all of these sources, and format the article per the manual of style, citing the references where available. Any other news articles you can obtain would be most helpful, especially any that discuss your early life, etc., as those things need to be verified, per the biographies of living persons policy. I also wish to thank you for your civility and understanding at what must seem to be some very strange policies, and I look forward to discussions in the future. Cheers, Ariel ♥ Gold 07:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm deeply impressed by the high level of integrity and scholarship required for wikipedia articles, as well as the careful scrutiny by so many editors! This is actually inspiring me to seriously consider making further contributions about other noteworthy musicians and composers that are deserving of inclusion in this body of knowledge. Thanks all for being patient with me as i slowly learn how to write and present references in a neutral, non-biased format. Hopefully i'll do a better job when i start writing and contributing info about other subjects in the classical music field (as well as technologies for classical musicians). In the meantime, i'll try to work on more references for this current article that hopefully comply with your stipulations. Thanks again for all your time and effort - and especially your help! Hughsung 12:33, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[user:hughsung|Hugh Sung]

Quick question: may i add photographs to the current article? i would like to include an example of the work done with the Visual Recital projects already referenced. No text would be altered in the current article as requested, only the addition of a footnote with the added picture if allowed. Please advise - the picture looks like this:



Hughsung 13:12, 29 September 2007 (UTC)Hugh Sung


 * We'd love to have you stick around- we can always use good editors who know about classical music. You might find WikiProject Classical music an interesting bunch of people who are working on those articles together, too.  I stuck a standard welcome message on your talk page, with links to assorted information that's useful for new editors- please feel free to ask on my talk page if you have questions or issues. -FisherQueen (Talk) 13:16, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks so much for being so welcoming (with high standards!) All the very best, Hughsung 13:20, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

ICU tag
I've added the {tl|icu}} tag because in its current state, it is in danger of being deleted. I'm more trying to bring it to the attention of others who want to improve it rather than making a judgment on its potential. &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 19:34, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Images
Regarding your question about images. Basic pages for you to review: Help:Images, uploading images, image copyright tags, Image use policy, Media copyright questions, and fair use. Items such as album covers especially, will require extensive fair use rationale, explaining why they should be included, and that is an area that you'll really want to read through and understand. Also, the bottom line is that first, this is an article about you, the person. It is not an article about your albums or concerts, although certainly, those are components of the article. But images serve to better illustrate the subject, and as such, generally speaking for most medium sized biographies, only one image is needed, that of the person who is the subject. I'm going to go in and do some work to the article, and hopefully get it looking a bit more like most biography articles. Ariel ♥ Gold 20:34, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The three images on the article may be deleted if proper source, and copyright tags are not added: Image:Hughsunginsidegrand.JPG, Image:VisualRecitalBrazil2006.jpg, and Image:Hughsungcolor.jpg. Please be sure to take care of this within a couple of days, or they may need to be removed, thanks! Ariel ♥  Gold 21:27, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Second opinion requested
I initially thought that this URL: http://www.gottabemobile.com/HughSungMakingMusicInHisLifeWithInk.aspx would not be a WP:RS, but I'd like a couple other editors to look it over. While it does appear to be a blog, it seems that this is actually a site that reports widely on the use and applications of Tablet PCs, and the news associated with them. I'm thinking it may be used as a source that backs up the Italian language reference. Thoughts? I'm going to add it, but anyone who disagrees is free to move it to external links instead. Ariel ♥ Gold 21:00, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Looking at http://www.gottabemobile.com/custom.aspx?=aboutus gives me confidence that they take care with editorial overview, which brings them into the realm of a reliable source. &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 04:36, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I went to the main page, and while it is a blog type page, it seems to be a respected news source for this technology, which gave me confidence to add it. Thanks Timothy! Ariel ♥ Gold 04:41, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

External link question
Regarding this external link:
 * Sung's video podcast series highlighting tech for musicians and interviews with prominent artists in the Classical Music field

the external links guideline states:


 * It is acceptable to link to pages rendered in normal HTML or plain text. Check that the content type of the linked page is "text/html", "text/plain", or "application/xhtml+xml" (or another XHTML content type) as some pages may instead be rendered solely by platform-dependent plugins. Try to avoid directly linking to any content that requires special software, or an add-on to a browser. It is always preferred to link to a page rendered in normal HTML that contains embedded links to the rich media.

