Talk:Hummingbird/Archive 1

How many races are there?
Does anyone know how many species of Hummingbirds there are? --this question does not have an exact answer. Hummingbird taxonomy is in flux. Schuchmann 1999 recognizes 328, and a couple species have been described since. So, one answer is roughly 330. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.36.207.62 (talk) 23:55, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

verify before you change it please
I don't appreciate the change on the text on my image: humm7.jpg. For your information that is NOT red dye in my feeder, so next time have the courtesy to ask before assuming. Thank you. I am changing my info. back. (I resigned back on because I forgot Wiki thinks HughesNet users are hackers) Magialuna 18:13, 8 July 2007 (UTC) 14:04 Jul 08, 2007 (UTC)
 * Since the article goes to great pains to suggest that red dye is inappropriate, you'll understand why it's then a odd to show a picture of a feeder filled with red liquid. If the nectar is not dyed, could we include something in the caption to explain the discrepancy? Joyous! | Talk 15:01, 26 August 2007 (UTC)ya i agree, and you dont have to get so defensive, FOR YOUR INFORMATION!!!!!163.248.220.54 16:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Discontinuity
The section on making nectar mentions that honey is a bad ingredent because it spoils too easily; however, the WP entry on honey mentions that honey does not spoil (at least in its liquid form). Teleolurian 07:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

-- that's only true of honey that has not been diluted with water. 68.167.250.15 01:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC)CJC

Citizen Bird
On a lark, I picked up an old (copyright 1897, third edition from 1907) children's book "Citizen Bird" for a couple of bucks at a used bookstore. It's got about a hundred of these engravings showing various North American birds; while modern (color) photographs might be ultimately preferable, I can put more of these up if desired. --Brion 21:10 Jan 18, 2003 (UTC)


 * The book can also be gotten online from the Library of Congress website: but the scan quality isn't so hot (grayscale 115 dpi with crappy contrast, 2-bit 50% threshold at 300dpi, or 2-bit diffusion at 300dpi). --Brion 23:20 Jan 18, 2003 (UTC)

Hummingbirds in garages
I've just added a paragraph on how hummingbirds sometimes become trapped in garages. It may seem a bit random and/or out of place. I was motivated to do it because earlier today it happened in my garage, and the first thing I did when trying to understand the bird's apparently strange behavior (why it didn't simply fly out the wide-open door) was look up this article. There was no information about this phenomenon in the article, so I used Google to find it elsewhere.

I thought it was interesting and useful information that possibly deserved to be mentioned in Wikipedia's article. I'm not sure whether I added it in the most appropriate place, or whether it's really worth having in the article at all, so I leave it to the other users to decide.

By the way, I did eventually manage to free the (very tired, but hopefully otherwise OK) hummingbird from my garage. :)

Fusion 01:16, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Wowza. But is it still there? --121.7.203.206 (talk) 07:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

how to make hummingbird nectar
We have a screened in porch overlooking a small forest behind our house in the Hudson Valley in NY. Today a hummingbird came up to the screen pausing in front of where my wife was sitting. It hovered, then did a half lap from the porch to an empty feeder we have back there. I came here looking for an article like "How to Make Nectar." I'll add some good links I found once I learn how to edit pages here.

The article states that boiling the water will purify it, but hummingbirds.net, which is cited in the article for another fact, says "It's not necessary to boil the water. The microorganisms that cause fermentation don't come from the water; they are transported to the feeder on hummingbird bills." It also mentions the fact that the feeder does not provide all the essential nutrients, but provide the fuel that helps the hummingbird catch insects for those nutrients. I think this shold be mentioned in the feeder section. Many people may not know that they eat insects, and some commercial mixes claim that the sugar\water mix is not enough. PrometheusX303 20:07, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Has anyone looked at the merits of adding a small amount of tartaric acid to homemade nectar as a way to keep the nectar from spoiling or fermenting? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.246.24.145 (talk) 12:14, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Professor Lee Gass, retired, of University of British Columbia, did research on “hummers” and kept them in his lab. He told me how they hover over fruit fly bottles to blow the flies out of the bottle and then eat the fruit flies. My Flatley (talk) 16:08, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Found a hummingbird recipe at local library - below - similar to main article. Recommends weekly cleaning. Can this bird eat a powdered candy like pixie sticks instead of liquid - guess to get around some fermentation. I thought dry active kitchen yeast converts sugar water to alcohol, when it is added to the liquid. Assuming dry active yeast needs moisture to ferment, could a powdered bird food avoid this type of fermentation? [Matt 6:26]

Hummingbird food [Makes 4 cups]

To attract hummingbirds, make the ratio of sugar to water 1 to 3. After the birds become regular customers, change the ratio to 1 to 4. Wash the hummingbird feeder every week.

