Talk:Hurricane Ivan/Archive 1

Cited

 * Returns a 404 error. --Goobergunch|? 05:20, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

KPH?
"Who came up with the name "kph"? ;-)"

Well I'm not too familiar with the metric system, but KPH is an appropriate way to say "kilometers per hour" much like MPH is an appropriate way to say "miles per hour".


 * Maybe in USA. In Europe nobody uses "KPH". Since the common way is "mph" in countries that use miles and "km/h" in countries that use kilometers I believe it would be best to say "135mph (215km/h)".

Guess its all a matter of perspective. :) Tom 07:51, Sep 6, 2004 (UTC)


 * The tradition, at least on the hurricane pages, has been to use "mi/h" and "km/h". But yeah, I'm a fan of kph too. :) --Golbez 20:57, Sep 6, 2004 (UTC)


 * "/h" is more "professional". I don't know what that means, I just read it somewhere. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 21:37, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

"professional" it what sense? I was taught in my first physics class to never use the "/"! ;-) It should be $$kms^{-1}$$. The "right way" is always different than you think, right? So, I "vote" for "non-professional" if it's not a clear physics topic. Awolf002 02:01, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * The term 'kph' is an english language abbreviation. The term 'km/h' is the official, language independent symbol form. SI defines symbols at the official website (http://www1.bipm.org/en/si/ ). An analogy is the use of 'Hg' as the language independent symbol for mercury. If we all started using abbreviations instead of symbols, the international advantages of the metric system decrease. For example French and Italian abbreviations for km/h are: k.a.h and c.a.o. Incidentally, the speedometers of American cars use the form 'km/h'.


 * There is nothing forbidden about the '/' character. It even used in the official definition of the metre. Bobblewik (talk) 23:39, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Infobox layout
I think the layout of the Hurricane Frances infobox on the right side of the screen is professional and organized. If no one objects, I'll match this page with that one.

As of right now, Ivan's infobox is kind of unproportional. Besides, shouldn't the track of a current storm go near the top?


 * I think the one here is better, although I'd rather have no infobox whatsoever. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 23:16, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I rather enjoy the infobox. It is a good quick reference without having to search through the article. Tom 23:32, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)

Grenada picture
Is the Grenada picture a copyvio? It seems to fit into the picture set owned by AP. Anybody know for sure? Awolf002 18:33, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * It might fall under fair use; the "LOOTERS WILL BE SHOT" pic in Hurricane Frances is AP too, I think. --Golbez 20:04, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)


 * Ugh. "Fair use" is not a magic phrase that allows for the use of any images you want. I think this and the "Looters" pic should both be deleted. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 01:04, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

mi/h or mph
Someone has again taken it upon themselves to change mi/h to mph (but I guess km/h is okay?) We need a standard on this, I guess. --Golbez 00:32, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)


 * It's the same person, who seems to consider all changes minor. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 00:59, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

For what it's worth: I'm using the WeatherBug on my PC and it shows MPH and KPH when looking at wind speeds. So, let's use those as "mph" and "kph", I'd say. Awolf002 01:54, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * "KPH" seems to get more complaints that "MPH". Or so it seems to me, at least. *shrug* Maybe the pump should be asked. --Golbez 02:04, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)

Here is what the NHC sends out in its advisories (I guess most people here have seen this): '''IVAN IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST NEAR 13 MPH...20 KM/HR. THIS MOTION IS EXPECTED TO BRING THE CENTER OF IVAN TO NEAR JAMAICA TONIGHT.''' &mdash; Awolf002 13:46, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * A more authoritative source than Weatherbug. ;) Maybe we should use that. Or maybe we should be bold and use our own damn units! Let's start recording this bad boy in cubits. ;) --Golbez 15:14, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)

Right! I say go with NHC. I will post an item at the Village pump and we can see what the feedback looks like. Awolf002 15:35, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Nearly all units for tropical cyclone articles are in mph and km/h. These may seem a bit inconsistent, but...well...I don't really care except that it would be a huge pain to change them all. — jdorje (talk) 06:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * BTW, any discussion of units should be done or at least mentioned on the wikiproject talk page. — jdorje (talk) 07:08, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Moving article
Considering the lackluster performances of the previous Ivans, I think it's time we moved this one to Hurricane Ivan. Unfortunately, there's a page in the way. Are any of you admins, or should we take this to the pump? --Golbez 15:37, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)


 * I am. I'll take care of it once I've finished some housekeeping elsewhere. Might be 5pm EDT by then, but probably not. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 18:32, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Done. Going to clean up some links to the "(2004)" redirect now. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 19:20, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Pun
"though the wobble in direction has thus far kept the eye just south of the eyeland."

