Talk:Hurricane Isaias

Current storm information section
May I ask why we are putting the Current Storm Information section under the Preparations header and not the Meteorological History header?ChessEric (talk) 21:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

We did that for Hurricane Hanna. You can move it if you want to. ~ Destroyeraa (talk|Contribs) 21:59, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

No need. I was just wondering. Wanted to make sure we didn't change the policy in some way.ChessEric (talk) 01:22, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is standing WPTC policy. The current storm info & advisories are included until the storm dissipates.  Light and Dark2000  🌀 (talk) 01:57, 31 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Having the current storm information under Preparations makes no sense - being entirely meteorological data it's far more appropriate under MH. think you misread here, the question here isn't whether to include, but where to include. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 15:29, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, you were right. I was thinking about the inclusion of the information as a whole, not specifically its placement. :P  Light and Dark2000  🌀 (talk) 17:12, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Contradicting Information Regarding Hurricane Records
There is contradicting information in this article about how many days this hurricane broke the 2005 hurricane's record by. Is it 6 days, as it says in the summary at the top, or is it 9 days, as it says in the Meteorological History section of the article? Or are both incorrect? Please fix this. 2600:8801:2401:A400:1DD1:229F:279C:5CBD (talk) 21:07, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
 * They are both wrong. I don't know what the original writers were referring to - tropical cyclone formation (becoming a tropical depression) or attainment of tropical storm status. If it's the latter, its actually 8 days. Even if they were referring to tropical cyclone development (which would be quite confusing, given the current wording), the dates given would still be wrong (5 days, in this case).  Light and Dark2000  🌀 (talk) 21:21, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Woman found dead after a rush of water crashed her car, found 2 days later
This was in Rincon, Puerto Rico. She was dragged by a river during the storm and was found today.

https://www.primerahora.com/noticias/policia-tribunales/notas/hallan-cuerpo-de-mujer-arrastrada-por-rio-en-rincon/

https://www.telemundopr.com/noticias/puerto-rico/hallan-cuerpo-en-quebrada-de-rincon-2/2110832/

her belongings were found yesterday

https://www.noticel.com/la-calle/20200731/encuentran-pertenencias-de-mujer-arrastrada-por-crecida-de-rio-en-rincon/

i don't know in what way to add it to the article so this is here for someone to put when they can  ~SML  •  TP  16:46, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

COVID-19
How do we include the additional complications the pandemic causes for this year's hurricanes?— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  17:47, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Measures taken are going to vary from storm to storm, but we have put a section in on Tropical cyclones in 2020 to generally talk about the overall impacts.Jason Rees (talk) 18:20, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Can anyone help work on a Draft:Hurricanes in the Bahama Archipelago?
See Draft:Hurricanes in the Bahama Archipelago. I added the ones from last year and this year, plus the Cat 5 that struck in 1932. It could use some more research, but I'm a bit busy at the moment. So, I figured I'd create a draft, in case anyone wondered about Isaias and its place in history among hurricanes in the Bahamas and Turks and Caicos. I included them together because they're so close together, and are geographically the same entity. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 21:40, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I added hurricane Andrew if that helped. I like hurricanes (talk) 01:29, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

also, are you able to upload damage in The Bahamas from hurricane Andrew. I added more storms. I like hurricanes (talk) 03:00, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

a picture from the damage in the Bahamas I like hurricanes (talk) 03:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Effects on New Jersey
This sentence : "A wind gust of 70 mph was recorded at the Ocean County Airport in Ocean County. This was not from inside the storm itself, but rather a thunderstorm from an outermost rainband. " is dubious. The reference cited does not say that it is related to Isaias. It is in fact, the storm is related to a frontal system (https://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/NationalForecastChart/map.php#).