Materials -1 cup sugar -4 cups water, preferably distilled -red food coloring -stove or heating element -pot -hummingbird feeder

Procedure -1. Combine the sugar and water in a pot and boil for 2 minutes. -2. Add enough red food coloring to make the solution a bright color. The hummingbirds are attracted to the color. -3. Place the solution in a sugar-water feeder.

Reference(s) -01. Glues, brews, and goos Recipes and Formulas for Almost Any classroom project Diana F. Marks Palmdale, CA City library J372.5 MAR Gregs650 (talk) 03:19, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

A pic not used
There is a pic I posted belize40.jpg that would be approritate for this page if some one wants to use it Belizian 19:01, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Cleaning feeders with bleach?
I'm an avid hummingbird watcher and I've read recently that they don't recommend using bleach, even a weak solution, to clean the feeders. My local bird store told me to use a solution of white vinegar and water to clean the feeders and it works and is much less toxic. I know in nursing, we have patients clean reusable medical devices like nebulizers with white vinegar. Does anyone know about this? If the bleach is left in the article, I think it needs to be emphasized that the solution needs to be a weak solution. maltmomma June 30, 2005 17:11 (UTC)

How fast?
Hummingbirds are really quite zippy little creatures. But how fast can they fly? Not how fast do they beat their wings, every book I've ever looked up on birds has told be that. But how quickly can they get from point A to point B? Fieari 18:03, August 13, 2005 (UTC)


 * According to this page, normal flight about 25mph; up to 65kph (40mph) in a courtship dive. (Google search "hummingbird flight speed" Randyoo 02:08, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! Very helpful. Hm. Now, what section would that go best into this article? Fieari 22:04, August 14, 2005 (UTC)


 * not thisarticle - refers only to Ruby-throated Hummingbird jimfbleak 04:02, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Photograph
I just added a photograph of a flying hummingbird (and moved the one that was there up a bit). Can anyone tell me what hummingbird specifically this is? DirkvdM 12:13, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

evolution
How do scientists think hummingbirds evolved? Obviously, in order to subsist on a diet of flowers, it helps to be really small, have a narrow beak, and hover, but why did hummingbirds start eating the nectar in the first place? Do scientists have a theory?


 * many species of bird will take nectar as part of their diet, and species such as New World warblers migrating to the tropics in winter often increase the amount of readily available fruit and nectar in their diet once the breeding season need for harder to obtain protein has reduced. It then becomes a matter of positive feedback, since adaptions which improve access to nectar will lead to an increasing specialisation on that food source. The completely unrelated sunbirds have followed the same evolutionary route. jimfbleak 17:20, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I was once told that the reason a hummingbird has such fine control over its flight (being able to fly directly up or backwards) is because it's the only bird that can rotate its wings, having shoulder sockets similar to a human's, and that their legs/feet serve no function except grasping, but I didn't see anything in-depth on their anatomy in the article. Any merit to this? Albino Bebop 22:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone know how the specific environmental conditions influenced the size and shape of the bill? Moreover, with specific types of conditions such as a certain species needing to adapt to a specific type of flower due to changes in available food sources.I guess I am looking for more specific detail in why the different species evolved the way they did.Hershey.60 (talk) 15:03, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Hummingbird memory
Thought someone might like to incorporate this research into the wiki article. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11697039/?GT1=7850

Kolibri
Please see Kolibri article. Is this word in any use in English language? Please update hummingbird and/or kolibri articles correspondingly. mikka (t) 22:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not an English word for hummingbird. jimfbleak 05:38, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Fixed.--Curtis Clark 19:11, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Is there a specific, known reason why these birds are called hummingbirds in Elnglish, while practically all the other European languages use words based on the root kolibri? At least I find this difference interesting. It might be worth one sentence next to the explanation of their English name in the opening. 130.231.89.100 (talk) 11:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Damn it, forgot to sign in again. The above comment is actually by me. Matti Nuortio, Oulu, Finland (talk) 11:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Going for a ride
Do Hummingbirds piggy back on other birds when they migrate? DZ dawniezee@bellsouth.net
 * No jimfbleak 10:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Urban legend?
I heard somewhere that a person was once such an idiot as to put artificial sweetener in a hummingbird feeder (out of a misguided desire to improve the birds' health), and the birds drank the artificial sweetener, which had essentially no calories, and died of starvation with full bellies. Has anyone else heard of this / is this true? Kasreyn 09:59, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * never heard of this, and sounds implausible, but who knows? jimfbleak 10:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

urban ledgend. There is an old obscure paper showing that hummingbirds don't like the taste of artificial sweetener. -CJC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:CE8C:E9C0:885F:31E8:B4E1:A94C (talk) 17:00, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Removed: MiG-44
"The results of this study were partly used during the development of the 6th generation Russian hovering jetfighter MIG-44."

