Talk:Hurricane Hanna (2008)/Archive 1

Relevant material
Now that the storm has passed (literally), what is the relevance of highly-detailed closure information concerning sports games and higher education along the eastern seaboard?Pufferfyshe (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Tropical Storm or Tropical Cyclone?
Shouldn't it read "8th Tropical Storm" rather than "8th Tropical Cyclone"? From my understanding, a hurricane is the North American term for a Tropical Cyclone. 207.105.30.44 (talk) 01:08, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Daniel.
 * Normally, yes. But a tropical cyclone is the designation for any such cyclone, even of tropical depression strength. Hurricane Angel Saki (talk) 06:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

article name?
I noticed that the lead says, "Hurricane Hanna is the eighth tropical cyclone and fourth hurricane of the 2008 Atlantic hurricane season." This would seem to imply that the storm is presently, now a hurricane. Shouldn't it either say "Tropical Storm Hanna is the eighth tropical cyclone and was the fourth hurricane of the 2008 Atlantic hurricane season," or "Hurricane Hanna was the eighth tropical cyclone and fourth hurricane of the 2008 Atlantic hurricane season"? Of course, if you change it, then when it becomes a hurricane again, it should be changed back to its present wording. 69.140.152.55 (talk) 10:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If a storm becomes a hurricane, the article name always remains Hurricane name (year) and the lead section always takes such into consideration. CrazyC83 (talk) 21:04, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

But as I know, there will be a rise of the number of the death,this is horrible. What we can do now is to prey for the bad luck man and women! God bless them! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.17.221.39 (talk) 04:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Haiti has a poor record in retiring names, so I think the article should remain at Low-importance with no redirecting unless it rises significantly more. CrazyC83 (talk) 15:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Heavy copyright volations
The majority of the section on Haiti was a simple copy/paste from the Miami Herald. If someone wants to work in the information from the source that's great, but you have to write it.  Plasticup  T / C  16:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I reworded the entry. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 22:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Semi-Protect please
Can we get this page protected? Trying to access it from main page and got "shit hahahah". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.252.80.44 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 5 September 2008 Someone tried to vandlise the page. But it appears to have been reversed now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.194.114 (talk • contribs) 19:19, 5 September 2008

Deaths
I think i heard that someone died in a rip current in the carolinas, but i could be wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.213.114.164 (talk • contribs) 19:47, 5 September 2008
 * According to LSRs from WFO ILM (http://www.erh.noaa.gov/ilm/) in Wilmington, NC, nobody has been killed in the storm. There was a death of a 40-something y/o male last week, but it wasn't due to rip-currents from Hanna (as far as I know... I'll go back and check storm reports). 64.150.128.62 (talk) 13:41, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Above comment was made by me without logging in. Adding sig now. ;-) Cyphr Bellic (talk) 13:43, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Evacuations
Some places along the Eastern Seabord were evacuated, including Christopher Newport University. Should this be included anywhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.239.179.146 (talk) 01:23, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Voluntary evacuations were issued in numerous coastal counties in South and North Carolina. A few islands in North Carolina were placed under mandatory evacuation orders. Also, why is it mentioned that DC's EOC was activated when it hasn't mentioned anywhere preparations made by SC/NC/VA's EOC? 64.150.128.62 (talk) 13:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Above comment was made by me without logging in. Adding sig now. ;-) Cyphr Bellic (talk) 13:43, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

United Kingdom
The chart on the front article does seem to indicated that the hurricane is heading towards the U.K, presumably riding on the Gulf Stream.

Will there be any assurances that this storm's life won't be extended as it reaches British Shores, taking Global Warming into account?