Eyeland. Punny. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 06:21, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * But, it was a genuine typo. :) --Golbez 17:14, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)

No Advisory
I do not like the new "Advisory" sction at all!! I'm going to remove it, since I do not believe it has a place in an encyclopedic article. We've got links to the NHC for this!! Awolf002 15:01, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Quite agreed. The only reason for "current status" at all is because there's really no other way to do it until after the fact. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 15:43, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Sixth Lowest Pressure, not sixth strongest in terms of winds
At least thats what the NWS says. Ivan is sixth in terms of minimum central pressure, 912 mb, not in terms of winds (although it seems like it would be high on the list). Tom 00:39, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)


 * I thought 165 seemed low for a record breaker, but then again, there aren't many Cat 5s, let alone 165+ ones. But that's probably more accurate. --Golbez 00:50, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)


 * Not that 165 should be treated lightly either. And btw: thanks for cleaning up my writing in the article.  I was having problems figuring out how to word it best. :) Tom 02:13, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)

The current record for wind speed is 190 mph, from both Hurricane Camille and Hurricane Allen. I've got to get around to writing a program to parse and display the NHC's best track file so I can pull up the statistics on such things myself. They seem to keep coming up. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 04:08, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ugh
Nothing against you people in Florida, but I'm not liking how Ivan's failing to turn. Might have to bug out Tuesdayish if it doesn't. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 05:44, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

New Orleans?
Lots of references to Florida. What happens if Ivan hits Alabama, Mississippi, or Louisana? I understand that a hurrican hitting New Orleans is particularly bad news.


 * It gets worse for New Orleans. "If I did not have a previous forecast to maintain some continuity with...I would have shifted the track even further to the left." That's Forecaster Lawrence commenting in the 5am discussion. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 14:34, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

If Ivan keeps on veering "left" of the track, New Orleans is in for a rude awaking. This would be real bad. Awolf002 14:38, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * When was the last time N'arlins got hit by a hurricane? Neglecting the fact that it's never been hit by a cat 5. --Golbez 16:41, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)

Pulling up statistics compiled by someone else, the last hurricane to directly strike the city was minimal hurricane Bob in 1979 (not to be confused with 1991's Hurricane Bob). To get to a major hurricane, you have to go back to 1965's Betsy, aka the "billion dollar hurricane". And that was back when a dollar was worth something. The city dodged a couple of bullets later, with Camille missing to the east and Andrew to the west. There's been a several direct hits from tropical storms, but no other hurricanes since. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 16:55, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Amusing quote from the New Orleans NWS office's 3am Area Forecast Discussion: "...some interesting things beginning to occur in the forecast."


 * The main message I'm getting out of the local forecast discussions is that the New Orleans forecasters aren't buying the NHC's "it's going to turn". They seem to be quite worried that it won't. The forecasters in Lake Charles seem to be taking a "wait and see" stance as well. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 16:55, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * The spaghetti map (http://www.boatus.com/hurricanes/hurricane_spaghetti2.asp ) and Weather Underground's map (http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tracking/at200409_model.html ) both have tracks going through N'arlins, ESPECIALLY the second one. Kinda scary. I was just commenting to a coworker, "If New Orleans gets hit by one category 5 hurricane, there will never be a second." While I'm editing this, I'll point out how many of the spaghetti lines go through Charlotte. :/ --Golbez 17:58, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)

The last couple of satellite pictures from NHC show that it finally turns more to the north. Just in time to not go to the western parts of the gulf. This one is going to worry a lot of people! Awolf002 17:37, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * But my worry level is decreasing, so screw them :) -- Cyrius|&#9998; 21:52, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Looking at radar images from Mobile, AL it's going to be a real close one for NO. Awolf002 17:51, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Well I know that it's now 2005 but I guess Katrina did the work that Ivan was too scared to even think about doing. New Orleans didn't get hit by Ivan but who would guess that another hurricane next year would hurt NO so bad? -- User:guest (|67.70.205.158} 02:23, 27 Nov 2005

Another record
This afternoon, Ivan's going to join the three way tie for third place on "Hurricanes that have spent the most time at Category 5". I don't see any reason to think it won't jump ahead of them either, although I doubt it'll catch up to the second place holder, 1980's Hurricane "Dog", with 2.5 days at Cat 5. Allen's 3 days seems right out. I'm hoping I'm not wrong about that. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 17:33, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC) --68.217.0.100 23:12, 5 October 2005 (UTC)fgdhejdytu

yo you guys talking bout hurricanes hitting new orleans well you need to update cuz Katrina sure hit them

Intensity fluctuations
While all tropical cyclones fluctuate in intensity, major hurricanes do so much more often. This is largely due to eyewall replacement cycles, a process that doesn't occur in weaker storms. Just so everyone knows why the NHC keeps mentioning it and it keeps popping up in the article. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 22:06, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Casualties

 * "... Among the dead were 20 Jamaicans, a pregnant woman killed in Tobago, and a 75-year old woman who drowned in Barbados. There were also four deaths in the Dominican Republic, and four in Venezuela.
 * On September 11-12, Ivan passed over Jamaica, causing significant wind and flood damage. Early reports suggested at least 14 people had been killed. ..."
 * On September 11-12, Ivan passed over Jamaica, causing significant wind and flood damage. Early reports suggested at least 14 people had been killed. ..."