Removed as it is unsourced and seems unlikely. The study referred to might be useful for a bird-sized UAV, but probably not for a fighter-sized plane, and there does not appear to be a MiG-44, though there is a MiG-MFI Project 1.44. 213.54.17.19, please cite your sources.--QuantumEngineer 21:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed: Uniqueness of backward flying
Removed reference to humming birds being the ONLY birds which can fly backwards in controlled flight. Significant numbers of small birds can fly backwards as well as vertically. Hummingbirds are often quoted as the only birds to be able to do this but it is fallacious. Ref: www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Acadian_Flycatcher_dtl.html

Other birds resembling hummingbirds
Where the article states that the hummingbirds are a group exclusive to the Americas, it might do to mention the sunbirds of Africa, which strongly resemble hummingbirds but are considered a different group. When I was in Zambia and Zimbabwe in 2001, I saw birds that looked for all the world like hummingbirds--except that I thought I'd read that hummingbirds lived only in the western hemisphere. Our tour guide told me, yes, Africa does have hummingbirds. Only later when I got home and looked it up did I learn that the guide was mistaken, and that I had apparently seen sunbirds. 72.66.100.68 03:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)Stephen Kosciesza


 * Convergent evolution produces the apparent similarity, but they're not even closely related,  Jimfbleak . talk . 07:03, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I understand that. I was suggesting that it might be good to mention several groups of birds, including the Sunbirds of southern Africa, resemble Hummingbirds but are not related. 140.147.160.78 14:54, 31 August 2007 (UTC)Stephen Kosciesza

Vocalization
There are some references on the internet about the ability of hummingbirds to imitate sounds, but there is no mention thereof in this article. I hope someone can clarify more on the subject, for it seems incomplete and there is no mention on the singing traits of the species whatsoever. 201.81.180.192 00:24, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Appearance
In the section on appearance, the piece that says "The names that admiring naturalists have given to hummingbirds suggest exquisite, fairylike grace and gemlike brilliance" seems a bit off in tone. I don't think that it really fits in with the appearance of the bird, though it could go in a section about the naming of the birds. Would anyone object to the removal of those two sentences? Hey jude, don&#39;t let me down 03:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed it, it's alittle POV, and like you said off tone. If anyone has a good reason why it should be there, please respond here. Latulla 01:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Hummingbirds and ornithophilous flowers
For anyone watching this page, this article, Hummingbirds and ornithophilous flowers, might need to be merged into this article. It was newly created and showed up on User:AlexNewArtBot/PlantsSearchResult. Cheers, --Rkitko (talk) 18:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Only in the Americas?
I live in Mount Carmel, Israel, and there many Hummingbirds in this area. The article states that Hummingbirds can be found only in the Americas. Is this a mistake?
 * Are you sure it wasn't a hummingbird moth? Hummingbirds are only found in the Americas, but these buys look spookily like them. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  20:19, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It may have been a Palestine Sunbird, Sunbirds resemble hummingbirds, and I think it now says this in the article. 74.83.23.189 (talk) 16:05, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

went to costa rica and i visited an open home on the side of a mountian and there were many many hummingbirds at the feeders and this was in sep of 1997, ray westcott  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.72.39.251 (talk) 06:46, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Teeth
I am thinking of adding the information to this article that hummingbirds are unique birds because they have TEETH!!! Unfortunately, I don't have a reference on hand. Anyone know where I might find one?
 * No living bird has teeth, so you won't find a ref. Jimfbleak 16:12, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I am living in Tamilnadu,India. I have seen the the Green Vilotear humming bird in my native village(Agaramangudi). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghuram.P (talk • contribs) 06:36, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Hummingbird
That section needs a major trim since most of it is a guide as to how the proper use of a feeder, not about the feeder itself (the edit links are broken, and I'm off for a while in a minute). Kwsn (Ni!) 22:01, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Types of feeders: I have noticed that the humming birds in my area prefer feeders with glass reservoirs over plastic. Are there any published articles that can substantiate this or that, more generally, discuss humming bird preferences of shape and material of artificial feeders? (13 July 2009). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.193.158.169 (talk) 01:19, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hummingbird photograph.jpg
Image:Hummingbird photograph.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 19:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Images in Article
I recently tried to prune off some of the low quality images in what is a rather image heavy article and replace them with some higher quality alternatives. Mbz1 reverted my edits and requested to discuss the change. Hence here we are.