88.105.109.11 (talk) 09:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * At the moment, the forecast track shows that the storm will move to the north west of the UK, possibly only affecting the northern half, if it ever affects the UK at all. By which time, it would be extra-tropical, and would have lost a lot of intensity, and probably only remnants would be left. This sort of thing happens every year, because of the lack of warm waters due to the high latitude of the country. And even if Global warming takes effect, we've got a long way off hurricanes themselves ever reaching the UK. Chris1193 (talk) 13:07, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

It will be undergoing extratropical transition within the next 24 hours, and once it passes the maritimes, expect it to be fully extratropical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.215.66.158 (talk) 14:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Name question
I don't understand this: why naming it hurricane and for the most period of time (and destructive wake) it was a TS?-- TheFE ARgod (Ч) 08:50, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Because when a storm attains hurricane strength, it is, for all intents and purposes, no matter what, Hurricane ____. For instance, Gordon of 94 killed 1,000 people while active in Haiti, was a hurricane for only a minimal period of time northeast of Florida, never making landfall as such. However, it's considered Hurricane Gordon officially because that's the intensity it peaked as. Hurricane Angel Saki (talk) 09:13, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * thank you-- TheFE ARgod (Ч) 09:14, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Rainfall totals/reports/peak winds
These are all the totals and what not from Southern New York/Western Connecticut. Hope it helps with the article.

Statement as of 02:15 am EDT on September 07, 2008

... Record daily maximum rainfall set at Central Park NY...

a record rainfall of 3.26 inch(es) was set at Central Park NY yesterday. This breaks the old record of 2.24 set in 1926.

Local Storm Report

09/06/2008 0800 PM

1 miles N of Hawthorne, Westchester County.

Flash flood, reported by law enforcement.

Saw Mill river parkway closed between exits 25 and 27 due to flooding

09/06/2008 1000 PM

1 miles E of Bronxville, Westchester County.

Flash flood, reported by law enforcement.

Hutchinson river parkway closed between Cross County parkway and NYC line due to flooding

09/06/2008 0400 PM

Yonkers, Westchester County.

Tropical storm, reported by public.

Wires down due to wind

09/06/2008 0545 PM

5 miles S of Scarsdale, Westchester County.

Flash flood, reported by trained spotter.

Bronx river parkway closed near County Highway 2

09/06/2008 0555 PM

1 miles W of New Rochelle, Westchester County.

Flash flood, reported by public.

Hutchinson river parkway closed at Cross County parkway

09/06/2008 0555 PM

1 miles W of New Rochelle, Westchester County.

Flash flood, reported by public.

Hutchinson river parkway closed at Cross County parkway

09/06/2008 0545 PM

5 miles S of Scarsdale, Westchester County.

Flash flood, reported by trained spotter.

Bronx river parkway closed near County Highway 2

09/06/2008 0400 PM

Yonkers, Westchester County.

Tropical storm, reported by public.

Wires down due to wind

Public Information Statement Statement as of 11:36 am EDT on September 7, 2008

The following are unofficial observations taken during the past 36 hours for the storm that has been affecting our region. Appreciation is extended to Highway departments... cooperative observers... spotters and media for these reports. This summary is also available on our home Page at weather.Gov/NYC

storm total rainfall

Location storm total time/date comments rainfall of                    (inches) measurement

Connecticut

... Fairfield County...   New Canaan 6.45 1030 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Danbury 6.22 1100 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Danbury 5.95 1130 PM 9/6 public Wilton 5.52 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Monroe 5.50 1230 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Brookfield 5.43 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Danbury 5.22 100 am 9/7 ASOS Stamford 3.62 100 am 9/7 afws Bridgeport 2.90 1152 PM 9/6 ASOS

... Middlesex County...   Clinton 3.86 100 am 9/7 public

... New Haven County...   Oxford/Waterbury 4.32 100 am 9/7 ASOS Meriden 3.89 100 am 9/7 ASOS New Haven/Tweed 3.31 100 am 9/7 ASOS

... New London County...   Lisbon 3.97 1139 am 9/6 Skywarn spotter Norwich 3.45 640 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Norwich 3.20 100 am 9/7 afws Old Lyme 3.17 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Groton/New London 2.76 100 am 9/7 ASOS

New Jersey

... Bergen County...   River Edge 5.50 800 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Ramsey 4.84 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Ridgewood 4.72 1100 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Garfield 4.71 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Oakland 4.49 800 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Lodi 4.39 100 am 9/7 afws Oakland 4.30 100 am 9/7 afws Woodcliff Lake 4.20 100 am 9/7 afws Park Ridge 4.17 100 am 9/7 afws Teterboro 4.10 945 PM 9/6 ASOS Tenafly 4.04 100 am 9/7 public Rivervale 4.00 100 am 9/7 public Bergenfield 3.80 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter North Arlington 3.58 800 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Fort Lee 2.97 800 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Ridgewood 2.52 100 am 9/7 afws

