Talk:Hussein of Jordan/Archive 1

Unbalanced
This article is unencyclopædic in tone and biased. I am a fan of the late King but an encyclopædia can't simply carry an article that in tone reads like a press release from the King's press office. FearÉIREANN 22:15, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I think the eulogy from Prince Charles is too long and should be removed entirely Edward 20:03, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

This article seems rather unbalanced. I'm a fan of King Hussein's, but I agree with FearÉIREANN's assessment -- from this article it looks like not much happened, no mention of the Six Day War, nothing about the Palestinian refugees in the country in the 1950s and 60s, or Black September??? -- Arwel 02:08, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

That is exactly my opinion. I am a BIG fan of King Hussein, but also of Wikipedia. This is a PR-piece, not a serious article. The content is totally unbalanced. I am going to put on a POV warning. Gidonb 09:36, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Information should be added about Pascal 22:27, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC) Queen dina was princess dina's mother. Queen Dina was a bedoine and born in Jordan This was a prearranged marriage when dina and hussein was married in 1945 hussein was 12 and Dina was 16. —Comment added by an unidentified user.
 * Husseins secret contacts with Israel
 * problems struggeling with the Palistinian problem, and his struggle to keep the power.
 * The first Iraq war and Husseins point of view
 * Peace with Israel
 * His speech at the burying of Rabin

Who is in picture?
Is that Queen Nur in the picture? (An answer in the text would be better than an answer here in talk, of course.) Jogback 19:09, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

And when was the picture taken? Jinian 13:15, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I agree this page is ridiculous, I am jordanian and i find it laughable "King Hussein's commitment to democracy, civil liberties and human rights has helped pave the way in making Jordan a model state for the region" ... LMAO ... oh is that why he disolved Parliament for what 10 years? And i would say a link to Black September, or maybe jsut how he felt about it. And about the 67 war ... it should be noted that he was the only arab leader at the front. Also it should be included his relationship with neighbouring arab countries like syria and egypt in the 60s. The rather unlikeable aspect he recieved. I dont know ... its a good start i suppose but lots need to be added.

The King was at the time of his death the longest serving leader in international politics. -- I've just changed this to ...one of the longest serving leaders..., it depends on what exactly you define as a leader, of course, but Rama IX of Thailand has been in charge since 1946, and Queen Elizabeth beat his accession to the throne by a few months... -- Arwel 13:10, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, Mr. Jordanian, thankfully, Wikipedia is not about your opinion of King Hussien. He did have a commitment for democracy and civil libretits, and the fact that you can post this here is sufficent proof. In China they even restrict Internet access. I am willing to dedicate enough time to this topic to improve it and cover all aspects of King Hussien. And yes, that person in the picture is Queen Noor.

Saved from a bullet by a medal
He is said to have been saved from a bullet by a medal his grandfather had recently awarded him and insisted he wear.

This is ridiculous, and a "Fairy Tale"! , i really doubt this is written any where else than an "official jordainian i love you hussain, ur probably a god" site!

It was written by him in his book "My Life as a King". If you haven't noticed, the sentence is written in a claim form, rather than a in a form of a fact. We might never know, but its not redicolus.

-Mohammed Abbadi


 * The story is true, it has been written in many books, such as the one Mohammed Abbadi has pointed out (My Life as a King) and another book written about king hussein (but not by him), titled "King Hussein".Eshcorp 12:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You guys can't spell good.--ItsJodo (talk) 02:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

You guy can't write well Manormadman (talk) 09:54, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Small Change
Queen Dina was not the mother of Princess Dina as stated above. Queen Dina and Princess Dina are actually the same person. Queen/Princess Dina is the mother of only one child, Her Royal Highness Princess Alia bint Hussein.

She was born Sharifa Dina bint 'Abdu'l-Hamid in Ciaro, Egypt in 1928. She was styled Her Majesty Queen Dina al-Hussein on April 19, 1955 after her marriage to King Hussein. She became Her Royal Highness Princess Dina bint Abdu'l-Hamid on June 24, 1957 after she was divorced by King Hussein.

She was born in Ciaro, Egypt not Jordan nor was she a bedouin. She was a Sharifa of the Hashemite family (Mecca line). She and Hussein did have a misreable arranged marriage.