 * Were the "20 Jamaicans" in Grenada, giving a total of 34+, or are they the same people as the "at least 14 Jamaicans" in Jamaica?
 * &mdash;wwoods 15:13, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * First of all, I don't think bold is really necessary for an entire comment. Second of all, I've held off from updating the casualty information because it was changing so rapidly. Now would probably be a good time to start sorting it all out. --Golbez 16:37, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

al.com and nola.com
Do we really need links to regional news sites? They are only relevant to a hurricane in a timely fashion, unlike all the other links we have that are dedicated to hurricanes, or Ivan in specific. I don't think we should have these, but I wanted to confer first. --Golbez 19:44, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

I think so. At least until it is inland. This encyclopedia is not a link farm, but I think those two links are relevant to this subject at this time. These areas are going to be directly impacted by this event. Remove them Saturday, once the storm has made it past those areas, if there will be a problem with it. But the information there is relevant now.--Xj14y 20:09, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I dunno, I get the feeling that people living in those areas on the Internet probably already know their local news sources. --Golbez 20:32, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, the article is not for just the people in the thick of it. There are interested observers from everywhere who may not be familiar with the area, it's geography and culture. All of which will be impacted. If it's a matter of not having news updates, then why are we writing this article now? Shouldn't we wait for Sunday so it is no longer "news"?    --Xj14y 20:37, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Disclaimer
Should there be a better diclaimer at the top of this page? Something along the lines of "Don't base life-or-death decisions based on information from this page. This material may not be updated in a timely manner, and you should monitor local media and authorities for official news and instructions if you are in the area affected by this event." --Xj14y 20:18, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Don't see why. We offer more than enough links to up-to-date news sources. This is an encyclopedia; I don't base my decisions on the World Book. :) --Golbez 20:34, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)


 * But the fact is that is it also on the internet, which people put a little bit of faith in, even if it is open source and editable by all. Just because it looks like print. I'd hate for someone to think it will miss them, then take a direct hit because they are looking at an 8 hour old map... It's common sense, but you never know with some people. --Xj14y 20:41, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Insensitive answer: Then Darwin will be happy. :P I mean, the same argument could be given with newspapers - they could be reading a newspaper from yesterday with obviously out of date info, but papers don't give disclaimers. And that really is print.
 * Sensitive answer: ... nah, don't really got one. The number of people in the hurricane zone who only read 2004 Atlantic hurricane season and no other pages, especially no news pages, is incredibly small. I don't think a disclaimer is necessary, and even then, we give the dates and times that information was last updated. Even on the map - "As of 11pm" etc. So if they want to get more up to date info, there's a plethora of links at the bottom. And now I have been forced to use the word plethora. I hope you're happy. ;) --Golbez 21:24, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

Moved from Village Pump
Is Wikipedia set up to deal with Ivan the Terrible (now a Cat 5 blow)? I know we'd all hate to see all our work blown away (of course we're also all concerned about everyone down there too). Anyone know? &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 15:00, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)


 * After Charley and Frances, do you really think a hurricane will destroy Wikipedia? Maybe Tampa's other Web servers are more prepared than Wikipedia's?  [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 19:33, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)


 * Charley missed Tampa completely and Frances was a tropical storm by the time it hit us. If Ivan hits it'll be a lot worse than either.  But that's a big if.  At this point there's something like a 300 mile margin of error on each side of us.


 * Either way the server is housed in a colocation facility which in theory should be able to withstand Ivan. Better safe than sorry, of course.  We should have some sort of offsite backup, even if it's just getting someone to download the backup files.  I'd volunteer, but I live in Tampa :). anthony (see warning) 01:22, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Backups and Contingency plans are being made. Angela. 02:32, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)


 * In case anyone hasn't been watching, Ivan is now about 50/50 to hit the Florida panhandle and is very unlikely to hit Tampa. anthony (see warning) 14:11, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well, I suppose one could ask Google or check the Internet Archive... --AllyUnion 00:03, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

"Unprecedented"
...and reached "unprecedented" intensity at low latitudes...

Forgive me if I've missed something, but why is "unprecedented" in quotes? If it's a quote, what's the source? If it's unsourced, how do we know it's unprecendented? I certainly haven't been following the storm as much as the rest of you, but seeing that in the first paragraph of the article stands out. Beginning 22:35, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)


 * Those of us in the know know .. well .. think .. that it was from an NOAA/NHC discussion or advisory. Those quotes have irked me for a while, but since I knew .. well.. thought I knew where it was from, I didn't touch them. But yeah, that needs to be dealt with. --Golbez 22:40, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)


 * Bring it up again when things have calmed down, I'll go dig up the source. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 14:07, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Gulf Power
Gulf Power representatives have told my friends as well as my family that if power is knocked down, it will not be restored for at least two weeks. I know first-hand accounts are not the best citations...but I figured someone needed to know, if it should find its way into the article. (This is for Northwest Florida) Mike H 06:04, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)


 * Sounds about right to me from previous experience with lesser storms. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 14:09, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Lake Pontchartrain
Can the news about overflowing Lake Pontchartrain be backed up with a reliable source? I do not find any mention of it in the news. Awolf002 13:10, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * There are reports that a few low-lying areas got flooded by decent-sized waves coming off the lake. Nothing about flooding New Orleans. I removed the statement because it's not the sort of thing the press would pass over. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 14:04, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Movie connections
I remember watching Sean Connery's film, The Avengers, How does The Avengers differ from those three hurricanes: Ivan, Frances and Charley?


