Talk:Humboldt Wagon Road

When did the county take over the route?
I've been in touch with Andy Mark, author of one of the references and he brought up the issue that he feels that road became a public road in 1883, see Mark, p. 88. He cites the Weekly Butte Record, April 21, 1883 p. 1, column 6:


 * "Chico and Humboldt Road.- The charter of the Chico and Humboldt road, owned by General John Bidwell, has expired, and a meeting of our interested citizens and business men is called to assemble at the City Hall this evening, to take some action in making this a free road. General Bidwell built this road over the mountains at an immense cost, and has kept it in good condition for a number of years. He does not care to take the responsibility any longer, and hopes that our people will make an effort to take charge of the road and keep it in good order. As Chico derives great benefit from this road -from the people living in the mountains, it is for the interest of our people to take some notice of this matter. Let the meeting be well attended which is not available online.

I agree with his position that the road was a free road in 1883. Unfortunately, there are a few sources have it differently. The article says:


 * In 1883, the Chico and Humboldt Wagon Road Company's operating lease expired, and the road's operations were taken over by new partners Williams, Cecil, and Barham, who continued to operate the road as a toll highway.[24] Bond issues to improve the road were approved in 1897–1898, at which time the road became a public, county-maintained highway.[25][26] Though he no longer had an ownership interest in the Humboldt Wagon Road, Bidwell maintained involvement in the road's operations through the remainder of his life, and personally worked at construction projects along the road even into old age.[27][28]

The citations are:
 * [24] Mansfield, George C. (1918). History of Butte County, California, With Biographical Sketches. Los Angeles: Historic Record Company. p. 308 which can be found here and says:
 * "In 1883 the Chico-Humboldt Wagon Road franchise expired, and the road was leased to Messrs. Barham, Cecil and Williams. The lease provided that in exchange for the tools tolls the lessees were to keep the road in good condition." (Note that Barham is likely wrong, see below.)


 * [25] Chang (1992), p. 35. I was not able to find this online, but I have a scan of this source that states that Bidwell's franchise expired in 1883, that an appropriation was made in 1897 and that in 1897 was when road ceased to be a toll road.  Andy Mark (and I) believe that Chang was not correct with the 1897 date, likely because they did not have the keyword search that we now have in 2023.  See below for support.
 * [26] McGie (1982), p. 165. I was unable to find this, but Chang (1992) refers to this source.
 * [27] Leek (2018), pp. 21–22 20-21. I was not able to find this online, but the scans I have state that on July 28, 1883 the county supervisors leased the road to Bonham et al. and cites the Chico Weekly Enterprise August 3, 1883.  Leek continues that the contract was reconsidered in August.  A letter appearing in the Chico Weekly Enterprise, August 17, 1883, p. 1 supports that the contract was recinded.  Leek states that a contract was let to J. H. Williams for $1875 (see Chico Weekly Enterprise, September 7, 1883, p. 2 for the amount of the bid) and Leek presumes that tolls were no longer collected.  Leek seems to support the idea that the road was not a toll road in 1883 and that Bonham, Cecil and Williams no longer had the lease.   Note that Mansfield writes Barham, Cecil and Williams, which is what was used in the article (see above).  The August 3, 1883 article says Bonham, so Mansfield is possibly not correct.  I'm more inclined to go with Bonham because Leek (2018) uses Bonham and a Chico Weekly Enterprise July 27, 1883 article uses Bonham.
 * [28] Edmonson, Barbara T. (1992). "John Bidwell's Fifty Years on Rancho del Arroyo Chico". In McDonald, Lois Halliday (ed.). Ripples Along Chico Creek. Chico, California: Butte County Branch, National League of American Pen Women. p. 61. ISBN 0-9631582-2-8. I have not seen this source, so I have no comment.

Andy Mark points out these sources:
 * Weekly Butte Record Nov 24, 1883, p. 1. The image is not currently available, but I have a scan that says
 * "Since the Humboldt road was made a free highway, many heavy teams come to Chico from the mountains for supplies"


 * Weekly Butte Record Dec 15, 1883, p. 2. Again, the image is not currently available, but I have a scan that says:
 * "The expiration of the franchise of the Humboldt Wagon Road Company has resulted in giving that valuable artery of trade and commerce to the county as a free public highway"


 * Chico Weekly Enterprise, Oct. 15, 1897 has a letter by the superintendent of the road that says:
 * "It was made a county road, after having been a toll road for twenty years. During the last fourteen years, making the necessary repairs and keeping the road [in] order has been a heavy and constant strain on the taxpayers."

Below is proposed text replacing the above:


 * In April of 1883, the Chico and Humboldt Wagon Road Company’s operating lease expired. Responsibility for the road was then handed over to the county and it soon became a free public highway.


 * In 1897-98, a major road improvement project was implemented, supported by county funds and citizen contributions.

Note that the Leek reference would appear as "Leek (2018), pp. 20-21." If someone who has access to McGie (1882) and Edmonson (1992) and feels that the they are appropriate, then including those references would be great. As I have not seen them, I'm not sure I'm comfortable including them

I realize that this is a very minor detail, but as some reputable sources might have it wrong, it seems worth hashing out. I supposed one could call this WP:OR, but I feel that looking at the contemporary news sources in hopes of confirming secondary sources such as Mansfield and Chang is not WP:OR, especially because it seems that Mansfield gets at least one name wrong. Comments are most welcome! Cxbrx (talk) 06:34, 19 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I made some minor edits to the above, see the strikeouts . Cxbrx (talk) 16:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Cxbrx, thanks for digging into the references on this. I think what you're doing is totally appropriate.  I am not sure which it was.  I have a paper copy of McGie, 1982, who specifically said the franchise was transferred to Bonham/Barham, Cecil, and Williams, and I also have the Leek reference and Edmondson (Edmondson doesn't say anything about road ownership as I recall, but I will check again in the next day or two).  However, I missed those news articles, and maybe McGie did too, which suggest the contract was cancelled.  You and Mark may well be right, it might have been a public road by the end of 1883.  Let me take a closer look at the references I still have in my possession.  And there's nothing OR about using primary sources, we just shouldn't base entire articles on primary sources.  Please edit as you see fit if you find anything else. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 01:37, 20 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, Andy Mark forwarded me some references. McGie (1982), p. 165. does not mention precisely when the road became a county road, though they do mention county expenditures in the 90s, which indicates that by the 90s it was a county road.  As I've see McGie, I would include that reference in my proposed edits.  Do you have any suggestions for the proposed edits or shall I go ahead and make them and you can take a look?  I feel that we are basically in agreement on when the road became a county road and we can make adjustments about this to the article itself.  Thanks. Cxbrx (talk) 16:25, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I say go ahead and make those edits (stating the road was made public in 1883). I haven't been able to find any information other than what I said above, and Edmondson says nothing about road ownership as I suspected.  I would make sure to include references to the news articles you found (e.g. contract was transferred...but transfer was cancelled (ref)) to make it clear...several sources say that Barham et al. took over the road at this time, but if that isn't true then we need to back it up with references.  And also thanks for reaching out to Mark, I trust his research on this subject far more than my own. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 16:37, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I made the edits. I also did another strikeout on the text from the end of the quote from the Weekly Butte Record, April 21, 1883 above. Andy Mark pointed out that the Chico Weekly Enterprise, September 7, 1883, p. 2 does not mention J.H. Williams, he is mentioned as getting the contract on p. 3.  Page 2 does mention the amount of $1875 from an unsigned bid. Cxbrx (talk) 17:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)