Talk:Hurricane Felix/Archive 1

Untitled
'Please put all storm discussion on the Hurricane Wikia. Discussion here should only be about the article.'

Past tense
A similar question was raised during Hurricane Dean. Is it possible to maintain a past-tense approach to this article other than in the leading sentence saying "Hurricane Felix is..."? For example, we could say "as of 5pm, the active warnings were...", rather than "as of 5pm, the active warnings are...". There are many other cases where present-tense may creep in to the article, but as we are basing this article on already available information, we can only really report what has already happened, not what is happening. This is a minor detail, but it would re-enforce the warning notice at the top of the article that the information in this article is not current. Sancho 22:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Better worry about that AFTER the entire lifetime of the storm - in which by default, it all becomes past tense. Since this is a current storm, and information will change constantly for the next few days, past/present tense should be moot. KyuuA4 02:53, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No, a Wikipedia article is not an advisory, it is a document that presents facts which have already happened. Thus the past tense is always necessary. -- Ghostreveries 11:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No, this is a current event. As we went through on Dean, not everything on Wikipedia should be in the past tense. The information is current and still applicable until the next advisory. The current information should be present tense. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 13:46, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * What about something like leading the "current information" paragraph with "As of X pm XDT, Hurricane Felix was...., the pressure was... etc." That doesn't seem so bad to me. It also seems to flow better than "as of x pm, Hurricane Felix is...". Sancho 15:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Sancho. Just about everything we cover has happened in the past, the example of an NHC advisory is a good one. — jdorje (talk) 18:28, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

It makes little linguistic sense to say "as of X, it is...". It only is if it truly is present tense, but 8am was be past the moment they issued the bulletin. --Golbez 10:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Redirects
Just like what was done with Dean, I moved Hurricane Felix to being a redirect to this page (and the dab was moved to Tropical Storm Felix). It seemed to work well, and the high intensity suggests that many will be looking straight for Felix. (If it fizzles, it can be relocated back) CrazyC83 00:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't put the dab to the wrong location... please?--Nilfanion (talk) 00:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Cat 4 or 5?
Is Hurricane Felix a Category 4 or a Category 5? The Weather Channel states its a Cat 4.


 * Its a 5. ---CWY2190TC 00:18, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Cat 5 on Sept 3
There's a comment that it's Sept 3 UTC, which is accurate. But from the discussion on Hurricane Dean I understood the policy on hurricanes was to give the local time of the notable event, in which case it would be late Sept 2. Bhudson 01:23, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure about Dean, but nearly every other tropical cyclone article lists notable events in UTC time. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 01:29, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Dean has the notable events written in UTC and local time (AST,EDT,CDT.) i personally think we should restrict local time to the storm boxes and then eveything else in UTC and restrict it to One Time Zone  Jason Rees 01:37, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * We always include local times when something happened. --Golbez 03:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Graupel
Should we add the definition of Graupel, as most of the public doesnt know what it is (Snow thats rimmed by the wind)....... Anung Mwka 03:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * A wikilink should be sufficient. Or put (snow pellets) in brackets right after the term also. Sancho 03:21, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * What's a snow pallet? I think a wikilink would be better... Nil Einne 04:15, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Added wikilink ( Hypnosadist )  04:40, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There already was a wikilink earlier in that paragraph (I take it you are referring to the wikilink added to the last sentence of the paragraph), so I removed the latter one. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 13:44, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Storm Track
Got a prelim storm track up at Felix 2007 track.png. Q T C 12:37, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added it to the Storm History section. Thanks for updating it too.  Plasticup  T /C  02:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Felix was a cat 5 at landfall, correct? Perhaps you can modify the image to reflect this? Even though that might add a dot in the line, I feel it would convey some important points: Felix restrengthed to a cat 5. That is rare. Felix made landfall as a cat 5, that is also rare. One might get the impression from the graphic that Felix was briefly a Cat 5 in the Caribbean sea, and then gradually weakened to cat 4 and lower when making landfall. 129.125.61.211 10:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, the track goes by 6 hour points. There are storms like this that have important intermediate points, and as a result there is a plan to possibly change the track map generator to add landfall and other intermediate points, but it is not the case as of now. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 14:43, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Um, not entirely correct. The software itself doesn't care about the dates/times. It just reads a list of points and makes the appropriate dots/lines. Operationally, I've done plenty of tracks that have all available advisories on them, such as Flossie's. --Ajm81 23:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Records
"Felix set records for the second fastest pressure drop in 12 hours (50 millibars) and the third fastest in 24 hours (63 millibars"