Pierre cb (talk) 03:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Removed, found this which states the thunderstorms weren't related. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 10:42, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Tornado outbreak article?
There are at least nine tornadoes, and those all happened *today*. If anyone is familiar with tornado outbreak articles, one might be needed to focus on the tornado outbreak, so this article can be more about the storm as a whole. Isaias is soon moving into the most populous part of the country with sustained winds of up to 70 mph, and I expect there to be more power outages. I already split off the paragraph in Mid-Atlantic for tornadoes, and perhaps this is premature considering it's... yanno... happening rather than a work of historic topic that we usually write about. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 17:52, 4 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Glad we were in agreement on that one.ChessEric (talk) 17:25, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Wilmington Fires
Hello, several minutes before Isaias made landfall, fires broke out in the suburbs of Wilmington that left several houses on fire, 911 dispatch & twitter tweets confirmed that fires happened and I’m wondering if it’s okay to put the description of the fires in the impacts section or not? HurricaneExpert192000 (talk) 19:15, 4 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Already done.ChessEric (talk) 17:25, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:23, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * WATERFORD CT TREE ISAIAS.jpg

damage estimates $
I've heard the news state/speculate the damage in NC to be over 12 billion dollars - but I have not seen a print source to that effect. There should be some general estimates from flyovers of the states hit by now - anyone have anything in-print on the matter? 50.111.15.47 (talk) 14:04, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That's probably fake; Dorian only caused 5.07 billion. Wait until AON's estimate comes out. ~ Destroyeraa (talk|Contribs) 18:52, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Estimated cost of Isaias
Hi all:

I found this BNN Boomberg expected cost at 4.2 billions $US by a group of insurance modelers (Karen Clark & Co.): https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/hurricane-isaias-expected-to-cost-insurers-4-billion-in-u-s-1.1477939

I let you decide what to do with it.

Pierre cb (talk) 03:29, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks! The estimate was very helpful in determining the total cost of damage for Isaias. ~ Destroyeraa 🌀 14:54, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Storm Track
The storm track appears to be color coded and shape coded for intensity and status. The simple text says that on the page. The more descriptive text available when clicking on the image link says it more explicitly and even adds the Safir-Simpson scale, but also claims the color and shape data is described in a legend that appears in neither the main webpage nor in the linked page for the image. So there is no hope beyond guessing in understanding the color and shape coding of the graph. Thanks... 71.120.2.107 (talk)mjd —Preceding undated comment added 11:58, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Isaias Cost
Isaias is the costliest Category 1 Hurricane, when the damage isn't normalized, so I think that would be a good addition to the article. Hurricanehuron33 (talk) 13:29, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You're right... wait, what about Hurricane Stan of 2005? 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  10:18, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Scratch Hurricane Stan. You are right. Adding it in: ✅ 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  10:20, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with including this sentence as it is entirely original research. Going off the table at List of costliest Atlantic hurricanes leads to issues with verifiability since no reliable source explicitly mentions as such. The wording used is also factually incorrect since it neglects accounting for inflation, which would likely place Stan back at the top (as a rough calculation this suggests Stan's damage was $5.3 billion in 2020 USD). ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 04:07, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Split the impacts?
The storm caused more than $4 billion on the US, and inflicted heavy damage on areas (notably NE. NY, NJ, PA, and DE) that usually get tropical cyclone effects. Thoughts? Maybe an effect article for the NE? ~ Destroyeraa 🌀 00:41, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Prose is only 26 kB, which generally doesn't justify a split according to the recommendations at WP:SIZERULE. Aftermath info is lacking, however, so that could easily go up. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 15:07, 17 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm leaning towards support. The prose is small, but it will go up as KN2731 said.  SMB9 9thx   my edits  11:58, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Support. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  12:18, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose, just add the impact here. The article is on the short side now. States like NJ, NY, PA, and New England could easily be 2-3 paragraphs and it would be fine. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 14:07, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * As KN said, the impact in the States and the aftermath can easily go up. I'll try to work on it after I get finished with Barry and Beryl. Or maybe you or another user can start working on it :) ~ Destroyeraa 🌀 15:26, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm sure it'll go up, but that doesn't mean it should be split off right away. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:31, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Neutral per Hurricanehink. The article is short. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  10:41, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Support but after expanding the Aftermath section, so that it can meet the split size. After all, it was a really bad storm, the first billion-dollar hurricane or disaster (I think) of 2020. Hurricanehuron33 (talk) 12:08, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Either way, if we do end up doing the "effects of isaias in *blank*", which Impacts would we split? The Caribbean? The Mid-Atlantic? Hurricanehuron33 (talk) 12:09, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Nvm, I've started something. Hurricanehuron33 (talk) 13:02, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Abstain. --170.24.150.111 (talk) 16:38, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Partly oppose I don't like the idea of splitting all the U.S. impacts. However, splitting out the individual states of New York and North Carolina would be fine.ChessEric (talk · contribs) 04:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose – Focus on the main article first. It's only 26 kB prose at present so there's plenty of room for expansion. If it becomes too long after expansion then it can be split off, but the focus should always be on the primary article as that's the most viewed. The impact sub-articles tend to just rot away (but not always) once split off unless they're written thoroughly upon creation. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 18:13, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Really? Give me an example. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  12:26, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * effects of Hurricane Dorian in the Bahamas - I split that off too soon, thinking there would be too much impact for the main article, but the main article ended up being where the information was updated, while the sub article stayed the same as it was a few days after the storm. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 12:37, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Right, this is how much it's changed in a year. It's unlikely that Isaias will even be retired, why do we need an impacts subarticle? 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  13:24, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * that’s wrong.....it did $4.73 billion in damages. I personally don’t care. HurricaneTracker495 (talk) 16:11, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, look at my diff above. I accept that Isaias has been retired, but I am a little mad at some really rude comments that posted to me. And now I will open an ANI case. 🐔 Chicdat  Bawk to me!  12:11, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It wasn't retired, but it likely will be in April . --HurricaneTracker495 (talk) 01:31, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I guess it will. Anyway, are we splitting the main article or not? Consensus seems to be against it. Pinging the usual myriad of helpful, experienced WPTC editors:, , , . 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  11:12, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Based on the consensus, we should not split the main article.  SMB9 9thx   my edits  11:26, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I will close it. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  11:45, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Split the impacts (2.0)
The last time it failed because the article wasn't expanded, but now that it is 109 kB, I am reproposing. Previous discussion is below.