 * What do you mean? --Golbez 16:43, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

The was a scene where Sir August de Wynter (Connery) send a hurricane (or tornado?) to London and the one or two bridges were destroyed.

Sunshine Skyway Bridge
Does anyone know if this bridge is accessible?


 * Is that in Destin? It may be. I don't know. Mike H 23:39, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)


 * Given that the Sunshine Skyway Bridge is in St. Petersburg, there should be no Ivan-related accessibility concerns. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 23:58, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Landfall Animation
I'm a Wiki n00b, so perhaps someone may like to post this to the article: http://www.wunderground.com.nyud.net:8090/hurricane/ivan/ivan_zoom_radar.gif


 * Wunderground claims copyright on their materials. So don't do it. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 01:44, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Article popularity
User:Raul654 pointed at the month to date page view stats for en over on Talk:Main Page (it's really big, so I wouldn't load it). The actual numbers are skewed a whole bunch, but the result is somewhat surprising. Ignoring the Main Page, this is the single most popular article on the site right now.

Holy crap. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 20:44, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Go us. :D Wikipedia strikes again! Who says this isn't a news source? ;) I wonder how many of those are reporters who are using the article for background material. --Golbez 21:06, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)

Son of Ivan?
Some rain came down on Florida in the last 24 hours from the remnants of Ivan. Will this "storm" be renamed (to Ivan?) if it reforms to something tropical? Awolf002 15:14, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * The consensus on the local channels (by this I mean Tom Terry, he's the best meteoroligist we have) is that it'll be TD/S/H Ivan again. I think it's up to the NHC to decide however. Zerbey 16:29, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Question of the hour. Does it jump to Matthew, or do they make it Ivan? I guess since it's still technically T.D. Ivan, it would remain Ivan... --Golbez 16:18, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC)


 * Its not technically T.D. Ivan. T.D. Ivan was declared extratropical at 5AM EDT Saturday September 18 2004.  From the Hydrometeorological Prediction Center:  THE REMNANT LOW THAT WAS ONCE PART OF IVAN TRAVELS SLOWLY WESTWARD OVER SOUTHERN FLORIDA PRODUCING SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS OVER THE AREA THROUGH LATE TUESDAY NIGHT.  LOW LEVEL ONSHORE FLOW HELPS TO KEEP SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS OVER THE FLORIDA PENINSULA AFTER THE LOW PASSES AND ALONG PORTIONS OF THE WESTERN GULF COAST.  It must be noted that this low was PART of Ivan, the rest of it went northeastward.  Since this low is mostly a new low-level circulation, TPC/NHC will likely name it Matthew, not Ivan.  A conference call between HPC and NHC Monday September 20 2004 discussed whether to name the storm Ivan or Matthew.  No decision was reached, though it appeared NHC was leaning towards Matthew. --Famartin 17:19, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC)


 * Just curious, where did you hear about the conference call, or are you an insider? --Golbez 17:50, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC)


 * I have my sources ;-) --Famartin 01:19, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)


 * I hope they give it the next available name. This article's already big enough as it is without chronicling another week or two of its activity. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 23:09, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, I have bad news... TPC has decided the Gulf low IS indeed Ivan after all...   From TPC:  SATELLITE IMAGES AND SURFACE DATA INDICATE THAT THE AREA OF LOW PRESSURE IN THE NORTH CENTRAL GULF OF MEXICO...WHICH HAS BEEN DETERMINED BY THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER TO BE THE REMNANT OF IVAN...MAY BE REDEVELOPING INTO A TROPICAL CYCLONE. SQUALLS WITH GUSTS NEAR TROPICAL STORM FORCE ARE ALREADY OCCURRING NEAR THE LOUISIANA COAST. IF A RECONNAISSANCE PLANE... CURRENTLY APPROACHING THE SYSTEM...DETERMINES THAT A CYCLONE HAS REFORMED...ADVISORIES ON IVAN WILL BE REINITIATED. --Famartin 22:29, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)