The 24-hour record at least is wrong - it should be fourth by my reckoning (after 97mb in Wilma, 72mb in Gilbert and 70mb in Rita). I don't know how I'm going to source this however. Pobbie Rarr 11:19, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It is also the fastest to strengthen from a TD to a Cat 5 and it will soon set a RECORD OF MONUMENTAL HISTORY!!! That record will make 2007 the ONLY YEAR on record in the Atlantic Basin where more than one hurricane has hit land as a Cat 5 (maybe across all basins)! Amazing!  The great kawa  11:21, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's definitely a record. We need a source however. Pobbie Rarr 13:31, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I found a source for the two cat 5 landfalls in one season...http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/weather/09/04/storm.felix/index.html Tfelts 18:20, 4 Sept 2007 (UTC)

I removed the section, seeing as there were no reliable sources. First, Ethel in 1960 officially has the record for fastest intensification from TD to Cat. 5. Second, the two Cat. 5 records isn't a storm record, it's a season record; seeing as Felix couldn't have done it without Dean, that record should go in the season page. Third, I'd like to see a NHC source saying that; at the very least, wait until post-season data to confirm it. The fourth is also a seasonal record. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 13:56, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Records
 * Felix now holds the record for the fastest intensification from tropical depression to category five, taking about 51 hours. In comparison, most storms take a few days to reach hurricane strength.


 * When Felix reached category 5 hurricane strength, 2007 became only the fourth season to have more than one category 5, after 1960, 1961, and 2005.


 * Felix set records for the second fastest pressure drop in 12 hours (50 millibars) and the third fastest in 24 hours (63 millibars)


 * When Felix made landfall in Nicaragua, 2007 became the first season to have two hurricanes making landfall at Category 5 strength.


 * I would Agree with Hink and say wait untill we have all the records for this year which i think will be covered in the end of season Summuary which will be released at the begginning of DecemberJason Rees 23:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I would like to first state that I do think we need a records section (although I have no problem with waiting, so long as it does end up in here), and secondly, the cited complaing about Hurricane Ethel is incorrect. Judging by this chart, Ethel formed as a depression at 6:00 AM on 09/04/64 and reached it's peak (disputed between Cat 3 and Cat 5; this chart says 3) on 6:00 PM, 09/09/64.  That's 2 1/2 times as long as Felix took to go from nothing to a Cat 5.  So, I have no clue where HurricaneHink is coming from.


 * As for the quality of the sources, sure, we'd like better. On the other hand, these are credentialed hurricane experts.  Jeff Masters, for example -- Ph.D in Meteorology, former Hurricane Hunter (nearly killed flying into Hugo), 2006 Merit Award as Aluminus of the year from University of Michigan, Cofounder of The Weather Underground, and is their Director of Meteorology.  Sure, it says "blog" in the URL, but this is the Director of Meteorology writing on the site of the company for which he is the director for (hardly the conventional concept of a blog). -- Rei 20:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Wrong Ethel, its Hurricane Ethel (1960).--Nilfanion (talk) 20:34, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * My mistake; checked the wrong link for windspeeds ;).  Still, whether Ethel (1960) really was a Cat 5 or not is debatable.  It had a pressure of 972, with no sizable swells, which I've seen called "impossible" for a Cat 5 more than a few times (and is certainly a huge datapoint standout).  The fact that its readings before that were Cat 3, and after that a weak Cat 1, certainly doesn't help bolster the case for the 160 being a sustained wind.  Either way, Felix *at least* merits the #2 slot.
 * I'm not sure we need a separate records section, per se. But weaving the record info in the storm history is something I consider to be even better. Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 06:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That makes sense, given that Wikipedia's guidelines on "Trivia" sections are to do just what you suggested. -- Rei 17:10, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Time Zone
Shouldn't this article now be tracking this in either Central Standard Time instead of AST? It's been over land for the last several hours over Nic. and they are in Central Standard Time. What I'm not sure of is if they observe daylight savings or not. Jon 20:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It should be eastern daylight since thats what the NHC advisories say. ---CWY2190TC 20:52, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Change to Death Toll
http://uk.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUKN0129218720070906

Should be 38.(Not that it won't be rising later) 66.75.25.210 01:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * 39 due to the death in Honduras from a different source. CrazyC83 02:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

52 of the 200 Miskito Indians who were missing at sea have been found alive. I am too busy to update the article unfortunately. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0129218720070906?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews.  The great kawa  12:39, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Impact table
Could you please change this table to fit in Felix. It could be very useful.