 * First off I don't think we need four images in a one paragraph section on their flight. True their distinctive flight is a key feature of the humming brid but I think we can do with less, and for that matter better, images. I think [[Image:Humming ggp.jpg|60px]] is quite blurry and the bird is only a small proportion of the actual picture. The quality of [[Image:IMG 42371h.jpg|60px]] to be honest is quite awful - noisy and strong halos where an unsharp mask has attempted to make up for the blurriness of the image. Wikipedia has far higher quality images in [[Image:Archilochus-alexandri-002.jpg|60px]] and [[Image:Archilochus-alexandri-003.jpg|60px]] which are both sharp and almost full frame of the bird. Alternatively I've created these edits: [[Image:Archilochus-alexandri-002_edit.jpg|60px]] [[Image:Archilochus-alexandri-003_edit.jpg|60px]] which reduce noise and add contrast to the image boosting colors and improving aesthetics (IMO). [[Image:Humming flowers.jpg|60px]] has nice colours (despite strong noise) and an interesting composition, but is much better suited to the section on "Feeders and nectar" where it has more relevance. Similarly [[Image:Anna's Hummingbird in San Francisco.jpg|60px]] looks somewhat weak in the section on their flight compared to the two high quality alternatives listed. But personally I don't think it's needed in the article at all as the other image illustrates this aspect already.


 * Second I think the article has too many images (particularly low quality ones). Without intending to hurt the photographer's feelings, [[Image:Female Ruby-Throated Hummingbird in Flight.jpg|60px]] is significantly inferior in quality to other photos with very poor focus and sharpness. If you really want another in flight shot there's [[Image:Calypte-anna-002.jpg|60px]]. Similarly [[Image:Hummingbird hovering in flight.jpg|60px]] has very poor focus and sharpness and IMO shouldn't be on the article. [[Image:L30greenviolet.JPG|60px]] has good sharpness but it is very low resolution and has a bad background. I would almost even suggest to remove [[Image:Selasphorus rufus on Saltspring Island.jpg|60px]] based on it's quality vs the quality of other available images. And perhaps replace either [[Image:Hummingbird.jpg|60px]] (cut off subject, not particularly sharp) or [[Image:Hummingbird in GGP.jpg|60px]] (blurred head) with [[Image:Eugenes-fulgens-001.jpg|60px]]. Certainly the quality of [[Image:Eugenes-fulgens-001.jpg|60px]] warrants it's inclusion in the article IMO.

Would appreciate any comments! --Fir0002 08:09, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I just wonder how [[Image:Humming flowers.jpg|60px]] could have more relevence in "feeders and nectar", if it does not show a feeder, but shows  a bird aproaching the flowers? I believe that all pictures  with birds aproaching flowers are very beautiful, show dinamic of flight very well as well as different technique in aproaching different flowers and should stay. I agree that [[Image:Female Ruby-Throated Hummingbird in Flight.jpg|60px]] and [[Image:Hummingbird hovering in flight.jpg|60px]]  could be replacd. I believe that images [[Image:L30greenviolet.JPG|60px]] and [[Image:Hummingbird.jpg|64px]] should stay because they show different and very nice colors of hummingbirds. I agree that [[Image:Eugenes-fulgens-001.jpg|60px]]  should be included in the article. Thanks--Mbz1 11:50, 26 August 2007 (UTC)Mbz1
 * I've just replaced [[Image:Hummingbird in GGP.jpg|60px]]  with [[Image:Hummer tongue.jpg|64px]] not because the head is blured (it is not) but because other image shows a very, very common, yet very hard to catch on film behavior. The quality of the picture is not very good because it is a digital copy of a film picture, but in my opinion the article will benefit from the image. I believe it is good to remeber that a value of the image is much more important than an image quality simply because Wikipedia is encyclopedia and is not professional photographers photo forum. Thanks.--Mbz1 13:04, 26 August 2007 (UTC)Mbz1
 * What are you talking about? [[Image:Humming flowers.jpg|60px]] clearly shows where the bird gets it's food from! And yes they might be beautiful etc but they are not the best suited images for that section. The alternatives I've suggested are far superior in quality and composition to illustrate their flight. The page has way too many photos - and it's not your private gallery. The fact [[Image:L30greenviolet.JPG|60px]] has a different colouration than the other birds does not warrant it's inclusion in the article. It is not a significant variation and if we included all the different types of hummingbirds on the article it would move from unwieldy to ridiculous. Unless you have any more specific objections I'll go ahead with replacing the flight images with the alternatives I've provided. --Fir0002 22:23, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm talking that your authority is not nearly enough for me to agree with the images removal.I'm also talking that before few more people tell me that images you suggested are better for the article, please, do not remove the images from the article.--Mbz1 15:53, 28 August 2007 (UTC)Mbz1
 * I agree with Fir0002's changes; the article needs to have some more content added before it can sustain this many images. In the meantime some need to go. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  21:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that there are too many pictures in the article; some need to go in a gallery, on the Commons page, or in the articles for the genera and species. My suggestion would be one beautiful picture for the taxobox and the rest pictures that illustrate specific points.  For instance, I think the remarkable picture of the hummingbird sticking out its tongue should go next to where the tongue is mentioned.  (I'm going to put it there, and I'm going to edit out the mention of difficulty of photographing it, which reads like either bragging or justification for including the picture, as in WP:POINT.)  However, I think the text needs only one picture of a hummingbird at flowers; the rest can go in a gallery.  In fact, I'm going to be bold and put them in a gallery so people can see how it looks.  This may not end up as the final image arrangement, but it's a possibility to consider.
 * And yes, given a choice of images with equal illustrative value, we want the sharp, high-resolution ones. They're easier to look at and more informative.  On the other hand, for me, some of the ones Fir002 criticized are quite sharp enough. If you can count the feathers, I have no complaint, just as a can't tell a good recording from an audiophile recording.  &mdash;JerryFriedman 04:02, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Please notice that hummingbirds and flowers images show different aproach to flowers in other words aerodynamics of flight. I do not think they should be replaced by 2 pictures fir0002 wants them to be replaced, first of all because they provide more information (all 4 show different technique and combined together could give a reader an idea of how hummingbirds fly) and second of all because I like the composition with flowers better. The wings in the image [[Image:Archilochus-alexandri-002.jpg|60px]] are blurry. [[Image:Archilochus-alexandri-003.jpg|60px]] is nice and could find a place in the article.--Mbz1 04:30, 29 August 2007 (UTC)Mbz1


