Talk:Hunter College High School/Archive 1

alums
Secy of Commerce Ron Brown went to Hunter Elementary, but not Hunter High School


 * Hi, there. I stand corrected on Ron Brown; I only added him because there was a link from his page to this one.  But I don't know why you deleted Michael A. Burstein and Mike Maronna.  Were they expelled or what? --Tinlinkin 23:31, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

other schools
Should a lengthy list of other specialized public high schools be included in the opening of the article? I respectfully submit the following arguments for keeping the article free of those references. Like Hunter, many of those schools are superior to the rest of the public system, but an encyclopedia article about U. of Michigan does not list every other school in the Big 10. One could also list lots of New York private schools that Hunter competes with in terms of college acceptances, but that doesn't really make sense. Finally, while a few of the schools listed are comparable to Hunter in entry requirements, student performance, others are not. It is correct that about 20 students leave Hunter for high school elsewhere, but this number is smaller than in previous years. The most sizeable number migrate to Bronx Sci and Stuy. Some migrate to other private and public schools, but not in significant numbers.


 * I voted "no", as can be seen below in the "corrections" section.

corrections
I don't understand why people keep taking the drug and alcohol references out. It's just as much a part of our culture as the academics and extracurriculars...we're not trying to impress anyone, we're trying to create an accurate and all-encompassing view of our school. This includes all varieties of traditions and subcultures and biases, not just the statistics or flattering bits. + 71.247.121.175 03:34, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Why is this article so neglected (like our website)? We're probably too busy to care, or it could be the whole self-realization-is-enough attitude. But we need to show people we can write at least as well as Stuy. I mean, come on, we're a liberal arts school, they're sciences. Sheesh. So I propose we organize a coalition to restore our article. It'll probably fall to FH, the only people who care about Wiki articles. But true, FH has the same no-need-to-prove-eliteness article as the rest of the school, if not more so. So solution: have a 7 write it. --gwc 04:56, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Actually, it is pretty good considering we're being constantly sabotage by several IP addresses, which I guess must be teachers, removing all student-oriented portions and mitigating their own blatant censorship and reduction of students' rights. I serious considered deleting the Freak Hall article anyway, the POV in there is amazing. And we never leave important things to the 7s. They are too naive and don't know enough King 21:35, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

50% go to Ivy Leagues? I doubt it. Sources please? Nohat 15:22, 2004 May 8 (UTC)

Since no one was able to back this assertion up, I'm going to remove it. Nohat 18:37, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

As for the assertion, according to http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/news/newsreleases/2004/nixon.shtml, "One fourth of the class will be attending Ivy League colleges."

Also, I don't know what counts as 'notable', but Jonathon Hoefler is pretty famous for his typography work (typography.com), and Josh Rabinowitz has published in the Linux Journal presented at YAPC and presented and published at USENIX this summer (see  for details). He also teaches perl, and publishes SkateboardDirectory.com and skatetalk.com, which collectively are visited by approximately 4 million people per year. joshr 10/16/2004


 * Try this: write an article about each of the candidate "notable alumni" and if they don't get listed and voted off on Votes for deletion, they then linked to in this article. Nohat 17:46, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've put the stats from the Nixon article into the main article. The unattributed 50% was my fault and was an order of magnitude guess. --zandperl 02:21, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

in the motto, do you mean mind or mine?

--There seems to be a fight going on causing two people to constantly revert the entry. Please cut & paste your edits instead, so that other people's changes don't get lost in your war. Thank you.


 * The hotly-contested changes are as follows:


 * Line 1

"rivaled by Stuyvesant High School, Bronx High School of Science,Brooklyn Technical High School, Townsend Harris High School High School of American Studies at Lehman College, Townsend Harris High School and, Queens High School for the Sciences at York College, High School for Math, Engineering and Science at City College,"


 * Admissions

"During the 8th and 9th grades, many students apply for admission to prestigious high schools such as Bronx High School of Science, Brooklyn Technical High School, American Studies at Lehman College]], Townsend Harris High School Stuyvesant High School, Queens High School for the Sciences at York College, and High School for Math, Engineering and Science at City College,"


 * I think Hunter is only "rivaled by" Bronx Sci and Stuyvesant, not the other schools listed. And I don't know anyone who applied for admission to those schools during 8th and 9th grade.  I would vote for EXCLUDING these changes.

