Talk:Human rights in Vietnam/Archive 1

This is the worse page i have ever seen
This is the worse anti-communist propaganda, bias page I have ever seen. Unbelievable! I think some people just get so brainwash by the Western media and the anti-communist community in the US. Please go to Vietnam and see for yourself, with your own eyes, talk to our people and listen to them with your own ears. Ok?70.251.188.84 (talk) 02:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I've been to Viet Nam as a volunteer, and I've seen the crap that happens there. The people are too afraid or in many cases very misinformed about what happens in Vietnam, if anything Vietnamese people like to say to foreigners that they're happy, because it's embarrassing (or worst impossible) to say anything else. I've spoken to University students at their homes where they are able to express in hush tones exactly how they feel about the Government. In many cases they know they can't say anything bad, as one of them put "Lets not talk about it, I don't wanna die". This is not Anti-communist propaganda, it's the truth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.215.58.221 (talk) 14:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's the truth ? You got to be kidding me? I went to Vietnam every summer. My whole family and relatives are in Vietnam. What you said about Vietnam is a joke. This human rights page is a joke. I can't believe this. This is just unbelievable. 70.129.203.95 (talk) 01:43, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, Wikipedia relies mainly on referencing, and the whole information on the page comes from US Department of State and Human Right Watch and the likes. One same thing can look quite different depending on viewpoint and occasion, so I guess here we have the human rights situation in Vietnam through the eyes of people in the US government. Those who want to see "the truth", just come to the place and experience yourself. Personally though, as a Vietnamese student I have been bad-mouthing the government quite freely in classes and even in public, without a single problem. Other people do so in a more pacific and restrained tone on newspapers almost on a weekly basis. The only thing that keeps me from talking all day is that no matter how much you speak of the problem, changes take time, and in some case it just seems to take forever. As for other issues, all I can say is that it happens here and there in almost every countries, especially the poor. Child labor is clearly still a problem, however it depends on the case. Sometimes not allowing the children to work means they won't have meat for dinner. Discrimination against women is still there somewhere in rural areas, but almost a fairy tale in cities. The whole thing about religious repression is pure crap, only this I can assure. There's no oppression or discrimination of any kind toward a particular religion as such. However, some people are usually liable to mix religion with other not very religious things, and some other just feel obliged to use their religion to explain for some uncomfortable treatment they received due to their non-religious activities. And at last, for my friend who has come to Vietnam and witnessed "the truth", I don't know whether I or your story is the older one but you should really come back again and talk to people here for a try. Whatever the case, Vietnamese people are quite the joking type so just pay more attention when talking to them. Best wishes.Hawkie (talk) 12:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Dinh Thoai Yen Vy
Found on the web:
 * Hanoi - Vietnamese police have sent a singer/actress to "re-education camp" in a widening crackdown on rampant prostitution, just months after she created a scandal with a home-made sex video, state newspapers said on Friday. Police detained Dinh Thoai Yen Vy and sent her immediately to "re-eduction camp" for sex workers on evidence she was involved in a high-class call girl ring charging $500 to $1,000, they said.

The tape in question is widely available on the 'net and the peer-to-peer networks. It does not appear that she was a sex worker, but just the victim of an old boyfriend who posted a homemade sex tape. 70.20.238.20 02:48, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

There were strong evidence that Yen Vy worked for a high-class call girl ring. Her phonenumber was saved in a phone's pimp, and that pimp confessed that she had organized many "businesses" for Yen Vy. She also pleaded guilty in the court. That's extremely clear, I don't know why you are so fool!Kenshin top (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:35, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Piece Of Crap!
Yes, PoC!

I'm a Vietnamese, borned in the new generation of Vietnam (Đổi mới era). I have to complain something before I get myself angry.

1\First, about Freedom Of Legion. It was told by some Vietnamese guys in USA who wants to makes Communist in Vietnam collapsed and rule Vietnam by themself. In fact, there is no suppressing in Legion. True.

