Talk:Hurricane Eugene (1993)

Todo
There is quite a bit of work to be done before submitting this as a GAN, so I'll list my concerns below.
 * I would not call it "quite a bit" of work, this should not be too bad. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll chime in on some of these. Overall I feel the prose needs tightening up; far too many unnecessary clauses (and commas) which could just be conjoined into one clear and flowing sentence.  Auree    ★  00:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Lede
*"The fifth named storm and second major hurricane on the 1993 Pacific hurricane season, Eugene developed on July 15, 1993 off the coast of Mexico from a weak tropical wave." -- A couple of things with this sentence...First, what is a named storm? The layman probably won't know what that is. I suggest linking to Tropical cyclone naming. Secondly, there is no need for the year after July 15. Lastly, it says Eugene developed off the coast of Mexico, which implies that it was close, but the storm really developed several hundred miles off the coast. Maybe reword to "The fifth named storm and second major hurricane of the 1993 Pacific hurricane season, Eugene originated from a weak tropical wave that crossed the Atlantic and into the Eastern Pacific without any development". *"Eugene peaked as a 125 mph (205 km/h) Category 3 hurricane, before a gradual weakening trend began." -- "On [Enter date here], the system peaked as a high-end Category 3 hurricane with maximum sustained winds of 125 mph (205 km/h) before Eugene began to move into a region of higher wind shear and cooler sea surface temperatures. *"Weakening further into a tropical depression, Eugene continued heading westward and ultimately made landfall on Hawaii, shortly before dissipation occurred on July 25." -- "Eugene weakened to a tropical depression on [Enter date here] as it headed towards the west, and shortly thereafter, made landfall on Hawaii before dissipation on July 25.
 * Incorporated some of what you said. It was not that far from land, after all and I am pretty sure the average reader knows what a name storm is, it is not listed in WP:WPTC/J. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "Eugene headed initially due westward, before rapidly strengthening into a Category 3 hurricane, while turning northwestward" -- How about "Initially moving to the west, Eugene began to rapidly strengthen, becoming a Category 3 hurricane as it turned towards the northwest."
 * That's not the actual wording. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Ehh, like mine better. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Meteorology History
*"Later that day, there wad evidence of the possible eye feature completely disappeared, and Eugene was no longer forecast to continue intensifying. The National Hurricane Center noted a large amount of uncertainty of the future path of Eugene. For example, it was mentioned that Eugene could possibly head northward. Six hours later, the eye feature re-developed, and meteorologists anticipated further intensification. " -- Just remove these three sentences, they are confusing and unnecessary. *"By early on July 19, the eye of Eugene was well-defined, however, since Eugene was nearing colder sea surface temperatures (SST's), weakening was expected within 12 hours." -- "By the early morning hours of July 19, Eugene displayed a well-defined eye, but weakening was expected as the storm began to enter cooler sea surface temperatures." *"However, early on July 21, the National Hurricane Center changed their forecast and noted that wind shear would instead decrease." -- "changed → "revised" or "updated". *"Late on July 21, Eugene was in an area of moderate wind shear, being generated by an upper-level low near Hawaii." -- "Late on July 21, Eugene entered an area of moderate wind shear, induced by an upper-level low near Hawaii".
 * "After the tropical wave developed significant banding features, the National Hurricane Center began classifying the system as Tropical Depression Six-E late on July 15, 805 mi (1295 km) south-southwest of the southern tip of Baja California" -- Add "while located" or "while situated" before you list how far away from the southern tip of Baja California it is.
 * ✅. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "Even though the depression was expected to quickly intensify into a hurricane within three days, the agency noted a small possibility of afujiwhara interaction between Dora and Six-E." -- Change to "Even though the depression was expected to quickly intensify into a hurricane within three days, the agency noted a small possibility of a fujiwhara effect between the larger Hurricane Dora and Tropical Depression Six-E, in which case the system could be absorbed."