... Essex County...   canoe brook 4.50 100 am 9/7 afws Verona 4.45 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Essex Fells 4.21 100 am 9/7 afws West Orange 4.10 1030 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Caldwell 3.92 100 am 9/7 ASOS Newark 3.75 850 PM 9/6 ASOS

... Hudson County...   Harrison 4.10 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Jersey City 3.11 800 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter North Bergen 3.00 800 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Secaucus 2.83 800 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Bayonne 2.73 800 PM 9/6

... Passaic County...   West Paterson 5.32 100 am 9/7 afws West Milford 4.78 1010 PM 9/6 public Ringwood 4.75 1000 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Ringwood 4.75 100 am 9/7 afws Hawthorne 4.28 1100 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Wayne 4.25 800 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter West Milford 4.21 100 am 9/7 afws Greenwood Lake 3.94 100 am 9/7 afws Wayne 3.85 100 am 9/7 afws Little Falls 2.79 100 am 9/7 afws

... Union County...   Elizabeth 3.75 1000 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Springfield 3.25 820 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter

New York

... Kings County...   Sheepshead Bay 3.00 1000 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Brooklyn 2.90 900 PM 9/6 okx mesonet

... Nassau County...   Muttontown 3.93 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Lynbrook 3.35 710 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Lido Beach 3.00 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter East Meadow 2.57 1100 am 9/6 Skywarn spotter Malverne 2.40 1000 PM 9/7 Skywarn spotter Oceanside 2.51 100 am 9/7 co-op

... New York County...   NYC/Central Park 3.54 100 am 9/7 ASOS

... Orange County...   Sterling Forest 4.13 100 am 9/7 afws New Windsor 4.05 930 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Middletown 3.10 903 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Newburgh 2.86 1150 am 9/6 Skywarn spotter New Windsor 2.20 1000 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Westtown 2.14 1030 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Montgomery 1.80 100 am 9/7 ASOS Port Jervis 1.66 1001 PM 9/6

... Putnam County...   Carmel 4.60 800 am 9/7 co-op

... Queens County...   NYC/La Guardia 3.29 1140 PM 9/7 ASOS NYC/JFK Arpt 2.89 1140 PM 9/6 ASOS

... Richmond County...   Great Kills 4.78 936 am 9/7 public

... Rockland County...   New City 5.92 900 PM 9/6 okx mesonet Tappan 3.50 645 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter

... Suffolk County...   Greenlawn 4.26 1155 am 9/6 Skywarn spotter North Babylon 3.96 800 am 9/7 public Orient 3.87 300 am 9/7 public Centerport 3.34 100 am 9/7 co-op Farmingdale 3.12 100 am 9/7 ASOS Upton 3.09 100 am 9/7 NWS office Bridgehampton 3.06 800 am 9/7 co-op Mattituck 3.04 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Lindenhurst 2.75 1100 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter Montauk 2.68 100 am 9/7 ASOS Islip 2.48 100 am 9/7 ASOS Shirley 2.48 100 am 9/7 ASOS Westhampton Beach 2.39 100 am 9/7 ASOS

... Westchester County...   White Plains 4.42 1018 PM 9/6 ASOS Yorktown Heights 3.81 100 am 9/7 Skywarn spotter Rye 3.32 1000 PM 9/6 Skywarn spotter

peak wind gust

Location peak wind time/date comments gust of                       (mph) measurement

Connecticut

... Fairfield County...   Bridgeport 38 1152 PM 9/6 ASOS

... New London County...   Niantic 41 946 PM 9/6 okx mesonet North Stonington 38 850 PM 9/6 okx mesonet Norwich 37 904 PM 9/6 okx mesonet

New Jersey

... Bergen County...   Palisades Park 38 1002 PM 9/6 okx mesonet Teterboro 38 945 PM 9/6 ASOS

... Essex County...   Newark 45 850 PM 9/6 ASOS Maplewood 35 841 PM 9/6 okx mesonet Caldwell 30 850 PM 9/6 ASOS

