Talk:Hurricane Bertha (2008)

Bertha Running Best Track
The running best track for Bertha raised the pressure when it first reached major hurricane status from 948mb to 952mb. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 02:52, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The running best track is not always right. For example, in the 1800 UTC advisory, it said 75 kts, and the NHC then said 70 kts. Weatherlover819 (talk) 08:11, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You have it confused. The best track fixes the errors from the advisories, since it is released afterwards. ♬♩ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 12:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The best track is re-evaluated even in real time. There is a key way of checking.  Check the CHGHUR /Objective aid messages, and note what the positions listed as were 12 and 24 hours beforehand.  They don't always match the TCM/tropical cyclone forecast advisory synoptic position information, because of smoothing made in the best track in real-time.  If they get previous position information from the CHGHUR messages, they're not confused.  Thegreatdr (talk) 15:23, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, please note that the NRL releases track information at 00, 06, 12, and 18 UTC while the NHC releases it at 03, 09, 15, and 21 UTC. There sometimes tends to be a difference in the intensity in the three hour span, especially with rapidly intensifying storms. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 17:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The NHC is releasing the BT. The NRL is just copying the data. -  CWY2190    ( talk  •  contributions )  17:53, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

ah, I was thinking of the public advisories. my bad Cyclonebiskit (talk) 18:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your clarification. I think that the lowest pressure will be still 948 mb, in between 6 hours. Weatherlover819 (talk) 22:54, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree, but since it's not in the best track, we can't use it. Maybe in the TCR they'll include that for when Bertha peaked, as it may have in-between the advisories as you've said. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 13:47, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

The upper low that caused the shear
According to water vapor imagery and model data from yesterday morning, the upper low which caused the shear was the one to its northeast, not the one retrograding ahead of Bertha. I noticed that NHC seemed to imply the latter in its early morning advisory. Thegreatdr (talk) 15:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Neat Image of Bertha
Estimated winds within Hurricane Bertha. It shows that it's nearing Cat:4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyclonebiskit (talk • contribs) 18:09, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * How was that image created? The GOES satellite presentation has been getting stronger and stronger over the last few hours. Definitely some rapid deepening going on. The next NHC update should be interesting...  Plasticup  T / C  18:15, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure how it was made, I was looking through the old CMISS page at camp (the macs there can't support the new one) and opened the file that contained that image. Btw, NRL Update just brought Bertha up to Category two with winds of 100mph and a pressure of 972mb, NHC probably will follow with the same intensity, if not stronger. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:34, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Bermuda Radar
You can get into the Bermuda Airport Radar and Automated Weather Observing System. It is currently down for "maintenance and repairs", but in the future Username: guest Password: guest.  Plasticup  T / C  18:43, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Its back up again... takes a while to load though Itfc+canes=me (talk) 16:50, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks pretty neat right now. I took a couple screenshots and I'll upload them once I figure out the appropriate licensing information.  Plasticup  T / C  16:19, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Newbie edits
Unable to trace user but this is for whoever put the advertisement on the page:

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, one or more of the external links you added do not comply with our guidelines for external links and have been removed. Wikipedia is not a collection of links; nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Itfc+canes=me (talk) 16:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Earliest Annular Hurricane?
This claim needs a citation: "Bertha also became the earliest ever Annular Hurricane on record after a eye-wall replacement cycle on July 10"  Plasticup  T / C  18:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. That implies there is a list of annular hurricanes out there.  I'm not aware of such a thing.  Thegreatdr (talk) 20:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I saw this fact on another Wiki page...... so I put it on here.... Itfc+canes=me (talk) 13:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Itfc+canes=me (talk • contribs)
 * I'm not even sure that it was an annular hurricane, let alone the earliest. If you find a reliable source we can reconsider, but until then I think it is best that this claim stay out.  Plasticup  T / C  02:49, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * THE CURRENT CLOUD PATTERN CONFIGURATION...ANNULAR TYPE...AND LOW SHEAR SUGGEST THAT THE INTENSITY WILL NOT CHANGE IN THE NEXT DAY OR SO. from Discussion #34. HurricaneRulzMath (talk) 03:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Duration, distance traveled
Bertha seems quite exceptional in its longevity. What records is it setting for duration? And for duration in July? Also, given its fast movement and significant duration, has it set any records for distance traveled? I want to familiarize myself with the Atlantic Hurricane Database eventually, but I'm sure that others will be more efficient at this time.  Plasticup  T / C  02:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, for duration. Bertha is the second longest Atlantic hurricane in July, after a storm in 1916. It will soon break the record. Weatherlover819 (talk) 09:15, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Except hurricane 2 was a June storm. Hurricane 3 is the relevant one. Is it best to put this discussion here or on the 2008 season talk page? (There is already bits on both.) crandles (talk) 16:30, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a storm-specific record, so I think the storm-specific page is more appropriate. I'll make a note on the season page.  Plasticup  T / C  16:36, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally with regards to records i would wait for the NHC to either cover it in their advisories or the TCR which should include a record section Jason Rees (talk) 17:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi. Hurricane Bertha is currently the longest-lasting July tropical storm since Allison in 1989, which formed in June. This is speculation, but if the forecast turns out right, then Bertha could easily become the longest-lasting recorded July Atlantic tropical cyclone in recorded history. Yay! Thanks. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 17:38, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