 * I used the picture of the female because I think the article needs a picture of a plain-plumaged female hummer and because I was tired of pictures facing to the left, out of the article (though maybe the Anna's could go on the right.
 * I'm sorry, but I got carried away and fixed a lot of word things while rearranging the words and pictures. I know it's inconvenient, but please don't revert.  Instead, reverse any of my changes individually if you feel it necessary.  One consolation is that you won't be working any harder than I was.
 * I did notice the different positions of the hummingbirds with the flowers, but they overload that section of the article. The variety is still available in the gallery.&mdash;JerryFriedman 04:48, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way, a lot still needs to be done. The scientific sections need to be expanded, the how-to sections need to be reduced (that's not what WP is for), and a lot of things need citations.  Among other things.  But maybe this can wait till we settle on an organization and on the illustrations.  &mdash;JerryFriedman 04:52, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

is the below photo a possible usable image in this article? Omniii (talk) 05:58, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Omniii

Hummingbird cuisine?
Does anyone know if hummingbirds can be or have been eaten? I bet they are succulent. Couldn't find any infos on the world wide web. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.242.39.217 (talk) 04:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Aside from disgust at the idea of eating such a beautiful species (stick to duck mate - that's good). I imagine it would be not just bony and not very filling, but the fast moving muscles involved would be rather bitter in taste - consider game meat, but 20 times that.  Possibly an aquired one, but definitely not instantly likable.  I guess it would be quite lean, given the metabolism of hummingbird.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.32.66 (talk) 23:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I find pheasant a beautiful species, but also delicious. I understand they're small, but I just imagine they're delicious!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.206.144.174 (talk) 06:01, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Figure of eight flapping
Watched a tv program recently on hummingbirds. They are the only species that flap their wings in a figure of eight - rather, they point their wings one way on the downstroke, then twist them before the upstroke. This should probably be mentioned in the aerodynamics of flight bit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.32.66 (talk) 23:36, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

migration
when is it time to take the feeders down.I have been told the first day of fall.I live in Texas.I thinkg its getting about time to pull the feeders down.But not sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.248.114.35 (talk) 16:47, 18 September 2008 (UTC) —————————— I specifically came to this article for guidance on when to put out (and later, take in) my feeders. I was disappointed not to even find a range map in the Range section. The only appearance of the word migration is at the bottom of the page, in the reference to avians generally. Does anyone know of a source for this information? Gib Henry (talk) 14:44, 19 June 2011 (UTC) —————————— Okay, I'm answering my own question. Wikipedia's your friend...so is Google. I found a site (http://www.hummingbirds.net/) with lots of additional information, even including this year's migration map to date! Gib Henry (talk) 15:25, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Starvation means death?
In the article, it is stated that at any given time, a hummingbird may be only a few hours from starvation. What is meant by starvation here? Maybe the article should say "a few hours from dying of starvation" if that is what is meant. 129.210.215.24 (talk) 22:12, 18 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, starvation means death. I clarified the statement and cited it. =Axlq 22:51, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

humming birds are really cool creatures... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.148.118.64 (talk) 23:29, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

What flowers does it pollinate?
Does it pollinate Gelsemium sempervirens, for example? (I am not a botanist!) —121.7.203.206 (talk) 08:32, 21 May 2009 (UTC)