... Union County...   Union 41 953 PM 9/6 okx mesonet Springfield 37 816 PM 9/6 okx mesonet

New York

... Bronx County...   Bronx 39 1034 PM 9/6 okx mesonet

... Kings County...   Brooklyn 45 1000 PM 9/6 okx mesonet

... New York County...   New York 44 948 PM 9/6 okx mesonet at ps 124 Central Park 29 1002 PM 9/6 ASOS

... Queens County...   Jamaica 47 412 PM 9/6 okx mesonet Flushing 46 1056 PM 9/6 okx mesonet NYC/La Guardia 44 318 PM 3/20 ASOS NYC/La Guardia 44 540 PM 9/6 ASOS Corona 43 1102 PM 9/6 okx mesonet NYC/JFK Arpt 41 1140 PM 9/6 ASOS Astoria 38 921 PM 9/6 okx mesonet

... Richmond County...   Staten Island 37 858 PM 9/6 okx mesonet

... Suffolk County...   Fire Island 38 746 PM 9/6 okx mesonet Islip 38 838 PM 9/6 ASOS Selden 38 809 PM 9/6 okx mesonet Brentwood 37 554 PM 9/6 okx mesonet Farmingdale 32 114 am 9/7 ASOS

... Westchester County...   White Plains 37 1018 PM 9/6 ASOS

– Cyclone biskit  17:36, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Death toll
I'll repeat here what I posted on Talk:2008 Atlantic hurricane season. I thought the 500+ number was proven to be a gross overestimate several days ago. I put in the latest totals I can find onto the season page with sources forthcoming, but there seems to be a lot of confusion on how many people Hanna has actually killed, and I'm sure Ike won't help any. bob rulz (talk) 06:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that the article has been subjected to vandalism, it says 53,800 people have died, I'm changing this quickly. (Hurricaneguy (talk) 20:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC))


 * It's already fixed.&mdash;Elipongo (Talk contribs) 20:13, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

The article and the main 2008 season page all still have the death toll at 535. Only one of the links backs up this total. There was a time when the death toll was reported to be that high but I remember just hours later they were reporting it as an exaggeration. The media certainly isn't helping with this since they keep reporting that hundreds of people have died between the 4 storms but are refusing to identify which storm has killed how many people. This confusion is irritating but we need to find a recent news article that says that the death toll specifically from Hanna is that high. bob rulz (talk) 06:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Images?
I've added an image that I took on the western fringe of the storm. Does anyone have any from areas more directly hit by the storm?  young  american (wtf?) 14:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I have incorporated your picture into the body of the article. Unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise we tend to avoid "Gallery" sections. Thanks for the contribution though—it makes a great illustration.  Plasticup  T / C  02:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Good work. Any place I tried to put it made it look sort of wedged in. Anyway, pics from folks in the Carolinas and the NYC metro area would be great add if anyone has some.  young  american  (wtf?) 03:27, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Deaths
495 deaths were not confirmed in Gonaives, Haiti, from TS Hanna. That was based on an incorrect report by Reuters. Latest reports from the Haitian government have 172 deaths in the entire country. Even the citation for the higher death count in this entry now has a line that reads:

''More than 160 people have been confirmed dead in Haiti. Officials said a report of a higher death toll was based on an unconfirmed estimate.''

The toll should be corrected in the text and text box.
 * But the entire toll hasn't been calculated yet. Weatherlover819 (talk) 12:28, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The entire toll may never be. In any case no reputable source has accurately reported the toll listed; by your logic, might as well note that 300 million people were killed, just in case the calculations get that high.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.4.161.20 (talk) 06:00, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