As long as you reference the Atlantic hurricane database, there's no real need to reference an NHC tropical cyclone discussion for the record. They may not think it is an important enough piece information to note in real-time, though it should be in the TCR as an interesting factoid. Thegreatdr (talk) 17:42, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What?! 12 days is the record? While browsing Atlantic hurricane seasons from 1920 to present, I saw one June-July storm (Allison, 1989) and another June storm lasting 13 days. Maybe we should include the record for all tropical storms, but it looks like Bertha will break that too. 18 days should be no problem for this storm. If it does, it will be the only July storm in that table of long lasting storms in the article List of notable Atlantic hurricanes. Also, what do you mean by the Atlantic hurricane database? However, I don't think the distace travelled was that great. Thanks. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 17:58, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember that July Atlantic tropical cyclone refers to tropical cyclones that form in the Atlantic Basin during July, so those that formed in June wouldn't count. This link is HURDAT, the Atlantic hurricane database.  It is a primary source.  Simple scripts can be written to determine all kinds of information including length of track and the duration of a storm's existence.   Thegreatdr (talk) 18:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The storm has been passed as of the 11 am advisory (50 advisories vs. 49). CrazyC83 (talk) 15:32, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

[http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2008/al02/al022008.public.051.shtml? ...BERTHA NOW THE LONGEST-LIVED JULY TROPICAL STORM IN HISTORY...] -- RattleMan 21:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

After Bertha has beaten Irenes duration there is Lisa and Jeanne of 2004 then Ivan. Ivan isn't going to be beaten and 2004 isn't long ago. Nor is Ginger 1971 going to be beaten. What is the second longest duration since 1971? (So far found Lisa 16 days and nothing over 18 days) If Bertha takes this, would saying this appear more sensible than longest since 2004? crandles (talk) 10:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Irene had 56 advisories and Bertha is already up to 57. It's definitely time to think about what we're going to compare it to instead of Irene. If Jeanne is the most recent storm to outlast Bertha, that would be a safe place to start. DOSGuy (talk) 14:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * We need a Template:Longest lived Atlantic tropical cyclones. And ones for the EPac, WPac, etc while we're at it.  Plasticup  T / C  17:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Does this make a reliable source? It is easily sorted by Length.  Plasticup  T / C  18:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Longest lived Atlantic tropical cyclones‎ Just made this. We might want to expand it a little, maybe to the top 10 storms. I also used data at the daily level, so better data might break up the 5-way tie for 4th.  Plasticup  T / C  03:04, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea, the NHC (and we) had/have a table that lists the top 10 or so, but organizes it by 6-hour periods (24.25 days instead of 24, for example). ♬♩ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 03:30, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well there is this table for "Greatest duration" here: List_of_notable_Atlantic_hurricanes. It should be made into a template, if you ask me.  Plasticup  T / C  16:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Ivan's duration was non-continuous though - it was a remnant low for a couple days as it turned back south and southwest. CrazyC83 (talk) 20:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Even if you discount the remnant low stage, the nhc issued 75 six-hour advisories for Ivan during the season . Same goes for the table, most of the storms on that chart include the extratropical phase, which I don't think is generally counted. Also, as a side note, the tropical wave that became bertha formed 20 days ago today (June 30). Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Distance to burmuda/lack of storm info
There seems a lack of information between July 12 and current information July 16 particularly when this includes closest approach to Bermuda. Is there a source to say how close it got to Bermuda? —Preceding unsigned comment added by C-randles (talk • contribs)


 * "AT 200 PM AST...1800Z...THE CENTER OF TROPICAL STORM BERTHA WAS LOCATED NEAR LATITUDE 32.5 NORTH...LONGITUDE 64.1 WEST OR ABOUT 40 MILES...60 KM...EAST-NORTHEAST OF BERMUDA. -- RattleMan 15:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Its closest point of approach may have been between advisories. Local reports said less than 30 miles, but the TCR will confirm in a few months.  Plasticup  T / C  13:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Bertha Eclipses Irene
Bertha has now surpassed Irene in longevity by one advisory. The NHC issued it's 57th and final advisory on Irene on August 8 at 15 UTC, 2005. The 58th advisory on Bertha was just issued and it looks like more will follow. I wasn't sure whether to use Frances as the next longest lived storm as it spent the last leg of its tropical advisories as a tropical depression. Ivan is a definite as it lived for over 20 days. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 17:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * However, Lixion Avila's latest forecast discussion61 again shows how crafty this man is with the English language: TENACIOUS BERTHA makes sense in most of the meanings the word tenacious has, f. ex. as in persistent, as in stubborn, as in long-living, maybe even as in driving him crazy. --10:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.155.231.26 (talk)