 * on the whole they suck nectar and have evolved beaks to do that does the article not make that clear? if not we need to say so. in doing so they pick up pollen you know like bees do etc. there are species of hummingbird wedded to their flowers i forget the word but neither the flower or hummingbird could survive without the other you know. SimonTrew (talk) 05:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

independent 10 jun
nice front page beautiful picture of hummingbird apparently they experience g forces that would make a fighter pilor faint. weight for size they are the fastest thing on earth. it is not my expertise but might be worth someones checking The Independent 10 June 2009. SimonTrew (talk) 05:17, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Feathers and structural color
I was always under the impression that a major factor in hummingbird taxonomy was that the colors of their feathers came exclusively from their optical properties (structural color) and never from a dye like in other birds (though other birds exhibit structural color as well). It seems a notable factor...Freakdog (talk) 02:38, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Ruby-throated or Black-chinned
The picture at the bottom, labeled "hummingbird in Texas; likely a Ruby-throated Hummingbird" looks more like a female Black-chinned than a Ruby-throated. I agree that they are very similar but the green plumage is different, at least from what I've seen.76.113.104.88 (talk) 02:20, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Backward flight
"They can also fly backwards, and are the only group of birds able to do so" - This is most certainly not correct. All birds capable of hovering (and there are a lot) include backward flight in their repertoire. In Africa the sunbirds can all hover and the sunbird species around Johannesburg regularly hover and fly backwards while searching for spiders in wall crannies. I had a pet guineafowl for about 2 years which had no problem taking off backwards when surprised by the dogs on the property. Androstachys (talk) 20:28, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I can add to that statement, I have seen a black bird (probably corvus family) inspecting a wall with holes by flying up, down, sideways and in and out of holes in the wall. It was heavy work, you could see it taking repeted pauses by sitting on the edge of the holes BUT all the time (about 2 minutes that the train paused at the station) it kept the beak pointing into the wall (exept once when the sitting edge broke and it did a sommersault backwards and took a round flight back to the wall). I know that it is a common myth that only hummingbirds can fly backwards BUT that bird did all that hummingbirds usually do. I dont want to start a edit war so I do not edit the article but if anybody can lock in something like "Hummingbirds are the most known of the bird families that can hover and fly backwards but many other birds can when sufficiently motivated" I would appreciate it. It would be good if it was compleated with references to other birds that also usually do it. Seniorsag (talk) 13:36, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * All of these personal impressions are fine for chatting about bird flight, but they are meaningless in terms of the article without solid reliable sources to back them up. Cresix (talk) 01:25, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

False statement
The line stating that hummingbirds are the only species that can fly backwards is untrue. Any person who owns a pet bird knows that they can perform manuevres that put a helicopter to shame. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.234.210 (talk) 23:56, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Tongue
it is quite remarkable that this article doesn't mention the length of it ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.150.163.34 (talk) 03:05, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Specific Template for Trochilidae
I've started making a template for Trochilidae. We could include with the existing template, but I just thought it would be good to have something a bit more specific. I was thinking it would also be a lot more easier than the taxonomic list that was created, this could almost be a replacement.

I've got the draft here (where i'll be updating it from): User:Ypna/draft, but here's the template anyway:

I've already completed the Phaethornithinae section, but it might take a while to complete the Trochilinae. I doubt i'm going to get around do finishing it any time soon, so I put it up here to let you all know that it exists, and if anybody would like to help finish it that would be great. Either way I'll finish it in the end if nobody else does, but that might be a while from now.  — Ypna • Talk 00:38, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Heart rate information doesn't cite valid source
The claim that the birds' heart rate can be as high as 1260 beats per minute cites a web page that offers this information without any substantiation. This heart rate figure shows up on dozens of web pages, but I have so far been unable to find an original source for this information. Michaelmarkham (talk) 22:07, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Introduction to Europe
Does anyone know if there've been attempts to introduce hummingbirds to Europe? There are so many feral exotic species in Europe living surprisingly far North like nandus and Australian swans in Germany, wallabies in Great Britain, parrots in Netherlands etc. I'm surprised I don't hear about hummingbirds.83.7.165.246 (talk) 20:48, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Hummingbirds can only be resident in areas where there is a year-round warm weather and a constant supply of nectar plants, which rules out all of Europe and temperate Asia. Species that can tolerate temperate summers, like Ruby-throated Hummingbird, are strongly migratory, and would disappear when the weather cooled. Even in the tropics, they would have to compete with the larger sunbirds. Also, deliberately introducing exotic species is illegal  Jimfbleak  -  talk to me?  12:58, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) This was not the question
 * 2) The climate in Europe is more varied than you assume83.7.150.218 (talk) 15:43, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Does leaving feeders out to late in the season result in hummingbird death?
I've heard that hummingbird feeders left out too late in the season can trick the hummingbirds into putting off their migration too long and freezing to death. Is this urban legend? 12.202.74.87 (talk) 20:13, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Song
Can anyone tell me whether hummingbirds have a song, as opposed to the usual high-pitched "tseep"? I have heard a burst of 12 or15 notes in a second or two, but haven't been able to link it definitively to a source. (A descending run, rising again a little at the end). Awien (talk) 12:34, 18 January 2015 (UTC)