2007

International Christian Concern (ICC), a Washington-DC based human rights group has ranked Vietnam in list of the world’s top ten worst persecutors of Christians (ICC’s Hall of Shame Awards [1] )

WHAT???? I CAN' BELIEVE IT! MY FRIEND'S WHOLE FAMILY JOINED CHRISTIAN, EXCEPT MY FRIEND BUT NOTHING HAPPENED TO HIM BECAUSE HE CAN CHOOSE WHETHER HE JOIN IT OR NOT! AND ONE MORE IMPORTANT THING! HASN'T GEORGE W.BUSH HIMSELF GOING TO A CHRISTIAN CHURCH IN VIETNAM ON SUNDAY AND REALIZE THAT VIETNAM DOESN'T SUPPRESSING CHRISTIAN PEOPLE? THAT SOURCE IS A SHAME!

Discrimination against women and ethnic minorities, child labor, and prostitution are serious problems

citation needed!Against women and ethic minorities? CRAP! Child labor? Never in the next-gen of Vietnam! Prostitution? They are going to be re-educated. But, when they are being re-educated, a lot of them have a new better life, because when they are being re-educated means they are trained basic skills for a job tomorrow like sewing, repairing... Don't thing "re-educated camp" is "concentration camp"
 * Lol, I agree. What are those losers complaining about human rights and re-education camps in VN anyway? The Americans themselves even put Japanese Americans in concentration (internment, same shit) camps in WWII while they're fighting the real Japanese 10000 miles away!

And one more thing. Double, triple or more check when listening to some anti-Vietnam group by Vietnamese people said. After listening to them, better go check yourself. Hoaxes.

Yeah i argree with you about the re-ecducated thing.People complaining about the human rights and re-education in Vietnam because the Communist had done the worst thing to them, and they are OUR people. The Americans treated the japanese americans really nice even they are prisoner of war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.211.184.198 (talk) 15:59, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

The re-education camp is nothing but concentration camp. My granddad was there, he was a major, he could have escaped in '75 but he decided to stay and fight the goddamn Vietcongs instead. He got sent to the re-education camp for 20 years (was released in '95 and settled in the U.S the same year with H.O program.) They didn't give him any food to eat, instead, they force him to eat rotten vegetables, he almost died once. After he was released, he ate almost anything he could find. In '75, he was 180 pounds (6'2 tall) and by the time he got out of there ('95), he was 60 pounds and 5'5 tall. He had to carry a lot of things on his back, like woods(a lot of woods), they shorten him. To the 3rd person who said that Vietnam is not suppressing religion, how about Thai Hoa, Ha Noi? And to the first person who said that he/she was born after Doi Moi, let me ask you a question, have you seen anybody said "Nguyen Tan Dung is my biiatch? No. That's what I thoughtI am me 13:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jasonbourn48 (talk • contribs)

Translation
This article is well referenced from trustful sources.

It should be translated to Vietnamese wiki.

Human right problems of Vietnam from 1975-1995 should also be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.48.172.104 (talk) 01:10, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your supportive suggestion, yet the article, I think, still need more requiring citations as regarded at the top of the article, otherwise it will get deletion due to "Deletion policy".The Impeccable (talk) 09:48, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Worst english wiki page I ve ever read
To the best of my knowledge and experience, the page is the most biased I have read on wiki. I think it should be deleted. Please vote... Trananh1980 (talk) 06:06, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

This can't be trust
This page express their views too narrow and source all come from someone "I don't like Vietnam's government" and all from the West since Vietnam in East? Well more than 50% info in this page can't be truth, why not try to use use some another source around Vietnam.Tnt1984 (talk) 08:29, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Very nice report written by country who always say freedom and safety but brought war all over the world and prison, torture poor people they get and still say human right is their top priority to take care for world? Yeah right if they say their human right is mirror for everyone follow then this world can have world war 3 with civil everywhere.Tnt1984 (talk) 09:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

the point of view of a Vietnamese
I am a Vietnamese but I will will try to be objective. Indeed, the way Vietnamese government handle opposition is a little bit harsh. But after all, democracy is about the majority having the power, and I can assure you at least 90% of Vietnamese support the government. You can say that there are 10% left but changing the government always result in violence, history has proven that. Also having only one party has some advantage, because that means the country is united unlike other countries with many party. Also this might surprise you but for me manifestation is a violation of the law. Liberty has it's limit: you can do anything as long as is don't have a consequence on other people. But manifestation means blocking road street... And of course it will have an impact on other people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.250.99.172 (talk) 22:56, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Misc comments, gathered on 5/15/11 and put under single header