 * ~This is the storm that never ends, it goes on and on my friends~ And where it is now, it's concievable that it could make landfall in the same place. --Golbez 23:05, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * From the NHC's latest discussion: AFTER CONSIDERABLE AND SOMETIMES ANIMATED IN-HOUSE DISCUSSION OF THE DEMISE OF IVAN...IN THE MIDST OF A LOW-PRESSURE AND SURFACE FRONTAL SYSTEM OVER THE EASTERN UNITED STATES...THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER HAS DECIDED TO CALL THE TROPICAL CYCLONE NOW OVER THE GULF OF MEXICOTROPICAL DEPRESSION IVAN. WHILE DEBATE WILL SURELY CONTINUE HERE AND ELSEWHERE...THIS DECISION WAS BASED PRIMARILY ON THE REASONABLE CONTINUITY OBSERVED IN THE ANALYSIS OF THE SURFACE AND LOW-LEVEL CIRCULATION. --Goobergunch 23:39, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Do you get the impression that Somebody has it in for Disneyworld this year, and having missed once with Ivan, has circled around to have another go?
 * &mdash;wwoods 23:48, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Missed with Ivan, but hit with Charley and Frances. :) And either way, Ivan's heading for Texas... --Golbez 23:56, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)

This is incredibly stupid. Ivan missess me by five hundred miles, so it loops back around to come get me. Ugh, I'm just not going to bother leaving the house Friday. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 00:37, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * You've obviously caught Ivan's attention with your loyal devotion to his wiki article. He couldn't stop by on his first trip so he had to come back around. ;) Tom 00:41, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)

Is this accurate?
In the article, it says: "Nevertheless, on the morning of September 21, its remnants combined with a low-pressure system to pelt Cape Breton Island with hurricane-force winds, flooding some roads, felling trees, and leaving thousands without power." Is this an accurate statement, considering that the remnants of Ivan are actually in the Gulf of Mexico? Tom 00:45, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)


 * This would be the other 2/3rds of Ivan... the part that should, IMHO, have actually been CALLED Ivan, leaving the little piece in the Gulf to get a new name... --Famartin 00:54, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)


 * Agreed, if only because it would keep the article short :)


 * As it is, I'm slightly worried about the forecast: "stall out over East Texas for several days before dissipating". -- Cyrius|&#9998; 07:17, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * One meteorologist compared its future path to that of Tropical Storm Allison, which stalled over the Houston area and dumped 35+ inches of rain in some spots.Tom 11:27, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)


 * Which is what I'm worried about. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 13:20, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Weasel word
This new sentence
 * Ivan is sometimes known as Ivan the Terrible by other media.

is really a collection of weasel words. Why don't you cite one of the media outlets verbatim? I think this sentence should go, if it's not improved. Awolf002 16:43, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree, it has no place. I never heard it during the season. --Golbez 18:00, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)

Pictures
We have four pictures of the damage to Florida - and NONE of the damage to the Caribbean. If we can find any - preferably of Grenada or the Caymans - then we should ditch two of the Florida ones. We really need to get some. --Golbez 18:10, May 20, 2005 (UTC)


 * Problem will be finding useable ones. Google results for "Ivan cayman" Google results for "Ivan grenada" -- tomf688 (talk) 18:30, May 20, 2005 (UTC)


 * I suppose many of these can be used under the fair use assertation for historical significance, but many of them are under Caribbean countries' copyrights. -- tomf688 (talk) 03:16, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

"Aftermath"
I've been trying to expand the article to include more aftermath info, but there doesn't seem to be much information readily available on this subject. I guess once the storm passes, the media moves on to the next story. -- tomf688 (talk) 20:04, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

first-hand account
Removed this... maybe some way to integrate bits of info into article? --Golbez 20:28, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)


 * ...Lets see, I am a fourteen-year old girl that went through Ivan I Live Nearly In The Center Of Town I live right next to Owen Robert's International Airport. Even though we were not directly hit by Ivan the hurricane was no longer a cat. 5 it was more like a six with all three oceans meeting from all three sides it was terrible roads were destroyed, The Bodden Town Grave Yard accross From The Bodden Town Police Station the bodys were floating by, The Prospect - Spots area The Apartment Development There ( The Ocean Club and Mariner's Cove) Were Completly destoryed, some of the apartments were in the middle of the road.When The Outside World Could Finally Contact us they told us they thought we were all dead that we had went off the map for like ten minutes, fortunatlly we all are still alive. And As For The Water Issue Maybe a week or two after the hurricane was when places like the hospital started getting water back and they didnt have power the were working off a generator only two rooms in the hospital had power, The Prayer Room and The E.R., People were being treated outside the hospital. After A month or so that is when the rest of George Town Started To Recieve Water As I said I live right next to the airport and it was only about 3 or 4 weeks after the hurricane we started to recieve water, even in december certain parts of the island still did not recieve power or water. As for the power issue Most Places only started recieving power in November and there was power outages reguarly. As For The phone lines we just got our phone lines hook up in January 2005 and we were the first part of the island to be tended too. We Are Now in June and things still are not the same and never will be. You dont go a day no more without hearing about Ivan. This Was Just a bref post on what happened. As we are now in hurricane season again we are all praying that we dont end up with another Ivan!.... Thank You For Reading My Post, If You Would Like To Know More About The Local Stories Or The Political Side You Can Always Contact Me On [removed email address] Or Instant Message Me. Erika D. - 2005