I changed one line

He ascended after the 1951 assassination of his father in Jerusalem.

to

He ascended after the 1952 resignation of his father.

Because it was his grandfather who was assasinated in Jerusalem, and his father Talal who became king then. I did this small change, and I look forward to adding alot of other more usefull additions.

Palestinian Situation in Jordan
In response to what Mr. Al-Abbadi has suggested, we find many fairy tales attached to the biography of this King. In his books, as well as his widow's books, Queen Nour's "Leap of Faith", we find many sensationalized stories that seem all together hard to believe. Let's not forget that most information obtained on King Hussein came from official Jordanian media sources, i.e. propaganda machines, leaving us with all good stories on him.

Politically speaking, the main issue that King Hussein could be blamed for is the fact that most Jordanians come from Palestinian heritage, nevertheless, they don’t seem to be getting any of their legitimate rights in Jordan, only 2% of parlement in Jordan yet the number of Jordanians of Palestinian heritage according to the Jordanian Government itself is 60%, that is NOT including 1.78 million who hold a refugees status by the UNRWA, which means if you add those to the sum of 5.9 million Jordanians, the actually percentage of Jordanians of Palestinian heritage is more than 88%, and even the 88% is not inclusive of 300,000 Palestinian non-citizens living in Jordan. A proof, the population of all of southern Jordan, which is mostly Jordanian natives, is less than 250,000, Amman and Zarqa, dominated by Palestinian population, make up most of the country. The Jordanian Government has been trying for decades to conceal the fact that most Jordanians come from a Palestinian heritage. Now since we are speaking about King Hussein, I agree, his most fatal mistake is isolating and exclusion of Jordanians of Palestinian heritage, example the current government has less than 10% of the ministers of Palestinian heritage, and so was the case all through the history of Jordan, while a Southern city, Kerak has so far provided half of all Jordanian ministers, despite the fact that Karak's population is less than 50,000, and also Kerak has 14 deputies, seats, in the house, while Amman, a city of 3.8 million has only 30, of course most Ammanites are Palestinians! That is not democracy, and you do not have to believe me, check the reports of Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International, I have lived in Jordan and I know all it takes for anyone to be tortured with no charges at a police station is having his last name indicating that he is a Jordanian of Palestinian heritage, and automatically he most likely will be tortured or even imprisoned. Scholarships is a very interesting issue, foreign Governments grant those to Jordan in order to help it with its burden of Palestinian refugees, amazingly enough the scholarships go only to be Bedouins and native Jordanians, Mr Abbadi, unless you live in Mars, you will know that NO PALESTINIANS REGARDLESS OF HOW QUALIFIED HE OR SHE IS, could get any scholarship in Jordan! that is no secret, what we have now in Jordan is a very sad oppressed Palestinian majority with a very fertile ground for terrorism and true desire to rid of Israel by the people in hope they could go home and escape the oppression of their government, which by the way has changed since His Majesty King Abdullah II has come to the office. Former CIA Chief Director for the Middle East, Jordanian-American Adnan Abu Odeh, spoke on Al-Jazeera extensively of the exclusion of Palestinians in Jordan and how they are treated in fear and questioning by all Government institution, which of course creates fertile ground for unrest, terrorism, and threatens Israel's security which USA is concerned with. Mr. Abbadi, you and your people have enjoyed a free ride on our backs for too long, free education, free scholarships, free housing, free health care, employment, and so on all of our tax money, this will change sooner or later, live with it.

==The assumption that it follows from the fact that King Abdullah is the current king of Jordan, hence Antoinette Avril Gardiner ('Toni Gardiner')/Princess Muna al-Hussein must have converted to Islam is logically specious== There is no lack of intrigue in the court of the Kings of Jordan, and it is possible that some rules were bent to grant King Hussein his dying wishes. The following is the paragraph in question from the main page.

"However, the Jordanian Constitution at Chapter VI Part I Article 28e specifically requires that every person with rights of succession to the Jordainan throne be born of a legitimate wife who is Muslim. The fact that the current King (Abdullah II) is the son of Princess Muna al-Hussein proves that Princess Muna did, indeed, convert to Islam. If Muna had not converted to Islam Abdullah II, Prince Faisal and their issue would not have the hereditary rights that they enjoy."