This is mind-numbingly silly. How can it possibly matter the precise constitution of the "rival" set (or the "transfer" set for that matter). Rival for what? How do you decide inclusion? What metric do you use? When do they have to be rivals? In the past? Now? Why aren't all public schools in the set? Why not include the privates? This is an endless rathole and one that offers little value. Even if there was some magic objective standard we could use, its not clear that this even belongs here since its really not an important aspect of HCHS itself (notice that none of these other schools' pages feel a need to list all their rivals). I suggest that if someone feels strongly about this issue that they create a single "NYC rival schools" page and let everyone who cares about that issue duke it out there. Stefansavage


 * I agree. That's why I asked that the people fighting over this issue to stop reverting.  And I voted for exclusion above because I think the whole matter is too subjective (one person thinks there are 12 rivals, I think there were only two, someone else thinks there are none).  In short, Stefansavage, I think you're totally right.

Template
I don't think it is appropriate for this school to have its own infobox. Perhaps use the normal school infobox and delete it? Enochlau 10:53, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Done!--Anakata 03:09, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

notable alumnae/i
Perhaps this should be a separate section? --Hermitage 11:20, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

so-called "subcultures"
Even the title of this section seems ... POV? derogatory? I'm not sure, but I don't like it. I'd suggest replacing it with a section on "normal" high school things that Hunter lacks, such as a football team, homecoming king and queen, prom king and queen, validictorian and salutitorian, class ranks, ... --zandperl 16:01, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

I typed that up last night, and added "so-called" specifically to keep it neutral. (As in, for those who would disagree with the term "subculture" as a means of classifying "types" of high school student.) Perhaps I'm the only one who feels that neutrality was maintained by putting anything possibly offensive in quotes, to indicate that such opinions ("artsy," "jocks") are results of very common stereotypes and not an opinion of the author herself (me). I'd be thrilled if someone could make it better, though. I'm quite new at this. +swaly 21:01, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

"compromise"
not sure what's going on but the "rumors" section is getting progressively clunkier and bogged down with unnecessary neutralizers. "rumor" means "rumor," no need to amend every other sentence. +swaly 12:27, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

culture section
What, no Bridge section? Standards must have fallen!

Seriously, I like all the new material a lot. Really interesting to see what remains the same and what has changed in the 7 years since I graduated. I don't know if it's really "encyclopedic", but who cares, as it goes beyond the usualy boring stuff. Thanks for doing it. --Hermitage 08:00, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

word up. i initially wrote the bulk of it but people are adding new stuff all the time, it's great. +swaly 00:24, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Well...most of it's gone. It's a legitimate topic for sure...the "cultures" within high schools and other kinds of small, self-contained communities are just as valid as points of discussion as larger cultures. It saddens me that for whatever reason...to protect some (unrealistically pristine) image of the school, etc....people find it necessary to omit those details that make the Hunter experience unique. So much of a high school experience and culture is based on its location, environment, "underground" rituals, rules, and traditions, and goes much further than prom, productions or courses. Of course, I might be misunderstanding the purpose of Wikipedia...but I'm convinced that any valid information about any subject should be in its article...neutral POV and all that...that's the whole point of open-source information...thoughts? +swaly 08:26, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to see this stuff be put back in the article. I graduated in '94, and the different "subcultures" are what I remember the most, and it's interesting to see how things have (or haven't) changed. Also, I had no idea that Kyle Baker went to HCHS. I just met him at NY Comic Con last month! --SHODAN 18:04, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

student culture
this section is huge. maybe the G.O. should get its own section under "student government" and we need a section on the Big Sib program, and possibly that seemingly honor society in which yearly 100 to 200 people apply and 10 to 20 people get in (im referring to HUNs of course).

"Is considered", status, etc.
The two statements "it is considered neither public nor private" and "The high school is also considered to be the top-ranked public feeder high school in the nation" are obviously contradictory, and the latter begs the question "considered by whom?". In a related vein, the "outranking the next highest high school in New York City (Stuyvesant High School) by nearly 100 places (#26 vs #120)" claim clearly has a citable source, so it should be cited. RossPatterson 22:56, 29 September 2005 (UTC) (Stuyvesant '76, son of Mary Ingram HCHS circa '48)


 * - I can't explain this well, and I don't have a source, so I won't edit the main page. But the reason why the first point seems contradictory is because there's a lot of confusion about Hunter's status. It receives funds from the Board of Ed, but isn't run by it, so while it's not technically a public school, some people call it one anyway. This is not a fun thing to have to explain on a regular basis. (From your local unregistered person.)