There are some exceptions listed, and I'd just like opinions of whether this could possibly violate any copyright issues, or because this is primarily a page with only video information, if it shouldn't be added because it requires external software/add-on to view. Ariel ♥ Gold 21:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I don't think there's any copyright violation issues. It's not that we can't link to copyrighted material, it's that we can't link to sites that have copyright material that they have in violation of that copyright.  So, as long as they can have the material legitimately, that's not a problem.  You're not linking directly to the video itself, the rich media is embedded, so that meets with the preference.  I've not had time to fully watch the video, but if it demonstrates some aspect of the tech that would benefit understanding, particularly in a way that is an improvement over a text description, or has relevant information for which we do not have a transcript or other source, then it's appropriate to include (I suspect it will be, given the audio-visual nature of the tech, but hard to know for sure until I've reviewed the entire piece).  With that in mind, it then is a matter of getting the appropriate way to cite it, which would be mentioning it's video, how long it is, and that it requires Shockwave/flash to view. &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 04:50, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Question for Hugh
http://jc.uol.com.br/2006/12/14/not_126696.php That's a news article from Brazil. Did you tour there in 2006? As it is in another language (is that Spanish?) I can't tell what exactly it is about, but if that's somewhere you've toured we can include that in the tour place list. Ariel ♥ Gold 21:21, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Answer to ArielGold
Yes, i toured Brazil actually twice - in 2005 and 2006. The picture from the visual recital was from the 2006 tour in Recife (language is Portuguese, i believe). Many thanks - i'll get working on the image copyright tags as well. 69.242.62.240 22:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC) Oops, forgot to sign in to get my tag working properly! Hughsung 22:09, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, working on another project at the moment, but I'll get that added into the article by tonight. Thanks Hugh! Ariel ♥ Gold 22:16, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright tag questions
Um, i'm not sure if i did this correctly - can someone take a look and let me know if i need to provide any additional information for the copyright tags? Image:Hughsunginsidegrand.JPG, Image:VisualRecitalBrazil2006.jpg, and Image:Hughsungcolor.jpg
 * Many thanks to everyone helping with this article - i'm humbled and honored by your expertise! Hughsung 22:24, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yep, they look fine. Just remove the 'no copyright' yello box thing from the image, and add only the GFDL one. Good work! Chase me ladies, I&#39;m the Cavalry 22:28, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * i removed the "untagged" thingy - correct? Thanks again for your help!! Hughsung 22:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep that works. Ariel ♥ Gold 22:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Additional Newspaper resources
I'm digging up more newspaper references for past work - i'm listing them as i find them, please let me know if there is a "more correct way" to do this:


 * ARRANGING PIANO AS VIOLIN PARTNER

Source:   Daniel Webster, INQUIRER MUSIC CRITIC Published on 1992-12-15, Page F02, Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA) This article references recital performance with violinist Aaron Rosand


 * VIOLINIST DANCHENKO AT CURTIS

Source:   Daniel Webster, INQUIRER MUSIC CRITIC Published on 1999-02-22, Page C09, Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA) This article references a recital performance with violinist Victor Danchenko

More to come as i dig into other newspaper archives... Hughsung 22:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If you have URLs to go with them that helps as well. Ariel ♥ Gold 22:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I suspect there won't be URLs, given the age of the newspaper article, but knowing what statements either already in the WP article, or that you wish to include in it, that they are supporting would be useful. &mdash; Timotab Timothy (not Timdagnabbit!) 04:54, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I found some additional articles covering Hugh Sung's early artistic life:

"From hardened musical pros, an ovation for an amateur"

Coverage of Sung's debut performance with the Philadelphia Orchestra at age 11. Source: Edgar Williams, Philadelphia Inquirer Staff Writer, Published on Saturday, Oct. 18, 1980 Page 1-B, Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA)

"Orchestra Brings New Life to Beethoven"

Review of Sung's performance of Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-flat major, Op. 73 with the South Jersey Symphony Orchestra Source: James Rutherford, Staff writer, published on March 21, 1988, Atlantic City Press (NJ)

"Old-Fashioned Violin Recital At Herbst"

Review of recital with violinist Aaron Rosand and pianist Hugh Sung Source: Robert Commanday, Chronicle Music Critic, Published on Tuesday, February 20, 1990, San Francisco Chronicle (CA)

These articles may be too old to have URL references. Hope these help! Hughsung 14:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Hugh Sung. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071128100241/http://jc.uol.com.br:80/2006/12/14/not_126696.php to http://jc.uol.com.br/2006/12/14/not_126696.php
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.philly.com/dailynews/features/20070921_Jeffrey_Khaner_to_take_the_spotlight.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071217195500/http://www.sonyclassical.com:80/music/89029/notes.html to http://www.sonyclassical.com/music/89029/notes.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.sequenza21.com/index.php/261
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.gottabemobile.com/HughSungMakingMusicInHisLifeWithInk.aspx

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Hugh Sung. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080705211716/http://www.visualrecital.com/ to http://visualrecital.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929231409/http://musicmeetstech.blip.tv/ to http://musicmeetstech.blip.tv/
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20061122020051/http://www.sonyclassical.com/artists/hahn/journal/101700.html to http://www.sonyclassical.com/artists/hahn/journal/101700.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110312184611/http://www.pianoforum.it/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=INTERNAZIONALI to http://www.pianoforum.it/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=INTERNAZIONALI
 * Added tag to http://www.pianoforum.it/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1302232938

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