Talk:Hurricane Gordon/Archive 1

Retirement in 2006
I know this puts bad news on someone, but I do hope the name Gordon is retired in 2006...let's get it out of their misery, even if it does far less devastation than in 1994! CrazyC83 23:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Retire it commemoratively. The WMO need to take some legitimate heat for their idiocy. They need to redeem themselves.


 * E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 18:20, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Removal of "Haiti's tragic hurricane history" from article
While Hurricane Gordon could certainly be included in the subject of Haiti's tragic hurricane history, I dont believe that it should be included in the Hurricane Gordon article as it does not directly relate to information on Hurricane Gordon. Perhaps this would be better noted on Haiti's Wikipedia page. I have updated the topic to more accurately reflect the devastation in Haiti that was caused by Hurricane Gordon, and removed the specific references to the other storms. (10/10/2005) Fumetsu


 * Agreed


 * E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 22:38, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Beware of possible changes during the hurricane re-analysis with this storm
A number of meteorologists believe that the system that ejected out of the Caribbean into the southwest Atlantic and the subtropical cyclone that formed in the Florida Straits were two different systems; both are currently considered one system named Gordon. There was a brief time period where one could follow the two different low centers. Just an FYI, in case it is ever decided to split the track of Gordon into two separate tracks in the next decade during the hurricane re-analysis. Thegreatdr 17:25, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Very interesting. Yea, looking at satellite images, it looks like Gordon 1 dissipated near Cuba while Gordon 2 was developing. Time will tell, and that would be cool if that happened. I'm always for getting more storms in a season after the fact. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 20:15, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Based on my observations using the GIBBS imagry, it appears that Gordon was one storm. At one point north of Cuba, it does appear as though the system has two LLCCs. However, looking farther back, there doesn't seem to be any other systems active in the southwestern Atlantic until Gordon gets there. Once Gordon gets there, it seems to interact with a trough moving off the east coast of the United States. That trough shows up quite clearly in this reverse infrared image as that smaller black mass off the Carolinas north of Gordon's outer bands. Gordon had a broad circulation as it was and when it hit Cuba, weakened, and interated with that trough, the circulation became elongated from the northeast to the southwest . This caused the storm to appear as though it had two centers. When the trough became less of an influence , Gordon's circulation consolidated . That is my hypothesis, based on my analysis of the satellite imagry. -- § Hurricane E  RIC § archive 22:34, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Better pic
I added a GIBBS image to replace the other, really close up one. I know, GIBBS isn't exactly the best, but at least you can see the whole storm and get an idea on where it's at. If you have a problem with it, just revert it. ;) →Cycl  one1 → 19:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Pic
Where did that close-up, NASA pic go? That was the best one we had. -- § Hurricane E  RIC § archive 00:56, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Uhh... I posted above saying where I took it off. It was waaaaaay too close, so I posted a new GIBBS image. Now, my pic has been replaced with a color image (which personally can't compare to either of the previous pics.) So, that's where it went. Feel free to put it back in the article. →Cycl   one1 → 22:34, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Todo
Good article. More info should be merged into the haiti section from the impact section. Also, references are needed. Jdorje 21:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I dropped it to start class. I don't think it's quite organized enough yet. Hurricanehink 18:24, 16 April 2006 (UTC)


 * That's because our standards are going up! This was B-class when I first assessed it.  But I don't disagree with Start-class. — jdorje (talk) 05:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * True, and it's always good when standards go up. Hurricanehink 00:47, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Way too much is needed for the article for this to be considered C-class: impact? preps? aftermath? ♬♩ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 06:39, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Preparations is the most glaring omission from this article.  Once that is added, it should have enough of the correct structure for a C class article.  An impact section already exists, even if it is not as long as some might like.  Thegreatdr (talk) 18:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Preparations and aftermath, at the least, are needed for C-Class. Anything higher definitely needs a substantially expanded impact section. The MH looks good, though. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  18:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