 * Oppose Again, prose size is only 26K. The impacts subarticles, as Cyclonebiskit said in the above discussion, will just rot away. The impacts practically can't be split, the article is so short. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  11:51, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Split the impacts?
The storm caused more than $4 billion on the US, and inflicted heavy damage on areas (notably NE. NY, NJ, PA, and DE) that usually get tropical cyclone effects. Thoughts? Maybe an effect article for the NE? ~ Destroyeraa 🌀 00:41, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Prose is only 26 kB, which generally doesn't justify a split according to the recommendations at WP:SIZERULE. Aftermath info is lacking, however, so that could easily go up. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 15:07, 17 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm leaning towards support. The prose is small, but it will go up as KN2731 said.  SMB9 9thx   my edits  11:58, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Support. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  12:18, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose, just add the impact here. The article is on the short side now. States like NJ, NY, PA, and New England could easily be 2-3 paragraphs and it would be fine. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 14:07, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * As KN said, the impact in the States and the aftermath can easily go up. I'll try to work on it after I get finished with Barry and Beryl. Or maybe you or another user can start working on it :) ~ Destroyeraa 🌀 15:26, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm sure it'll go up, but that doesn't mean it should be split off right away. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:31, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Neutral per Hurricanehink. The article is short. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  10:41, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Support but after expanding the Aftermath section, so that it can meet the split size. After all, it was a really bad storm, the first billion-dollar hurricane or disaster (I think) of 2020. Hurricanehuron33 (talk) 12:08, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Either way, if we do end up doing the "effects of isaias in *blank*", which Impacts would we split? The Caribbean? The Mid-Atlantic? Hurricanehuron33 (talk) 12:09, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Nvm, I've started something. Hurricanehuron33 (talk) 13:02, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Abstain. --170.24.150.111 (talk) 16:38, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Partly oppose I don't like the idea of splitting all the U.S. impacts. However, splitting out the individual states of New York and North Carolina would be fine.ChessEric (talk · contribs) 04:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose – Focus on the main article first. It's only 26 kB prose at present so there's plenty of room for expansion. If it becomes too long after expansion then it can be split off, but the focus should always be on the primary article as that's the most viewed. The impact sub-articles tend to just rot away (but not always) once split off unless they're written thoroughly upon creation. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 18:13, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Really? Give me an example. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  12:26, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * effects of Hurricane Dorian in the Bahamas - I split that off too soon, thinking there would be too much impact for the main article, but the main article ended up being where the information was updated, while the sub article stayed the same as it was a few days after the storm. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 12:37, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Right, this is how much it's changed in a year. It's unlikely that Isaias will even be retired, why do we need an impacts subarticle? 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  13:24, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * that’s wrong.....it did $4.73 billion in damages. I personally don’t care. HurricaneTracker495 (talk) 16:11, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, look at my diff above. I accept that Isaias has been retired, but I am a little mad at some really rude comments that posted to me. And now I will open an ANI case. 🐔 Chicdat  Bawk to me!  12:11, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It wasn't retired, but it likely will be in April . --HurricaneTracker495 (talk) 01:31, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I guess it will. Anyway, are we splitting the main article or not? Consensus seems to be against it. Pinging the usual myriad of helpful, experienced WPTC editors:, , , . 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  11:12, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Based on the consensus, we should not split the main article.  SMB9 9thx   my edits  11:26, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I will close it. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  11:45, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