I agree that the quote above is an assumption, not a fact, and is logically specious. It needs to be removed. I am not qualified to edit this article, but somebody with the requisite knowledge needs to step up.


 * It is a fact that Princess Muna al-Hussein is a Muslim. Please, provide proof that she is not. The Jordanian Constitution requires that every King or dynast be the child of a legal wife who is Muslim. This is, also, a FACT not an assumption. Please, equerry the relevant articles of the constitution if you are in doubt. I placed the above comment concerning the constitutional and legal rights of Princess Muna's male decendants, because I do have the requisite knowledge required. Since you clearly lack that knowledge or the desire to do the appropriate research please step down and stop placing "theory" that Princess Muna did not convert and that Abdullah's acension was illegal back into the article.

King Abdullah and Prince Faisal had hereditary rights to the crown before King Hussein became ill. Abdullah was actually Crown Prince from his birth until 1965. His father named his brother Prince El Hassan Crown Prince April 1, 1965 to keep the infant Crown Prince from becoming a pawn in the event of his father's assination (which was likely at the time).

It has been well known since King Hussein's marriage to Princess Muna that she converted to Islam. Some may doubt the conviction with which she follows Islam, but not that she converted.

King Hussein didn't bend any rules by naming his eldest son King. He was perfectly within his legal rights as King to name any of his sons or male siblings who is a legal dynast under the constition to be his heir. He didn't choose his eldest son out of some mystery pool of men who aren't dynasts. He choose his eldest son from among the male Hashemite's who ALREADY had dynastic rights to the throne.

You have a clear misunderstanding of how the laws of succession work in Jordan, and you seem unwilling to accept that anyone else does. Additionally, you seem unwilling to bother to do the appropriate research. You would rather assume that Princess Muna never converted, that Abdullah holds the thrown illegally, that Prince Faisal and Prince Omar are not legal heirs to the Kingdom than to bother reading the constitution and looking at the actual events instead assuming that you are correct when all evidence points to the contrary.

Let me put it another way so that you may possibly understand it since you cannot be bothered with research.

The present King, Abdullah II, was Crown Prince of The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan from the time of his birth in 1963 until April 1, 1965. The constitution was ratified in 1952. That same law that I keep pointing out that requires a Muslim mother was also in effect from 1952 onward. In "English" that means that if Princess Muna wasn't Muslim by the time of Abdullah's birth he wouldn't have been Crown Prince from 1963-1965 nor would he have been premitted to be named as Crown Prince again prior to his father's death. He certainly wouldn't have been premitted to be confirmed as King if Princess Muna was not Muslim at the time of his birth.

The only change to the laws that govern succession since 1952 was the 1965 addition that allows a King to name a successor. This successor must meet all the constitutional requirements for being a dynast by being a male line decendant of King Abduallah I born of legally married parents BOTH of whom must be Muslim. The 1965 addition only allows the King to name a successor from his sons or his own bothers.

You may see the relvant portion of the constitution at the following link. If you prefer I can provide links to websites (or point you to books) where you may view the constitution that isn't affiliated with the Jordanian Royal Family. Although, I will point out that they will be exactly the same.

http://www.kingabdullah.jo/main.php?main_page=0&lang_hmka1=1

Queen Brandissima

Actually, I am not trying to argue that Queen Muna is or is not a Muslim. I am just arguing that it's not enough to argue that she is a Muslim since her son is now the King of Jordan. Perhaps an article, where she articulates her faith, or where she is quoted as having fasted Ramadan, or some kind of more concrete evidence. Personally, I do not care whether Queen Muna is Muslim or not, and I do not feel that this fact would make King Abdullah II ascension to the throne less or more legitimate.