Revive featured article nomination?
I'd say most of the issues in the previous featured article page have been addressed, so is another one on tap? Perhaps a peer review first? -- tomf688 (talk) July 9, 2005 04:32 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Let's do peer review first though; make sure the pool is full before we dive in ;). The one thing I'd like to see is a much better description of recovery efforts, not just damage. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 00:58, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

ACE = 69.95
Should the ACE of 69.95 (* 10^4 Kt^2) be noted in the article. Where does 69.95 stand? What is the record? crandles 22:04, 22 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Supposedly Ivan is the highest-ACE storm of all time. Jdorje 23:00, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

This article will be translated into Spanish
The article is really great and in the Spanish edition is pretty mediocre, this is going for translation juan andrés 05:45, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

New Orleans
I don't think you can talk about New Orleans in the article without mentioning that the dire warnings from Ivan were actually realized the next year with Katrina. Speaking about Ivan as if it were a "dodged bullet" seems stupid, in retrospect. More like foreshadowing.

Regarding the Eye
So, wait. Ivan lost his southern eyewall? Does that mean he lost his tropical characteristics? What does that mean? You're tellin me Ivan was America's strongest coldfront at landfall? Cyclone1 18:07, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ivan didn't 'lose' anything, except a little intensity. The thing about the eyewall means that there was just a big freakin' hole in the southern half of the eyewall. Ivan was still a warm-core hurricane at landfall. You don't have to have an eye to be a tropical cyclone. Look at 98% of all the tropical storms that never reached hurricane intensity. They didn't have an eye, but they were very tropical. The article tropical cyclone will tell you more. Also see extratropical storm -- §  Hurricane  E  RIC  §Damages archive 05:04, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Death table
Does that really need to be that extravagent? All that should be listed is by country (or states for the US). More detail can go in subsections (like having a Leeward Islands section and mentioning that 1 died in Barbados and 1 in Tobago), but having a table that big really clutters things. Hurricanehink 16:21, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. It is way too much information. — jdorje (talk) 19:17, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Recovery
Info on this has to be included if this article is going to be the FA that it should be. -- §  Hurricane  E  RIC  §Damages archive 22:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

2005AHS consequences
Katrina should be mentioned in the discussion of 4th highest US damages; and presumably other 2005 storms should be to. I wonder if it would be better to not use the "Ivan was the 3rd most costly US hurricane (now 4th)" format and switch it to give the emphasis to the at-the-present status (and have the at-the-time in brackets)?--Nilfanion (talk) 23:38, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It might be better to find a way to remove parentheses completely. I'm giving the article a copyedit, so I'll try to address that as well. Tito xd (?!? - help us) 01:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Reorganization
I created a records/naming section - Irene style to try and relieve some of the stress on the Storm History. The big change which is needed here I think is to change the Impact to a by-US State breakdown and move the impact info out of the history, which will bring that section down to a sensible length.--Nilfanion (talk) 22:45, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that section is needed at all; the hydrological records section should be removed completely, IMO, and the rest can be blended in quite easily in the impact. That said, the damages should be moved from history to impact, as you say. Tito xd (?!? - help us) 22:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah and theres the ACE - that should go completely; I'm not sure about it - get the impact section sorted then remerge it back. I'm looking at this with an eye to Wilma too, that storm has exactly the same layout problems only moreso. I think a lot of the storm history should be moved - a lot of "city X suffered TS winds" is impact. There is some aftermath info too, though it is hard to see currently, the Venezuelan crop things for a start.--Nilfanion (talk) 22:53, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm working on splitting the article up into many sections - like one for each US state; once that is done we can remerge the minor ones and know we have a good format.--Nilfanion (talk) 23:19, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * On second thought, that makes the TOC very long, and it also gives the impression that the article is US-centric (which it's not). I'd say it's better if they're merged back into "United States" again. Tito xd (?!? - help us) 23:36, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Its a temporary thing - split it up then remerge; we know the right bits are in the right place. Having said that I'm not sure if the US info justifies a by state split — is that because the US didn't get that big an impact or is it indicative of a lack of information (Alabama should have more info shouldn't it?)--Nilfanion (talk) 23:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