If someone is looking to expand upon the article information-wise, there are rainfall totals listed on a few HPC rainfall pages related to the system. I just uploaded a more current version of the rainfall graphic to commons. Thegreatdr (talk) 18:06, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Todo again
More everything!. Storm05 18:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Link --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:52, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 18:31, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 30 October 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: No consensus for a move. I might suggest making Hurricane Gordon redirect to this page, and add a hatnote to direct readers to the other storms listed at Tropical Storm Gordon. (non-admin closure) Bradv  21:59, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Hurricane Gordon (1994) → Hurricane Gordon – Obviously the primary topic. Jdcomix (talk) 14:23, 30 October 2016 (UTC), Relisting. Jdcomix (talk) 14:45, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose malformed request, that is a dab page. And no not obvious that one Hurricane on that list is automatically more significant than all the others combined. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:07, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
 * So the only hurricane named Gordon that killed over 50 people isn't the obvious primary topic? Maybe you should look at this. Jdcomix (talk) 13:23, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination. Analogous to the deadly Tropical Storm Allison which is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of Tropical Storm Allison (disambiguation). &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 22:09, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Support. Clearly the primary topic because of its impact. If that changes in the future, we can revisit it then.  Calidum   ¤   20:29, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose: I don't think this is the primary topic. This article gets slightly more views than other articles. Fuortu (talk) 12:05, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Support as WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. It already gets more page views than the other articles combined,|Hurricane_Gordon_(2000)|Hurricane_Gordon_(2006)|Hurricane_Gordon_(2012) and was the most significant in terms of significance. There's an element of recentism in the prominence of the 2000s storms.--Cúchullain t/ c 18:10, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose. There are some curious |Hurricane_Gordon_(2000)|Hurricane_Gordon_(2006)|Hurricane_Gordon_(2012) spikes in pageviews on a couple of days this year, but I think the numbers remain relatively even over time. Usually the primary topic in these situations is the one that caused the name to get retired (as in the case of the aforementioned Tropical Storm Allison), but there is no such candidate here. Hurricane Gordon (1994) does contain a section speculating on the lack of such a retirement despite the number of fatalities, but it suggests that the only reason it was so devastating was because Haiti lacked the appropriate notification infrastructure. Either way, I don't think there's enough evidence to support changing the status quo. &mdash;Gordon P. Hemsley&rarr; &#x2709; 08:12, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination. --219.79.96.41 (talk) 12:01, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose given Gordon 06's severe impact on Europe, I don't think we can call this, safely and surely, the primary topic. YE Pacific  Hurricane 16:33, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Support. Most page views, far and away the most casualties and dollar value damage, and also, as points out, the "most significant in terms of significance". What more can one ask of a PTOPIC?  &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 21:30, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Pageviews are a terribly biased method that should not be used for decision making. The problem is the name has been used for multiple storms in multiple regions.  People from each region should not be expected to be aware of storms in other regions.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:52, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose: per Tropical Storm Gordon in particular there being four Hurricane Gordons. Ebonelm (talk) 12:21, 2 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 8 February 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) TonyBallioni (talk) 02:11, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Hurricane Gordon (1994) → Hurricane Gordon – It may be the primary topic. Gordon in 1994 caused more than 1,100 deaths and the damage is near $600 million. 219.79.250.146 (talk) 00:53, 8 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose The ones in 2000 and 2006 are also important.&mdash; CycloneIsaac ( Talk ) 01:14, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose per arguments presented in the previous discussion. YE Pacific Hurricane  16:36, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose – people in the British Isles and the Caribbean/North America may have a completely different idea of which Gordon is being referred to. ~ KN2731 {talk} 12:59, 12 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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It's about time...
Alright, so this has been bothering me for a while, and I'm sorry, but I just had to bring this up. If Hurricane Gert and Hurricane Karl are primary topics, then why isn't Gordon? Like Gert and Karl, whose reasoning for primary topics were that they were the most significant storms of their name, this Gordon is the most significant storm of its name (yes, there is Gordon 2006, but it was not even a tropical cyclone when it struck Europe, and its impacts were far less significant). Additionally, Gordon has its own meteorological history page, and is the only non-primary topic to have so due to its interesting meteorological history (which is another reason why it could be moved). It's been nearly twelve years, and despite the fact that its by far the most significant Gordon, it still has the year attached. It might finally be time to take off the year. Cooper 14:40, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