British Isles
I heard a lot of warnings about the remnants of Hanna battering the UK, but I haven't seen anything in the news. Any reports?  Serendi pod ous  11:15, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hanna had a significant impact in Canada rainfall-wise. OPC tracked the extratropical low just west of Great Britain on September 10, before arcing the system up to Iceland and dissipating it late on the 12th.  I did a google search, checked the UKMET and BBC websites, and found no references except a forecast for rain for the 10th made on the 8th. Thegreatdr (talk) 14:51, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Retirement
Hurricane Hanna killed over 500 people in Haiti; it is likely that this name will be retired after this year. Should it be moved to "Hurricane Hanna" instead? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.163.233 (talk) 22:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No. Sadly, many storms cause many fatalities in Haiti, and as Hanna was not catastrophic, we should wait for its retirement before moving to the main article. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  22:44, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Especially given the number of horrible storms in Haiti this year, retirement of Hanna seems unlikely. It may happen, but it certainly isn't an obvious case like Ike or Gustav.  Plasticup  T / C  22:49, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

It could happen. Hurricane Noel in 2007, for example, caused 169 deaths and 580 million dollars in damage (2007 USD), a lower death toll than Hanna, but that storm has it's name retired, primarily because of it's death toll in Haiti, and we certainly could include Hanna. Although the damage and deaths from Noel were not as high as other hurricanes, like 1994's Gordon, retirement back in 1994 was not strict. Today, retirement is more strict and the WMO considered 169 deaths and 580 million in damage enough to warrant retirement of Noel. Damage amounts from Hanna are unknown, but it did do extensive damage to the U.S. and Haiti. If it's damage total was greater than Noel's, then it should just be Hurricane Hanna.
 * First, please sign your talk page comments with ~ . Regarding Noel, the storm also caused extensive damage in Canada, which could have been a factor in the name's retirement. Hanna didn't cause severe damage anywhere other than Haiti. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  23:31, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

No. One, only 3 million dollars of damage or so was in Canada from Noel and two, it was not tropical at the time of it's impact there. If Noel had not been tropical by the time it hit land it wouldn't have been retired. I still think that Hanna has just as much as a chance to be retired as Gustav and Ike do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.163.233 (talk) 00:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * We agree. Hurricane Hanna might be retired. If it is, we will give it the main article.  Plasticup  T / C  00:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that it might be retired, but it is far from certain knowing the history of Haiti and retirements (and no other country has a legitimate case). I say leave it where it is since we don't move articles on borderline cases. CrazyC83 (talk) 17:35, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Otherwise, just like Hurricane Gustav, this Hurricane Hanna appears to be the most notable of the 3 known storms named Hanna in the Atlantic. The other 2 storms were of little note, but this one appears to be the most interesting of the 3. This is another of the reasons I think the article should be just "Hurricane Hanna". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.209.99 (talk) 14:33, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, this is the only storm named "Hanna" that became a hurricane. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 16:58, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * At the most, if there is some suspicion, the article should remain Hurricane Hanna (2008) with Hurricane Hanna redirecting. Being the only "Hurricane Hanna" doesn't really mean much, since the 2002 storm, while it was a tropical storm, can be confused as a hurricane by some. We learned after 2005 not to move except in obvious case - and Hanna is not one. CrazyC83 (talk) 03:24, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Landfalls
If the hurricane crossing the Chesapeake Bay does indeed merit a new landfall recording, it's not possible that the landfall was at Salisbury, Maryland. Salisbury is 15 miles off the Bay at its closest... There are numerous towns (as designated by post offices) along the coast that would be where the landfall was. If someone has the coordinates for the Maryland / Eastern Shore landfall, it shouldn't be too hard to find out what the correct town is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.124.97 (talk) 07:53, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It does, other storms have had their centers travel up the bay, not making landfall until reaching the end of it. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 11:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

(2008)?
Some people are arguing about whether or not Hanna should have the (2008) or not in the main infobox. I think it shouldn't. Who is disagreeing about this? 76.236.187.191 (talk) 21:00, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It stays as Hurricane Hanna (2008). Despite being a deadly storm, there is an uncertainty as to whether it will be retired or not. Take Hurricane Gordon (1994) for example. Killed over 1,000 in haiti and was used just two years ago. Unless Hanna is retired, it will not get the main page. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:02, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, wait, I misread. I do agree that for right above the infobox, it should say Hurricane Hanna, for the article it's Hurricane Hanna (2008) Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

It's okay. However, with other storms, like Hurricane Gordon, as you mentioned above, the (1994) should be removed, because that isn't the name of the storm. 76.236.187.191 (talk) 21:13, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed, the year identification should be left out of the infobox. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  21:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)