As it stands, remerge the US impact sections but to me it looks like there is a lack of information from the non-Florida states, if significant information can be found for other states I would favor a split - and a lack of info is a concern. The preparations section is highly US-centric at the moment; thats easily fixed (the TCR). Aftermath is stubby at the moment, but again more work will fix it.--Nilfanion (talk) 08:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Having them split would emphasize what is needed. In addition, it would allow for better organization. Alabama should be the biggest section, but it currently isn't. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 14:38, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I've just drastically cut down the length of the storm history, 5 paragraphs seems reasonable. It needs copyediting however, I was a bit repetitive (Cat 5 then Cat 4 then Cat 5 then Cat 4....).--Nilfanion (talk) 20:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've also moved the intensity record back into the storms history, commented out the wave record for now, retirement into aftermath and removed the ACE references as trivia. Just the impact/aftermath to sort out now?--Nilfanion (talk) 21:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yay! The article doesn't look horrible and disorganized now. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 21:22, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Should we wait for Eric to come back, he said he had some significant info for this article? It's gone on the back burner anyway...--Nilfanion (talk) 10:05, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * He said he won't be back until after June. If anyone wants to give it a rewrite or something, you can go ahead, and Eric can just add his info when he comes back. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 13:30, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately my hard drive crashed shortly before I left so that information is now gone and it may be awhile before I could get it off. I could rewrite it. It was a section on the recovery. Wait a minute...Hink, didn't I post it on you talk page a while back, asking you to review it? -- § Hurricane E  RIC § archive 18:57, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it was on my talk, but I don't remember exactly which archive it went into, and I have to run, so I can't really look for it right now. Good to see you back, though. Tito xd (?!?) 19:01, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh. Good thing I never archive my talk page by moving it... Tito xd (?!?) 19:03, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Canada
Should the deaths from Canada be included? The storm, which was definetly part of Ivan (the old mid-level circulation), caused 2 direct deaths and 4 indirect deaths. Of course, I think that the system that went to Canada was the original Ivan, and the thing in the Gulf should have been Matthew (or Nicole, depends on if they classified the tropical storm behind Lisa). Hurricanehink ( talk ) 20:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * That is debatable. My opinion is the same as yours that the Gulf regenesis should have been TD14/Matthew and that "Ivan" went northeast (it is also a natural track, not a loop-de-loop), but it is not really classified as such by the NHC and it would create essentially a "branch" in the article. Since it is officially classified as a non-tropical remnant low, it would naturally be considered an extension of this article - but that southern loop with the detached surface remnants throws a curve. IMO, the damage and deaths there should indeed be included, but others will disagree. CrazyC83 03:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The hurricane database would be a bit different if we treated a new surface cyclogenesis based on the old-mid level low as the same name. The Allison (1989) track would move off the east coast, never to return.  Karl (1998) would be the latter part of Hermine's track.  Dennis (1999) track would end, and what struck North Carolina a week later would have been Emily.  And so on. Thegreatdr 19:22, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Category 5 record?
Was Ivan the most southerly Category 5 hurricane on record in the Atlantic (13.7 degrees north)? I can't think of any other Cat. 5s which occured that far south. If so, I think it deserves a mention in the article. Pobbie Rarr 16:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I've done it. Feel free to improve the Records section. :) Pobbie Rarr 17:45, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

New information
"Following the storm, federal aid poured into the hardest hit areas. In the United States, over $1 billion was spent on relief and recovery alone. Thousands of fallen trees had to be removed. The wreckage was stacked in piles across the devestated areas in Florida and Alabama, some as much as two stories high. Church mission groups, Habitat For Humanity and other non-profit relief organizations lined up to do whatever they could to aid in the rebuilding process. Civil engineers carefully laid out plans for reconstructing the terribly eroded beaches. They pumped sand from the sea bed onto the shore and gradually built the beach back up.

''The US also sent financial aid to the Caribbean nations affected by Ivan. Nations throughout the region worked to support one another in the recovery efforts. On Grenada, for example, international relief crews and volunteers flew in to assist in the clearing of debris and the distribution of supplies. In the Cayman Islands, a relief fund was set up to collect donations and organize assistance for stricken families. On Barbados, the government initiated a housing recovery project in which three federal agencies worked to rebuild homes that were damaged or destroyed by the storm. These efforts sped up the rebuilding process that was only just finishing up at the start of 2006."''

I wrote this months ago hoping to provide information on the recovery efforts. I had some trouble tracking down the websites I used but I was able to come up with most of it. A couple news sites didn't support the pages anymore so I can't get the specific article where the Grenada info came from. I also came up empty on the Habitat for Humanity stuff. Maybe it's on their website and I just didn't see it, but I know it's out there. If people on the hurricane project could help me track those other sources down, I'd be extremely grateful. I think this info would greatly improve the article. The stuff I have sources for can be added right away, but I want to find that other stuff, I know it's out there. I'd love to hear feedback. The sources I found are:, , , fact about the trees is in the NHC report (section C, paragraph 2). -- § Hurricane E  RIC § archive 06:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice. Feel free to add it in, and for the sentences without sources, you can blank them out, using . Hurricanehink ( talk ) 14:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

NWS reports

 * Mobile/Pensacola report
 * Jackson, MS report
 * New Orleans, LA report
 * Tallahassee, FL report on tornado
 * Tampa Bay, FL report
 * Huntsville, AL report
 * Nashville, TN report
 * Peachtree City, GA report
 * Greenville-Spartanburg, SC report
 * Greenville-Spartanburg, SC report
 * Raleigh, NC report
 * Mount Holly, NJ report
 * Upton, NY report
 * State College, PA report
 * Binghamton, NY report
 * Binghamton, NY report
 * Houston, TX report