What do you all think?
 * Have a look at the two Requested Moves above for why it hasn't been moved yet, the main argument seems to be about Gordon's impact on Europe.Jason Rees (talk) 23:01, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Which I understand, but it seems that Gordon's impact on Europe is far less significant than that on Haiti (Gordon was extratropical by the time it reached Europe anyways) Cooper 23:35, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I am personally open to it being moved but you will need to go through another requested move. However, the fact that it was extratropical means nothing especially these days, as the names are still used and can be retired because of their impacts.Jason Rees (talk) 23:54, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's true now that I look at it. For example Sandy, which wasn't tropical during its New Jersey landfall. Will probably wait a while to do another move request, as I feel I've done too many. Cooper 02:23, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Gordon 06 is significant on its own though to readers in Europe. YE Pacific Hurricane  01:22, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 13 October 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Consensus exists per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC to move the page to Hurricane Gordon. Noah Talk 19:27, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

The 1994 Hurricane Gordon is clearly the primary topic. It did significantly more damage and killed more people than all of the other storms named "Gordon" in the North Atlantic, including every other Gordon that made it to hurricane status. The death toll of 1,122 is also significantly higher that what we see from most storms in the Atlantic hurricane basin in contemporary times. |Hurricane_Gordon_(2000)|Hurricane_Gordon_(2006)|Hurricane_Gordon_(2012) The pageviews for the 1994 storm shows that its article usually receives significantly more traffic than those of the other hurricanes with the same name. Sure, a couple of the other Gordons in the North Atlantic were also pretty significant for the areas they impacted (specifically, the 2006 and the 2018 storms), but none of the other storms come anywhere close to this storm in terms of overall significance. Also, the vast majority of mentions on "Hurricane Gordon" that I've seen in the media refer to the 1994 storm. Whenever I see an article referring to a "Hurricane Gordon" that referenced it as a strong candidate for retirement (without the year mentioned), it was always referring to the 1994 storm. Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:CONCISE, any storm that is clearly the primary topic should get the main title, without the year. The actual retirement status is irrelevant. While most of the retired storms are the respective primary topics, some of them clearly aren't. As such, I propose moving this article to "Hurricane Gordon."  Light and Dark2000  🌀 (talk) 20:58, 13 October 2021 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Hurricane Gordon (1994) → Hurricane Gordon
 * Strongly Support – Per my arguments above, and also the recent move of Typhoon Jebi (2018) to Typhoon Jebi.  Light and Dark2000  🌀 (talk) 20:58, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 *  Support Per L&D2000's argument above, seems reasonable enough.🌀CycloneFootball71🏈 |sandbox 03:30, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Support – rationale is straightforward, no qualms here. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 03:48, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Neutral leaning oppose – 2006’s incarnation was also significant in Europe. MarioProtIV (talk/contribs) 04:05, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Strong Support The 1994 hurricane killed between a thousand to eighteen hundred and fifty. Please move the article title just Hurricane Gordon, “1994” excluded from the title of the article. Angela Kate Maureen (talk) 18:32, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment - While looking at the primary topic for Hurricane Gordon we have to bear in mind that the name Gordon was retired because of what was considered to be a hurricane in the South Pacific at the time.Jason Rees (talk) 19:44, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Support : far more damage than the other four Hurricane Gordons in lives and economy. You would think they would retire names after serious damage was done from named storms such as Hurricane Mitch where the name was retired and has not been used since. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 18:58, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Support, until/unless Gordon next year is a Hurricane that threatens land. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 19:17, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per my !vote in 2016 &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 19:23, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Support. Gordon 2006 is more notable as a windstorm than as a hurricane, and it better known as Windstorm Gordon than Hurricane Gordon. Destroyer (Alternate account) 19:32, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Extreme Support. As per Destroyeraa, 2006 Gordon is a notable windstorm, more than a notable tropical cyclome, as 1994 Gordon was super deadly and notable vs 2006, 2000, 2012 and 2018 Gordon. CyclonicStormYutu (talk) 14:40, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Extreme Support: The storm was very deadly unlike other hurricanes named Gordon (2000, 2006, and 2012), unless 2024's Gordon is more damaging or deadly, or any other future Gordon's in the Atlantic are more deadly or damaging, this article can be "Hurricane Gordon". - HurricaneKappa (talk) 14:54, 21 October 2021 (UTC)