 * They don't have the complex songs of passerines, but often have a short, repeated song consisting of a couple of high pitched single notes. Apart from the repetition, not much different from the usual squeaks and whistles Jimfbleak - talk to me?  16:06, 18 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Jim. I just happened to get the chance to run this by another expert, who said the same thing. I'm afraid I didn't quite catch the (Ecuadorian) bird she did suggest, though.

Awien (talk) 20:48, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Range
Ruby-throats breed not onl y in the southeastern US (as stated in the Range section) but also in the North-east and eastern Canada.Paulhummerman (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 01:07, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Youtube video of closeup feeding
User Quad Photographer wants to add this youtube video displaying a closeup view of feeding. Youtube videos are discouraged under WP:YT and WP:ELNO. I also feel this video presents no new knowledge. --Zefr (talk) 16:25, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

References for Hummingbirds sexual dimorphism
My topic is sexual size dimorphism in hummingbirds, Here are my 4 references:

Reference #1: Temeles, E, Miller, J, Rifkin, J. 2010. Evolution of sexual dimorphism in bill size and shape of hermit hummingbirds (Phaethornithinae): a role for ecological causation. The Royal Society. 365: 1053-1063.

http://eds.b.ebscohost.com.ezp.slu.edu/eds/command/detail?sid=b95abdf9-4b45-4e8a-8faf-e3c3f2e59051%40sessionmgr115&vid=5&hid=117

Reference #2: Berns, C, Adams, D. 2012. Becoming Different But Staying Alike: Patterns of Sexual Size and Shape Dimorphism in Bills of Hummingbirds. Evol Biol. 40: 246-260.

http://eds.b.ebscohost.com.ezp.slu.edu/eds/command/detail?sid=b95abdf9-4b45-4e8a-8faf-e3c3f2e59051%40sessionmgr115&vid=11&hid=117

Reference #3: De Lisle, S, Rowe, L. 2013. Correlated Evolution of Allometry and Sexual Dimorphism across Higher Taxa. The American Naturalist. 182: 630-640.

http://eds.b.ebscohost.com.ezp.slu.edu/eds/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?sid=b95abdf9-4b45-4e8a-8faf-e3c3f2e59051%40sessionmgr115&vid=17&hid=117

Reference #4: Colwell, R. 2000. Rensch’s Rule Crosses the Line: Convergent Allometry of Sexual Size Dimorphism in Hummingbirds and Flower Mites. The American Naturalist. 156: 495-511.

http://eds.b.ebscohost.com.ezp.slu.edu/eds/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?sid=b95abdf9-4b45-4e8a-8faf-e3c3f2e59051%40sessionmgr115&vid=19&hid=117 Weightedswim94 (talk) 18:40, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Comments
I liked how you discussed several studies and explained them in detail. However, I feel like your section would be stronger if you wrote more about how all the studies link together and help explain sexual size dimorphism. I also think that you should delve more into sexual selection, since that is what you end up concluding with at the end of your section. Perhaps this article could help you with that: Soulsbury, Carl D; Kervinen, Matti; Lebigre, Christophe (2014). "Sexual size dimorphism and the strength of sexual selection in mammals and birds". Evolutionary Ecology Research 16: 63–76. Make sure that your article citations link back to the original articles themselves, and not to the SLU library page to keep your section from being deleted again. Aa3z4 (talk) 15:51, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Add comma before and after “such as Phaethornithinae” in the first sentence. Consider breaking your 3rd sentence into 2 sentences. It’s pretty long. Get rid of “discussed above” in the sentence where yyou talk about De Lisle studies. You misspelled hummingbirds in the “this becomes relevant” sentence. I don’t know how you organized it before your section was removed, but you should separate your article into paragraphs for each study. I agree with the user above, you need to cite your references differently. Instead of linking directly to a database, you should enter the reference according to APA format. You can do this by entering into the manual journal entry form when adding a reference into Wikipedia. I do like that your section is informative and thorough. Drhumz (talk) 23:29, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Response to comments on first draft
As suggested by Evol&Glass, Aa3z4, and Drhumz, I fixed the citations within the article so that they link back to the specific DOI’s of the articles instead of being linked to SLU Libraries like they were initially. Furthermore, there are now citations after every sentence in order to make it clear which article the relevant information is being drawn from. As suggested by Drhumz, I made sure to correct the grammar, spelling, and punctuation within the article.