 * Nah, the article explains about the effect. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I must insist on this one, YE. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Why? It is wikilinked, no need to explain per WP:MOS. YE  Pacific   Hurricane
 * I think a brief explanation is warranted here. You're incorporating an extremely high-jargon term (arguably one of the worst) in a rather disjointed sentence. It'd confuse the hell out of me if I were a casual reader, and having to read a different article and possibly still not understanding it afterward due to the poor context is really off-putting.  Auree    ★  00:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "A ragged eye was visible on satellite imagery late on July 16, before quickly disappearing." - "A ragged eye became visible on satellite imagery for a brief time before quickly becoming cloud-filled."
 * That changes the meaning, no. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I must insist on this one as well. An eye doesn't disappear, it just becomes cloud-filled. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That is not true, an eye can disappear, saying it became cloud filled is WP:OR. YE  Pacific   Hurricane
 * "Early July 18, Eugene had intensified into a Category 3 hurricane, and the second major hurricane of the season." -- "Early on July 18, it is noted that Eugene had strengthened into a Category 3 hurricane, becoming the second major hurricane of the season."
 * Hec no, no offense, but that makes it worse. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The first one sounds incorrect. I'd really suggest using mine. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No, there is no need "noted". However, I did a hybrid. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  15:55, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No, there is no need "noted". However, I did a hybrid. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  15:55, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No, how are they confusing? I re-worded it though. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Did a hyprib between the two, so this is ✅. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "Despite this, the storm quickly intensified, and attained its peak intensity with winds of 125 mph (205 km/h) and a minimum barometric pressure of 948 mbar (hPa; 27.99 inHg)." - "the storm quickly intensified" → "the storm continued to intensify".
 * Sorry, but your suggest made it more vague as it does not indicate how fast Eugene intensified. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No, because the storm was ALREADY to intensify, so It can't just start to quickly strengthen. I must insist on this one. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I never said it started to intensify, I said it quickly intensified. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  15:52, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "Despite this, the hurricane further intensified and reached peak winds of 125 mph (205 km/h)..." since a 15 mph jump over several hours isn't all that quick, and you have mentioned strengthening before. I think both "continued to" and "quickly" give a wrong meaning here, so "further" works quite well.  Auree    ★  00:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. 04:12, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "Since wind shear was increasing, and ocean temperatures were becoming colder, Eugene was forecast to weaken quickly" - "Due to the increasing wind shear and colder ocean temperatures, Eugene was anticipated to weaken quickly."
 * No, due is boring old and dead, anticipated is used earlier on the article. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Insisting on this sentence...It makes it sound more grammatically correct, and that matters a lot more than how exciting or boring the article sounds. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No, it called making you writing engaging to the reader, changed to expected. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  15:52, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Both are fine, but I question the essence of this sentence. Can't you just mention when it actually does weaken, and why?  Auree    ★  00:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "After being a low-end Category 3 hurricane for almost 48 hours, Eugene finally weakened back to a Category 2 hurricane late on July 20." - "After being a low-end Category 3 hurricane" sounds incorrect, I'd recommend changing it. Additionally, there is no need for "back" after weakened, since this is the first instance of it weakening to a C2 from C3.
 * It was a C2 before, and the wording sounds fine in my book. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It needs to be changed YE...You want this a GA right? I'm trying to help... TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe for FAC the "back" will have to be removed, and the sounds fine to me, at least for GAN. The only other change for "low-end" I can think of is "minimal", which I don't think that will make it any better than it already is. YE  Pacific   Hurricane
 * "Having been a Category 3 hurricane for about two days, Eugene finally weakened back to Category 2 strength late on July 20." for variety and to resolve the silly bickering. The "back" is fine here, per YE.  Auree    ★  00:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:12, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "Initially, several computers models showed a substantially increase in wind shear values in the near future." -- You link "several computer models"...Only "computer models" need to be linked.
 * That is not true IMO. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Change it, please. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No IMO, since the article this is wikilink mention types of computer models. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  15:55, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I firmly agree with TAWX14 here.  Auree    ★  00:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I removed the sentence. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:12, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "By then, winds were estimated near 90 mph (150 km/h), which indicated Eugene weakened to a Category 1 hurricane." -- "By then" → "At this time".