Bertha to be a Hurricane AGAIN )=
Someone kill this cane...Bertha is beginning to annoy me... the Noaa SDT site say that Berthas t number is now 4.0 and 4.0 = cat 1 cane. Shes got a good lookin eye and she will probably be a cane.... When will she die?????? Itfc+canes=me (talk) 20:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Dvorak numbers are just meant to be a guide augmented by an expert's subjective opinion so let's not jump to conclusions. That sort of thing is better suited for the Hurricane Wikia.  Plasticup  T / C  19:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

NRL confirmed that, winds are at 75mph pressure 989mb. Haven't seen one like this in years. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And the NHC advisory confirms it. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  20:38, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Problem is shes looked like a hurricane for ages..... Also her track is getting closer and closer to where I live. The NHC seem confident shes going to weaken but she looks to organised to not. Itfc+canes=me (talk) 20:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, that would be exciting. Bertha hit me last Monday, so we would be connected, in a way.  Plasticup  T / C  02:48, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, folks, it's over. Now extratropical. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  15:07, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Finally after 70 advisories, barring an unimaginable re-transition to tropical (not bloody likely over water <10C). CrazyC83 (talk) 15:15, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

max wind speed at ground level recorded in Bermuda ?
What was the maximum wind speed/gust reported from Bertha at any obs station in Bermuda? Should be placed into article if anyone has it... Ferd Blivid (talk) 19:26, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Iceland
The last potential course before Bertha went extratropical had it headed right for Iceland. Did the extratropical remnants of this storm have any effect on the island?--Prosfilaes (talk) 04:24, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it has gotten that far yet. The "remnants" should be hitting Iceland in a day or two as a very powerful extratropical storm.  Plasticup  T / C  10:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Bertha is very close to hitting iceland. The last update on the intensity from the NRL was last night. Bertha had winds of 65mph and a pressure of 987mb NRL image Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Areas affected
I just want st clarification on this before it's changed on the main page, I remember seeing on TWC that Bertha was producing high waves and rip currents all along the eastern coast of the United States. I know New Jersey is a definite due to the three fatalities but shouldn't the other states along the east coast be included? Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:03, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You could mention that there were waves up and down the northeastern US, but more than that isn't necessary. The only effects worth mentioning in detail are the 3 deaths.  Plasticup  T / C  16:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree, technically Bertha did affect the Eastern Coast of the United States. You might want to put a side note saying it affected this area.Hurricaneguy (talk) 01:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Bertha Images
The Bermuda Weather Service is soliciting pictures, videos, and data from anemometers around the Island during Bertha. They are creating a slideshow. When I get home I am going to ask them about the copyright status of those images - some of them would look good in our article.  Plasticup  T / C  19:32, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

wow
this storm just dosnt wanna give up wind does it?--Jakezing (talk) 20:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It put up a good fight but, unless you know something that I don't, Bertha gave up a few days ago.  Plasticup  T / C  21:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

track
the hurricane track should include the path of the extratropical remnants —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.62.152.121 (talk) 23:46, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * They will be added when the tropical cyclone report comes out and tells us the stregth and coordinates of the EXT low. -- CWY2190    ( talk  •  contributions )  23:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Timeline
Something I have been introducing to articles. Itfc+canes=me (talk) 18:28, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's rather redundant with Timeline of the 2008 Atlantic hurricane season, though. Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 18:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Could it raise the article up a class though??? Itfc+canes=me (talk) 10:05, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * To what? It's currently at B, which is the highest WPTC assesses to without organized discussion. And I personally doubt this would pass GA. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  13:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Meteorological history of Hurricane Bertha (2008)
I'm working an article for the MH of Bertha since it is such a long lived storm. It's currently in a sandbox and hopefully will be complete within a few days. User:Cyclonebiskit/Sandbox3 is where it is located. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 17:11, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * TCR's out. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  15:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Haha, good timing. Hopefully I won't have to cite over 130 references for the article (following my tendency to cite every advisory). It'll take longer than I originally thought, so the completion should be within two weeks (mainly delayed because of school). I may have all of Wednesday off, so if I do, the completion date will be much sooner. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:37, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That would be a first for a storm that really doesn't have much of an impact section. CrazyC83 (talk) 19:31, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I am working on it now, I can't find a lot of source of information. HurricaneSpin Talk My contributions 02:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So I looked up the satellite, convection, organization... is not enough, TCR, TWD and storm discussion doesn't give much information. HurricaneSpin Talk My contributions 02:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There's loads of info, actually. More than enough for a sub-article. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 15:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * On where? HurricaneSpin Talk My contributions 22:53, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The TCR, TWDs, and discussions. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 22:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * TCR don't give much, TWD repeats and storm discussion repeats. HurricaneSpin Talk My contributions 23:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)