 * Isn't it run and funded through CUNY? CUNY is a public university. Thus, Hunter is a public school. Anyway, it would be hard to argue that it's a private school. I'd just scratch the "neither public nor private" bit. --Hermitage 05:13, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


 * As far as I'm aware, public high schools are run by local boards of education. Hunter isn't. It's run by Hunter College and is only accountable for select Board of Ed standards. Most people don't consider it a public school. But a few do. That, at least, is worthy of note. (Local unregistered person back again.)


 * It is a "magnet" school (must test to get in, like the private schools, free like the public schools), and is run by the Board of higher Education due to its affiliation with CUNY Hunter College.

Possible error in diploma requirements?
(title changed from "possible error?" Podkayne 00:54, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I quote: "graduation requirements are completed in the 11th. Virtually all students, however, (likely unaware of their options or simply wishing to be more desirable to colleges) stay on for the 12th grade"

Um, are you sure? Because when I went to school there was a rule saying you have to pass all 5 electives senior year in order to graduate. I was too clever by half, and knew that my actual required courses were out of the way, so I kind of blew off calc senior year, only to be bitten in the butt by this rule. I'd like someone to check on that, or I'll delete the sentence... don't want other students to have to go to summer school like I did! :-) --Hermitage 05:22, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps there's a confusion between the HCHS requirements and the NY State regents requirements? You finish your NY State requirements after 11th grade, and I suppose you could decide to graduate with what is called a "regents diploma" from the New York State Department of Education. But I have a hard time imagining that HCHS would give you an HCHS diploma without the senior year experience. Podkayne 00:54, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Merge
I don't even think it has to be discussed that a "hallway" (especially one of a high school) should have its own article. I'm not even sure this is appropriate for a wikipedia article at all, but at the very least it should be merged into the article on the highschool.--Esprit15d 14:24, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

The Freak Hallway
Personally, I have to object to the amount of attention lavished on the Freak Hallway. I graduated in 2004, and find it hard to believe that the hallway has become as important as the page would indicate. As I remember, it was a place where 10 or 15 students ate their lunch and hung out. While the kids who spent time there may have embraced their "geek" status, let's face it: if you went to Hunter, you were a geek/nerd/weirdo. Frankly, any mention of the Freak Hallway isn't appropriate on Wikipedia. If there were an article about the Freak Hallway in some source worth citing, then perhaps it's worth including, but to my knowledge that isn't the case.

It is a fact that hunter is in competition with many other schools that are specialized. It is also stated fact that many leave to go to these specialized schools. Please don't remove facts. 24.239.149.9 14:42, 26 December 2005 (UTC)


 * It's now called the loser hallway, not the freak hallway. 146.95.24.81 (talk) 16:13, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

The Freak Hallway's popularity waxed and waned throughout my time there (93-99). During the time I most involved in it, it was the least in vogue, and I take pride in that :)

Killer "lore"
I'm curious about the source for some of the killer-related material in the extracurricular activities section -- in particular the claims about events in the 1980's. I played killer at HCHS from 84-87 and I ran the games in 86-87. The infamous transit police incident with K.H., while serious, is being overblown. He was never nearly shot. As _I_ recall, he was simply stopped. There were also mitigating circumstances -- he painted his gun black and had it visible. I'm also unaware of the taxicab or arm breaking stories during the 80s. We did jump in front of a moving taxicab's hood once, but the windshield never broke (consider how much force this would require). Anyway, I'm confident that the "nearly shot" bit is too strong and I'd like to hear if someone has first hand knowledge of the other events. --Stefansavage 08:54, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Someone removed the para on Killer and also deleted some recently added sections on alcohol at Spirit Day and lower-termer abuse. I think the sections deserve a place in the article; the page does not have to be (should not be, even) completely complimentary of the school. While I am adamantly opposed to removing the Killer section (it's an integral upper-termer experience), what are you thoughts on the other sections in question? Rusty 23:04, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with keeping the Killer section, although I don't endorse it. I left Hunter before the 12th grade, so don't ask me what I know about it. See also my post below. --Tinlinkin 09:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Brick Prison Playhouse and Hunter Theater Ensemble
The main page discusses Brick Prison Playhouse as a group that performs student-written material and Hunter Theater Ensemble as a group that does non-Hunter plays. The existence of both groups at a time must be new. I seem to remember that up until the late 80s there was only the Brick Prison Playhouse. The administration forced the group to change its name to Hunter Theater Ensemble because Brick Prison Playhouse was too pejorative and gave a bad impression or something like that. Students called HTE "HATE" for the first few years because we were annoyed at the forced name change. It sounds like the name has been revived under a new guise. Now, I don't think the main page for the school needs to mention the whole HATE business, but if someone else can confirm the name change, perhaps a note could be added to the main page stating that HTE used to be called Brick Prison Playhouse, in case any alumns get confused? Podkayne 00:57, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... this sounds like revisionist history to me. I believe BPP was founded in 1984 (after HTE as I recall) and I know for a fact that we had both HTE and BPP in 1986 and 1987 and their membership was significantly different. Stefansavage 05:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