But now, I am reproposing. Article expansion occured. Maybe not for the US as a whole, but certain states like North Carolina, which got hit hard. Damage estimates are hard to find, but 4 people died. I will find a source soon. --HurricaneTracker495 (talk) 14:31, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Bad image
The image is so strecthed out, it makes the precursor more readable then the storm. I suggest cutting most of the renmant wave off, especially as the wave is not near as important as the storm. --Hurricane Tracker 495 14:13, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Unless I’m mistaken which image it is. ~ Destroyer 🌀🌀 17:03, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * . ~ Destroyer 🌀🌀 19:37, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

"Rare"
Can ya'll settle whether to called this a "rare" outbreak here and not in edit summaries. Please don't edit war. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:36, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Proposing merger of tornado outbreak
The main article is only about 5,100 words, and the tornado article is 2977 words, so it could be merged in its entirety, and Isaias's article still wouldn't be too long. Seeing as it's been four years, I don't think there is going to be a significant amount of new information for this article, so merging the tornado outbreak article would improve this article (currently rated C-class). ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 23:48, 5 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose As one of the editors that created the article, I believe that it should stay for the information it has, especially since SPC outlooks aren't covered in tropical cyclone articles. The tornado tables are much too long to put in the article, and they haven't been modernized as well. There are also too many tornadoes to just decide to add link directing viewers to the tornado list page months. Chess  Eric  05:01, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the SPC information could be included. That's not some set policy, either, as I included the SPC outlook for Hurricane Hilary's article. Also, I don't think the tables would be too long, as I said the Isaias article is only 5,100 words, well below where size restraints become an issue. Also, the tornadoes were a significant factor in the impacts, and some of them are already mentioned. Plus, the tornado tables could always be collapsable. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 20:20, 6 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose Meets notability requirement for tornado outbreak; a merge might bloat the article. 69.118.235.3 (talk) 23:47, 11 May 2024 (UTC) Vote by sockpuppet stricken.  Chris Wx  🌀 ( talk  -  contribs ) 00:05, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support – The tornado information could easily be merged into this article without making it overly large or giving too much weight to the tornadoes over the primary storm impact. Drdpw (talk) 23:05, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Tornado outbreak article meets notability for an outbreak article. I can see why it wouldn't be a concern, but to me from a length perspective, they make sense to keep separated. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:17, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That's a support vote because I was too stupid to clarify that. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:18, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Wouldn’t it be an oppose, since a support means you want the two articles together, and an oppose means you want them separate? Downerr2937 (talk) 15:29, 11 July 2024 (UTC)