After reading the critiques of Evol&Glass, I re-wrote my article so that instead of referencing the specific studies I used, the article talks about the major points of each of the studies and how they relate to each other in terms of the sexual size dimorphism and beak dimorphism found within many clades of hummingbirds. My article is organized by giving a brief description of sexual size dimorphism and beak dimorphism in hummingbirds. Then I delve into a possible reason for these dimorphisms and how sexual selection plays a role in reinforcing this dimorphism. Finally, the end of my paper discusses this possible reason in light of the observed phenotypic differences in males and females. This is much improved from my previous organizational strategy of grouping the results of each article into their own paragraphs.

Aa3z4 suggested talking more about sexual selection and I related this concept to how a male courts a female and subsequently passes its genetic information onto its children. While this same user suggested an article to use, I ended up not using it because I found ample information within my original articles. Weightedswim94 (talk) 04:20, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Hummingbirds in Pakistan
Statement that hummingbirds are just restricted to Americas is not true. I have seen many hummingbirds in my ancestral town in Pakistan during my childhood and I have seen them visiting my garden in 2005 when I was there last time and I am very positive that they still exist in Pakistan. There is more research needed in this area. Sh eri ff (report) 02:46, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Are you sure they are not sunbirds? The last hummingbirds native to the Old World I'm aware of have been extinct for at least 30 million years.--Mr Fink (talk) 03:35, 22 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I am not a bird expert but the birds I have seen were very small like hummingbirds and they fly very fast like hummingbirds. I have seen them in two colors. Shiny Black and Brown, I believe the black ones are male and the brown female. The black one's feather might give out other colors when reflected by sunlight but those colors are not very distinct. Black is the prominent color. I have checked List of birds of Pakistan and three sunbird species listed there does not describe this bird. Sh eri ff  (report) 09:47, 22 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Could be Purple sunbird since they change their plumage, breeding plumage resembles the black one and the eclipse plumage resembles the brown one. It's hard to see them up close so I might have been confusing purple with black. I did not know that they are called sunbird and not hummingbird, in native language we call them 'piddi' (پدی) which literally means 'small bird'. I will read up more on it to make sure it describes the bird I saw. Sh eri ff  (report) 10:05, 22 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The culprit is identified, that is the bird.


 * Purple sunbird (cinnyris asiaticus).jpg


 * Sh eri ff (report) 11:09, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, then it's a sunbird, and not a true hummingbird.--Mr Fink (talk) 15:42, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Edit
Weightedswim94,

Overall I think your article hits the major key points on sexual size dimorphism, along with the beak shape. I think that the first paragraph is pretty solid; however maybe inserting an image of these dimorphisms would further educate individuals on just how dynamic the dimorphisms are to the species. The second paragraph is also well written, however maybe explain why it is advantageous that males participate more frequently in courtship than females, and how this correlates with increased mating success for male humming birds. I think for the final paragraphs I would consider rephrasing the sentence “because larger hummingbirds tend to have longer beaks and females tend to be larger than males, females tend to be more active foragers and are better suited to extract nectar from flowers.” to “this sexual dimorphism allows for females to be more active foragers.” Consider taking out “better suited to extract nectar from flowers” because it is stated a couple of sentences above that females have longer beaks so they are more effective at reaching and extracting nectar. This is just a rephrasing suggestion that may seem a little more concise. Also consider adding hyperlinks to the words intraspecific competition. Again, I think that this addition to the article is necessary and very informative. Nice job! Namaste314 (talk) 15:01, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

I made small grammatical changes and took out some of the redundant wording. Overall, the article is well written. I think it could expand on how different males and females are when it comes to foraging. The article could also be expanded and discuss how this seize dimorphism would affect other areas of life, not just foraging. I will look out for some articles in this area and post if I see anything relevant. Plantlover95 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:54, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Final Sexual Size Dimorphism Wikipedia Article Edits
In response to my peers' comments, I added specific examples of size variance amongst different clades of hummingbirds and made many edits in order to make sure the article is more concise. Furthermore, I clarified that the beak dimorphism and size dimorphism are not intrinsically linked: female and male hummingbirds of the same size will have different beak sizes (the female being larger). I also clarified that the energetic constraints are a result of courtship displays, not just size differences. Overall, my article has significantly improved from the onset of the assignment and I would like to thank everyone who made an effort to better the article itself or give me constructive criticism to better the article. Weightedswim94 (talk) 20:51, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

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 * Archived urls link to original articles. --Zefr (talk) 16:30, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

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Nectar Ratio
"A ratio of 1 part sugar to 4 parts water, or 25% concentration, is a common recipe,[114]. . . ." I thought that a 1 to 4 is a 20% ratio? Also, that link is broken. Avocats (talk) 02:48, 30 May 2018 (UTC)