My feeling is that the whole question of Queen Muna's faith be struck from the article. We can keep the reference to the fact that her son is the current King of Jordan and let the readers draw their own conclusions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.182.56.5 (talk) 21:21, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Six-Day War
I'm sure this article could have more about the Six-Day War than "In the Six-day war, the king held onto his throne". -Ashley Pomeroy 16:41, 6 February 2007 (UTC) the great king

I'm pretty sure the Israelies attacked the people of Jordan in that one, not the other way around. Don't get me wrong, I'm not biased one way or the other or anything, give them some time, shoe would of been on the other foot, that is what armies tend to do after all, attack, or get attacked and hope to make it thru it and do your own attacking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 05:04, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Formatting/white space
I really think the article should be reformatted to remove the huge white space. Additionally, the article needs to be edited for spacing and punctuation. ```` Queen Brandissima —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Unsupported statements
The paragraph Policy Towards Jordanians of Palestinian Heritage has no references or sources to prove any of its content. It mentions amounts of money that have not been quantified, and does not state correctly that the Jordanian economy is controlled by Jordanian Palestinians, and does not explain well why all this happened if true!

This whole paragraph I think ought to be deleted if not supported. I do not know the rules here but the template should not be hanging there more than a week.--mnb 17:44, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the section, it's uncited. (Imad marie (talk) 20:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC))

brethren
"brethren" is not a modern English word of neutral register. It is used in church services and in the Bible; anywhere else you meet it, it sounds like an affectation. Please cite the source of the translation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by VKokielov (talk • contribs) 17:04, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * But now it strikes me it might not be any translation at all. --VKokielov (talk) 15:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

sam —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.51.223 (talk) 22:56, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Improvments in Jordan
Is this section necessary? "he paid attention to the development of better water and electricity networks, in addition to sewage networks, which were only available to 10% of the population; by the end of his reign, the percentage had reached 99%". I believe this is a natural fact for a king that ruled for 47 years... (Imad marie (talk) 06:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC))

I removed the section (Imad marie (talk) 09:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC))

Mike Myers?
I removed the paragraph that says King Hussein was a fan of Austin Powers and he did impressions of Dr. Evil. Is it supposed to be a joke? vandalism? it is not referenced and Austin Powers started in 1997 and the King died in 1999 from cancer, somehow I doubt he became a fan and did impressions for high-ranking officers of the U.S military while dying from cancer... Looks like I might be wrong and the King might have been a fan after all...  Then again this is not confirmed anywhere, I found articles citing wikipedia as the source...

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ana salti (talk • contribs) 23:52, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

There is a story that during certain military related negotiations, King Hussein did an impromptu Dr. Evil impression (given his then current bald and likely de-bearded condition). It was in the context of repeating the terms of the deal and adding "after the fact" as an apparent joke "...and one million dollars" in the vein of Dr. Evil. Hilariously, the U.S. senior military staff thought the additional "term" was a legitimate demand and started to scramble to put the million dollars together until informed by their junior staff that the statement was a intended as a joke. The joke was confirmed via gingerly worded inquiry back to King Hussein and the deal was concluded under the "original" term minus any demand for a one million dollar bribe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.29.179.170 (talk) 19:46, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

How to Remember His Name
HUSSEIN replaced his mentally ill father because Jordians want a king WHO'S SANE.

Requested move
Do not move. Parsecboy (talk) 17:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I suggest moving the page to Hussein bin Talal, any objections? Imad marie (talk) 10:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Objection. Our article titles should use the name most recognizable to our readers, in part to tell our readers who in Creation we are talking about. To most English-speakers, Hussein bin Talal might as well be a medieval imam. If this name were not so widely ambiguous, we would use Hussein. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:38, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Please see WP:Official names, for why we don't use them. This is a slightly different question, but not much. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:39, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose, common practice for royalty is not to use the full name. For example, William I, German Emperor, not "William Frederick Louis", and Louis XVI of France, not "Louis-Auguste". Parsecboy (talk) 00:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose per comments above. This is the standard naming form for royal people of all nationalities. Good Ol’factory (talk) 11:18, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, I will remove the request tag. Imad marie (talk) 10:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Hussein I?
Why is King Talal referred to as Talal I but King Hussein is just called Hussein (no number). Anybody know? It seems inconsistent. Tad Lincoln (talk) 21:59, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Both of them should be referred to without the ordinal because there is no Hussein II (yet) and no Talal II. Surtsicna (talk) 22:11, 13 January 2010 (UTC)