 * Note: These miscellaneous comments were gathered at the top of the page, unheaded, and mixed in with the wikiproject banners. So I've gathered them together below. They shouldn't necessarily be read as in response to one another. Khazar (talk) 19:56, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Some body ranking international organization by ranking of Alexa, please do not do that. Alexa is ranking of website traffic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fisherprice123 (talk • contribs) 00:58, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * For my sight that rank is also tell how well-know international organization have been acknowledge, if they well-know their website rank should be high and if no one know about them so their rank is bad quite simple.Tnt1984 (talk) 10:26, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Wiki will be rotten by unknowledgable persons like you. Please check your English when you want to revise the content in English wiki. Ranking in Alexa can be also ranking in reputation : I never heard anyone saying that before lol. Anyway, do not make Vietnamese ashamed because the stupidness of you. :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fisherprice123 (talk • contribs) 05:43, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It's so good to in wiki still have someone have "hot blood" like this. I may have bad at write english but I can read all of them you know I may maybe "stupidness" but I still know how the entire world understand wrong way by just only one word, if you see my write wrong please repair that, that will make page better. If you want to write an idea of some organization say about another organization just go ahead all I want first it's that organization should have page in wiki for can easy check who are them, what they done, how they do after that you can write whatever you want because if not they just unknown and unknown can't be trust for my sight. Have fun to write in wiki I hope you enjoy it like me.Tnt1984 (talk) 09:32, 23 October 2010 (UTC

wow who says no child labor in vietnam? there are still so many children have to work from 5AM in the morning to midnight."Xa hoi chu nghia vietnam,doc lap, tu do, hanh phuc" It all lies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.211.184.198 (talk) 15:48, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

make a mention that the sate department wasw humiliated by the loss in vietnam is prone to bias

Why don't you say anything about human rights in Vietnam from Vietnamese's point of view?

Things aren't that bad! At least, in Vietnam, we can hardly see any child labor now. The problem had already been solved long, long time ago...

Thanks to someone who mentioned human rights from Vietnamese's point of view. Because all the times the US complained about the human rights situation in our country, but being a Vietnamese, I don't see it so bad. Yes the government does have strict censorship laws, but if we want we can easily access the free source of information on the internet. And I haven't seem any problem with religion, yet. Because in my family many members follow Buddhism, and they have no problem. Frankly, a large part of the people are too poor to care about such rights they "deserve". And from their point of view, the improvement of living condition is the true "human right" they seek, and the government is doing not too badly at it. If there are people complaining about human rights? The mass will say they are wasting time for meaningless purpose. Why not help them to be able to buy a TV set first before helping them to get freedom of information? That's my point of view, and I believe it is many others' too.
 * I would say this article is a piece of crap, the US is very far from VN, how can it tell?

Pruning of article
This article appeared to abound in cut-and-pasted and unreferenced information from various parties of the debate. Since much of this has been tagged as needing citations for several years, I hope no one will object to my removing it.