So I checked my 1986 yearbook, and you are correct that both groups existed that year. Apparently my memory is faulty - I wonder what event I'm misremembering? I didn't mean to be "revisionist". Podkayne 16:30, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

BPPH (the original name was four words) was founded in the fall of 1982 (first performance: 1983), primarily as a counter to the C&T Dept.-sanctioned Performing Group in Dramatics (pure theater) and Musical Rep (musicals), the two existing dramatic groups at the time. Check the '83 yearbook for confirmation of dates. HTE did not exist at the time. 192.116.117.243 11:33, 4 January 2007 (UTC) Chuck Kanafi

Why has the theater material been removed? El Mariachi 08:24, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Graduation years
Just to reiterate my comment in the main article, I would like the graduation years of each alumnus/a listed, if known. --Tinlinkin 09:07, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Done, for the most part. --Tinlinkin 05:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

famous peeps
lots of famous people went to hunter, should we have a section for theM? --Mikeazorin 21:56, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Gatherer?
Would 146.95.223.147 like to explain why he/she put Gatherer as the school's mascot? I was always under the impression that it was a hawk.--Anakata 01:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I've gone ahead and changed it back to hawk.--Anakata 02:10, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

reversions/deletions, controversies
There have been anonymous users who consistently delete some information in this article, without explaination in the Edit Summary (that's right below the text box of the article being edited) or the talk page. As controversial the content may be in question, it has a right to be there. There is a good side and a bad side to everything. Suppressing either side violates a neutral point of view. Yes, I wish the best for HCHS and the school deserves its praise, but as Rusty said above, not all schools are perfect, not even HCHS.

The following have been the subject of persistent deletions:
 * alumni Felipe Coronel, aka Immortal Technique and Michael A. Burstein
 * the paragraph on "Killer"
 * section on Student Publications

Also, the edit wars about rivals of Hunter (which thankfully seem to have stopped) are mild compared to the deletions above.

If you delete something, all I want to know is why. I feel the reasoning is that the deletions will "sanitize" the article. This, unfortunately, cannot be achieved, as I or someone else may replace the deleted text in the name of POV balance. In Wikipedia, deletion of text without reason or with a false reason is considered vandalism. Personally, I think the good of Hunter outweighs anything bad in the end; however, in any case, the bad (if true) should not be censored. I will change my opinion if someone convinces me with a good reason.

And, if anyone knows what was the outcome or news of the 2006 Annals controversy, I and others would like to know about it. --Tinlinkin 09:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Hunter College High School infobox
Template:Hunter College High School infobox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Anakata 18:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

misinformation about annals
A disproportionate amount of space is dedicated here to a suit that never happened. Increased scrutiny of Annals began in 2004,not 2006, due to parent letters which complained about their children being insulted in its pages, about the inclusion of drug and alcohol references, and about the failure of Annals to fulfill basic journalistic mandates. During years previous to 2004, Annals had repeatedly reported financial losses of thousands of dollars each year due to some combination of poor accounting, free ads being given to editors and their friends (while other students paid hundreds of dollars), and possible embezzlement of funds. With renewed adminsitrative scrutiny, Annals has turned a profit of thousands of dollars in 2005 and 2006. Why did the 2006 "suit" never go forward? Perhaps because it was weak case (the Hazelwood precedent only requires a rational basis for administrative action). The material at issue included remarks about other student organizations, some of which were obnoxious to different constituencies in the school. If the material was "pulled," it was because it was put in despite the disapproval of the faculty advisors, and in one case, without the knowledge of the editors in chief. Advisor approval was required under the school's publications policy. The alumnae petition gave a one-sided version of events.

Please sign your posts. But onwards! I agree that a disproportionate amount of space has been devoted to the Annal controversy, which I suspect will only last until the class of 2007 graduates. However, your post gives an excellent alternative view, and I readily invite you to either add this to the article or change the Annals section completely. I guess I'll let you decide what would be best with your own work. King 10:06, 18 August 2006 (UTC)