-- TheFE ARgod (Ч) 12:37, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Please no. Most of the deaths will be in a small area - the table is large and bulky, and is unnecessary for this article. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 14:42, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Good point and few details have been released. I have thought about it, but there would be a lot of "unknown" numbers in there. If more details come out, then it might be workable. CrazyC83 15:11, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * We could make that table work in this Article but we will have to wait untill the TCR comes out so we have more infomation on the Deaths and Damages for Felix Jason Rees 02:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I, for one, don't like that table. What is wrong with a simple impact table, like the following (with the correct values put in once finalized) Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:23, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not even sure why that big table is even necessary. Having state totals would suffice, IMO, and even that is still probably too detailed. Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 02:54, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

So are we inserting a table or not? I'll put the smaller one in if no one minds. Pobbie Rarr 21:55, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * We should wait for now until we get some finalized numbers. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Unlike Dean (or any US hurricane), this has a lot of vague numbers and few details. There are still hundreds missing (many of them - but not all - probably dead). Damage estimates are difficult to find as well as much of the damage in Central America is probably not insured, making a 2-to-1 ratio not correct. CrazyC83 14:43, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Remove Tags
The two tags should be removed from the article. The system has fully dissipated as indiciated by both radar and satellite data from Mexico. The TPC has also issued its final advisory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theonlysilentbob (talk • contribs) 18:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC) They should not have been removed. Significant thunderstorms are currently occurring in Southern Mexico and Guatemala, capable of flooding. 66.75.25.210 05:26, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Track
Please get an updated track. I doubt it stopped on the Nicaragua/Honduras border. -- TheFE ARgod (Ч) 20:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

No. Because we Rely on the NHC best track data which left Felix on the Nicaragua/Honduras border. we will have to wait until the TCR comes out to see if we need to update the Track further. Jason Rees 02:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Or to be more precise, we don't have any data with which we can update the track. We could eyeball it, but that's WP:OR, so we don't do it. So, we usually wait until we have a reliable source, which usually is the Tropical Cyclone Report (TCR) by the National Hurricane Center. Tito xd (?!? - cool stuff) 02:56, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually it looks like the last point is missing. The last point on the track is at TS strength when the last advisory was for a TD. --Ajm81 02:59, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, why it isn't a cat 5 before landfall? -- TheFE ARgod (Ч) 10:58, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

please Read Above Comments before posting please The Fear god "Unfortunately, the track goes by 6 hour points. There are storms like this that have important intermediate points, and as a result there is a plan to possibly change the track map generator to add landfall and other intermediate points, but it is not the case as of now. Hurricanehink (talk) 14:43, 6 September 2007 (UTC)" Thanks Jason Rees 19:40, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

404 - broken reference
"_ref-6" is a 404... http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/224930.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jelle (talk • contribs) 20:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Still start?
It's got the prep, impact, and aftermath. What else? Juliancolton (talk) 21:42, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's also got red wikilinks, which a GA article shouldn't have. Either the articles need to be created, or the wikilinks removed.  Thegreatdr (talk) 17:03, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * While there may be excesive red links in this one, there a FAs that have at least a few red links. Otherwise, the last thing we need is a bunch of stubs, so I think we remove them. Juliancolton (talk) 17:04, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Sub-articles?
Would they be appropriate for fixing up this article? Although it was quite a short-lived storm, I think we'd get interesting things in a storm history. Effects may be more difficult since major impacts were focused on one region...although I'd wait for the TCR to do such. CrazyC83 (talk) 14:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, we have to wait for the TCR or preliminary report (same thing, I just don't know which one they ues now). But I think it could be a good idea. The meteorological history could be very interesting. Effects, and I agree with you, CrazyC83, could be hard. Juliancolton (talk) ( Happy New Year! ) 14:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Comments (for GA review)
Very in-depth article, and detailed.


 * 1) Aren't hurricanes always destructive?
 * 2) Why are the times in UTC?
 * 3) "Made landfall" - no idea what that means

So far (that's just the lead so far). More later. Howdoyouturnthison (talk) 22:59, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * 1) "the wave axis tracked through a moist environment" - clueless on what that means
 * 2) " more representation of the cyclonic turning into the low." Confusing
 * 3) "the National Hurricane Center initiated advisories on Tropical Depression Six" What?

I've given up reading the article, as it could honestly do with a thorough copy-edit. The text is confusing for someone like me who knows nothing about hurricanes. The Aftermaths and Retirement sections need expansion. This would not pass as a good article yet I'm afraid. Howdoyouturnthison (talk) 13:26, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Aftermath? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 04:17, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 18:31, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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