These should be included in the article. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 17:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Technically they are, since those reports are written for inclusion into the TPC report. Thegreatdr 00:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, didn't know that. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 01:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Landfall
I haven't done much editing to wikipedia, so I'll leave this to others, but Hurricane Ivan did not make landfall in Orange Beach, Alabama, it hit Gulf Shores, Alabama. This is a quote from the NHC Tropical Cyclone Report linked at the end of the article: "Ivan weakened only slowly and made landfall as a 105 kt hurricane (category 3 on the SSHS; see Figure 2c and Figure 3b.) at approximately 0650 UTC 16 September, just west of Gulf Shores, Alabama"  It says west of Gulf Shores. Orange Beach is east of Gulf Shores, between Gulf Shores and Pensacola, Florida. Gulf Shores extends west to the bay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.176.183.57 (talk) 19:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

tornado outbreak
I was doing some research, and found that around 117 tornados were associated with the landfall of Ivan. How about an article Tornado Outbreak of Hurricane Ivan? Juliancolton 14:38, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Reassessment coming on February 8
...if we collectively cannot fill out the 11 fact tags scattered throughout the page. Also, the reference section is in at least 3 mixed formats, which is problematic. The text needs work also; I fixed several grammar and spelling problems on the page when trying to fill out the reference section. Thegreatdr (talk) 05:00, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've completely fixed the format problem in the reference section, but two fact tags remain. There are also some tense problems in some sections of the article, which I've been slowly weeding out.  Thegreatdr (talk) 22:28, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Good article reassessment
Since there have been no further comments either on the tropical cyclone or Hurricane Ivan talk pages, I'll take that as agreement. I'm listing the article for reassessment. Thegreatdr (talk) 16:25, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

This article was nominated for good article reassessment to determine whether or not it met the good article criteria and so can be listed as a good article. The article was kept as a GA, but consider using peer review for more feedback on the article. Please see the archived discussion for further information. Geometry guy 23:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

GA Sweeps Review: Pass
As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria. I'm specifically going over all of the "Meteorology and atmospheric sciences" articles. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have made several minor corrections throughout the article. Altogether the article is well-written and is still in great shape after its passing in 2005. Continue to improve the article making sure all new information is properly sourced and neutral. It would also be beneficial to go through the article and update all of the access dates of the inline citations and fix any dead links. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 21:32, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Photo at top
Shouldn't the picture atop the article be of the storm path rather than an image from space? From space, all hurricanes look pretty much alike and no information is imparted to the reader from a generic-hurricane-from-the-ISS-photo. Tempshill (talk) 01:24, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Nope, all tropical cyclone articles have the track map in the Storm history and the satellite image in the infobox. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  03:15, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Consider my question suitably rephrased to encompass all tropical cyclone articles, then. Tempshill (talk) 17:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No. Tennis expert (talk) 20:13, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no reason to make such a change. Satellite images give the reader an idea of what the storm looked like with regards to size, shape, and relation to land or geographical locations. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  20:18, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd argue that the last point you make is far better expressed with a storm path map, and the first two points you make are not very important. I don't think the satellite photo imparts much information at all.  As I see it the only reason to have the satellite photo up top is that it's a thousand times prettier.  I have mixed feelings about it, myself.  Tempshill (talk) 22:07, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Hurricane Ivan Merchandise
A freind who works in insurance gave me a "IVAN MEMENTO" or a piece of handpainted hurricane debris - free flying galvanized metal roofing and cut telephone wire..... Maybe worth a pic on the article? Itfc+canes=me (talk) 18:23, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There is certainly no harm in taking the picture. I would be interested in seeing it even if we don't end up putting it in the article.  Plasticup  T / C  00:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Most destructive U.S. hurricanes?
Why is Ivan on the most destructive U.S. hurricanes list? I thought it was knocked off from Gustav and Ike in 2008. Wasn't it? Hurricanes Charley, Ike, Wilma, Andrew, and Katrina should be here, not Ivan, so why was it added to this list? 76.235.205.44 (talk) 00:15, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Unfulfilled prediction
Although this did not actually occur, Ivan was originally predicted to hit Pennsylvania to the same extent that Agnes had back in 1972. I know this because I was growing up in Riverside, PA (part of Northumberland County and Danville Area School District) when it happened. I initially heard, at a Scout meeting as the hurricane was approaching North America, that all of Riverside except the high ground areas (where I thankfully lived) was going to be flooded up to the rooftops. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 20:55, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * As always, shouldn't the Article mention this? The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 20:58, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * We would need a source first. --Golbez (talk) 21:24, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Ivan the Terrible
Should it be mentioned somewhere that this hurricane is often known to locals who live through it as "Ivan the Terrible." I was thinking that the article could say something along the lines of, "Known as Ivan the Terrible (after the Tsar of same name) amongst those who lived through it." Emperor001 (talk) 23:23, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

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