FWIW, I agree with those above that we need to get the side of the Vietnamese government/state-controlled media in here. But let's make sure it ends up referenced to a specific source. Cheers, Khazar (talk) 19:42, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your work to make Wikipedia become more credible, well you know I'm the one who put POV to this article before it has Vietnam's view and when I add Vietnam's view I forgot to remove it, thank to help. All info I add come from Vietnam report in UN so I think only need External links is enough but if you think it not then I add ref to them. And I think this article say about Vietnam so I put Vietnam's view in first and the other after, what do you think? Regard, hope you well.Tnt1984 (talk) 09:00, 21 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Looks like a good start to me. I've reduced this section a bit because it seems like a lot of weight to give to one report. Ideally, instead of having one big section on Viet Nam government views, and a lot of little sections on other subtopics, eventually we could change this article so that we end up with lots of small subtopics--religion, prisoners, etc.--containing the views of both pro- and anti-government secondary sources. Does that make sense? For now, though, I think it's already improving. Khazar (talk) 13:35, 21 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Well we have Wester's view topic so better have Viet Nam's government view topic to get balanced. But if you want have subtopic like that then the thing you need is know the of Viet Nam's law, for each of rights Viet Nam already have law to it, know them and you can understand the human rights, some anti-government tried propaganda Viet Nam have poor human rights, well I don't know about do they know the laws yet, most of them say want Rule of law but when I ask they don't know any about laws? For example some bloger offended honor of someone, then be sued and prison, anti-government propaganda that violations the right of speech, that make everyone know the law laugh to death but anti-government still say it violations the right of speech even that event happen very regular to another country, so if you write about that topic do you feel you know the law of Viet Nam well? I still don't know all law to write it yet. But if you confidence about it I think you can try. Regard, hope good thing will come to you.Tnt1984 (talk) 14:55, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Falung Gong controversy, please integrate
Here's a ref tag ready for action, not sure how/where to integrate it. Thanks. 220.100.86.192 (talk) 01:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Racism
http://books.google.com/books?id=Zr58XN0uEEQC&pg=PA160&dq=moi+vietnamese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dw1YU_2mOIKMyAT3-IDYDw&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=moi%20vietnamese&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZcLQcquYkcIC&pg=PA145&dq=moi+savages+vietnamese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MxRYU8TjBsmcyATZpIDQBg&ved=0CFoQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=moi%20savages%20vietnamese&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=uPH86IxSwjsC&pg=PA62&dq=moi+savages+vietnamese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MxRYU8TjBsmcyATZpIDQBg&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=moi%20savages%20vietnamese&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=qh5lffww-KsC&pg=PA182&dq=moi+savages+vietnamese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MxRYU8TjBsmcyATZpIDQBg&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=moi%20savages%20vietnamese&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=2_zKFyHlBk0C&pg=PA28&dq=moi+savages+vietnamese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MxRYU8TjBsmcyATZpIDQBg&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=moi%20savages%20vietnamese&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=9WLfsdeJgHsC&pg=PA102&dq=moi+savages+vietnamese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MxRYU8TjBsmcyATZpIDQBg&ved=0CEIQ6wEwAw#v=onepage&q=moi%20savages%20vietnamese&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=moDNlFBglpoC&pg=PA7&dq=moi+savages+vietnamese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MxRYU8TjBsmcyATZpIDQBg&ved=0CEkQ6wEwBA#v=onepage&q=moi%20savages%20vietnamese&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=zQxWAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA227&dq=moi+savages+vietnamese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MxRYU8TjBsmcyATZpIDQBg&ved=0CFQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=moi%20savages%20vietnamese&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=h8cRgWpCXUoC&pg=PA102&dq=moi+savages+vietnamese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MxRYU8TjBsmcyATZpIDQBg&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=moi%20savages%20vietnamese&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fOQkpcVcd9AC&pg=PT269&dq=moi+savages+vietnamese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MxRYU8TjBsmcyATZpIDQBg&ved=0CGYQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=moi%20savages%20vietnamese&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=KclCL2yZVRAC&pg=PA1504&dq=moi+savages+vietnamese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MxRYU8TjBsmcyATZpIDQBg&ved=0CGAQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=moi%20savages%20vietnamese&f=false

Pamela McElwee

“‘Blood Relatives’ or Unfriendly Neighbors? Vietnamese – Ethnic Minority Interactions in the Annamite Mountains,” Journal of Vietnamese Studies, 2008, 3(3): 81-116. Part of special issue on “Ethnic Minorities in Vietnam”, Philip Taylor, guest editor.

http://www.academia.edu/192968/Blood_Relatives_or_Unfriendly_Neighbors_Vietnamese_-_Ethnic_Minority_Interactions_in_the_Annamite_Mountains

http://www.academia.edu/296296/Becoming_Socialist_or_Becoming_Kinh_Government_Policies_for_Ethnic_Minorities_In_the_Socialist_Republic_of_Vietnam

http://rutgers.academia.edu/Departments/Human_Ecology/Documents

http://www.pamelamcelwee.com/recent-publications/

Rajmaan (talk) 23:38, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * These aren't relevant within the background of today's Vietnam.

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