 * Nah, by then sounds more unusual tan what is in a typical WPTC article. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter if it sounds unusual or not...If it helps the article, add it in...please. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Again, it would be more engaging to the reader, so yeah it does matter. How does it help the article? YE  Pacific   Hurricane  15:52, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Too much pointless bickering, you guys. Either is fine&mdash;leave it to author's style.  Auree    ★  00:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "Early on July 22, the cloud pattern became somewhat disorganized and deep convection significantly diminished." -- Remove "somewhat".
 * Why? YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Because the storm is already being sheared and entering cold waters...Its not going to be "somewhat" disorganized, it IS going to be disorganized. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily true. My wording gives an idea on how disorganized it is. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  15:52, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "the cloud pattern decreased in organization" to express the subtle difference between actual "disorganization" and less organization, as well as to fix TAWX14's concern.  Auree    ★  00:09, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:12, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

*"Shortly thereafter, Eugene weakened further, and was downgraded to a tropical depression on early July 24" -- "Continuing to weaken, Eugene was downgraded to a tropical depression early on July 24." Hurricane 04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "Six hours later, Eugene was downgraded to a tropical storm. Continuing to weaken, convection became limited to the northern quadrant of the system." -- Combine these two sentences.
 * Why? YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Because two separate sentences over that isn't needed. I recommend, "Six hours later, Eugene was downgraded to a tropical storm as convection became limited to the northern quadrant of the storm." TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  15:52, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * My wording is more original. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "While over the island of Hawaii, convection briefly flared on the northern quadrant, but Eugene remained weak." -- "on" → "in".
 * Why? YE  Pacific
 * We discussed this last night, change to "over". TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  15:52, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "On July 25, Eugene passed near a buoy, which reported no abnormal weather, as a result, the Central Pacific Hurricane Center discontinued advisories on Eugene, which was 200 mi (321.86 km) southwest of Lihue, Hawaii." -- "The following day, Eugene passed near a buoy, which reported no abnormal weather. As a result, the Central Pacific Hurricane Center discounted advisories on Tropical Depression Eugene, while centered 200 mi (321.86 km) southwest of Lihue, Hawaii".
 * What about this? YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Change it to my suggestion. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I did a hybrid, so this is ✅. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  15:52, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Preparations and Impact
**No, it is needed, but fixed a grammar error. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:36, 20 November 2011 (UTC) *"However, Eugene caused one casualty, as a 45-year old fisherman was killed when his boat was smashed in rough seas." -- "The only fatality in associated with Eugene was the death of a 45-year old fisherman, who was killed when his boat was destroyed in rough seas." I feel that once all these issues are addressed, it is pretty likely the article will be near, or at, GA quality. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 00:58, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * "In addition, roads dangerous to drive on." -- Just remove this sentence, its unnecessary.
 * ✅. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:36, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  04:35, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I have crossed out the ones that have been addressed or you have given a good reason on why not to change it, but the ones I have not crossed out I firmly believe must be changed. Tropical Analystwx 13  (talk) 00:59, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Merge?
When I created this article, I believed it was a good idea because it was the most recent landfall in Hawaii (which is trivial) and caused one fatality. However, I quickly realized that there was little hope of expanding it further due to the weak nature of impact and that my reasons for creating the article became irrelevant. Additionally, I have proven that it can very easily be condense to begin with and should have no problem fitting in the 1993 Pacific hurricane season. Therefore, I propose that we merge Eugene.--12george1 (talk) 05:29, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair points. Merge. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 05:31, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * While it does sound an okay idea to me, please do not let this recent merging trend go overboard. Focus on adding content, not removing/merging content. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  16:59, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * 12G and I have both been focusing greatly on improving articles. 12G even has a GAN that's being held up by you :P --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 17:09, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Since Christmas, we are -13 on Wikiwork (counting merges as stubs), if I was not lazy, -15. Keep it up, but stay focus, and don't let that article you don't like distract you. YE  Pacific   Hurricane  17:34, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I just don't think it's something to get worried about too much. I don't know what overboard would be, but rest assured I'm still working on improving articles :) --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 17:45, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * With no real opposition here, I am going to merge Eugene.--12george1 (talk) 17:49, 9 January 2013 (UTC)