Talk:Huwala/Archive 1

Response to Totti
Thanks for the personal perspective Totti, but as a Bahraini surely you're aware of how Bahrain's business and intellectual circles are dominated by Holis. It might have been tough at the start but Holis have done very well not just in Bahrain but in Qatar and Dubai, especially compared with the alternative of living as sunnis in Iran. People talk about Bahrain as dominated by Sunnis, but if you look closer you'll see that after the al Khalifa and a few allied tribes, a specific group of Sunnis does much better than the rest - the Holis. Sure, there's the veneer of bedouins at the top and the Holis have to kiss arse and pretend to be Arabs, but in return they're left in peace to control vast swathes of the economy. In fact, looked at in terms of Yale academic Amy Chua's analysis of Market Dominant Minorities, Huwala's play this role in the Gulf - analogous to the ethnic Chinese in SE Asia, the Lebanese in Africa and the Jews in the US.

So please, rather than see this article as the story of how tough its been for an immigrant group, the real story should be how they have forced their way into the top echelons of Gulf societies in the last 200 years. What has made them so competitive?

Also, is there any substance in the claim made by some that the Al Makhtoum are of Holi origin? Tippity Top Cat 12:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I see
Your right, in fact I am happy of what the huwala represent, but the correction issue I am going to write dear writer, isn't of what they just did in business but their history of how they reached Bahrain and why? With the support of historical evidence from Wikipedia it self. And by the way, i am not offending anybody, nor the Persians, nor the Arabs, I am as what they call "Khodmoni" myself, and i am pure Persian, what i am to explain here, are the differences between the Arabs who departed from Persia, and the Persians! many people get confused because both of them are Sunni Muslims, and both have the same original accent, some of them still speak it, some of them don't know, and some refuse. I am here to explain the historical facts, since I've been raised in the heart of Manama between the original holies from most of the families, and also because I read and study history allot. One of the fact that made this confusion and fuss to me, is the religious problems between sunna and Shia, or else of that Bahrain wasn't like this before at least 3 decades. But i do admire your splendid information about what did the holi do and reach in the business area on the top levels of the gulf and feel proud of what they achieved even, and really would like you to add perhaps additional business information of what the huwala did in front of my correction topic, which I don't hope it'll offend you or will disrespect you even. I am going to put certain fact supported with historical evidence from Wiki it self as i said, and from what i saw and asked even here in the society. Being open minded and having friends from different cultures, religions and even "math-hab", makes you see the world more better obviously dear. And by the way some may argue with me, becuase there's actually a famous book under the name of "Lengeh's History" for Kamla Al Qasemi from the U.A.E about Lengeh's history. with due respect to her, half of her book at least isn't right, she just focuses on the Sunni Huwala first, she forgot eh Gerashi family, whom were Sunni then converted to Shia, and she forgot that some small groups of Lengeh were actually Arabs. To her all of the Sunni Persians in Lengeh were Arabs! and that is really wrong. Plus that she didn't even mention the other groups and religions in Bandar Lengeh which was a well known port that had many nationalities. Other Prove to my correction topic dear is that I made a study from the villages themselves in Persia. The town people themselves in the Sunni Persian village in Iran deny that they are Arabs! it was the same what my grand father told me years before as well as my father, for to be honest and loyal to put such information, and due to the respect of such important and big issue, i had to make a study with official proves for the dear reader. At the end we are making an article about history on the internet's biggest data base. So please understand me and wait for my article, I do repeat my respect to you in case of misunderstanding

What is Hwala/Holi ?!!?
I am Bastaki from Dubai, and we are Sunni Persians from a small town in Persia named Bastak. The town was ruled by some Abbasids who ran away from Iraq to Persia after the Moghol invasion, some Hashimites also followed in few numbers with few people from Medina. In general, the people of Bastak are PERSIANS! When the Abbasid and other fellows of Medina came to Bastak, it was already a proper town with its own native Persians who's faith was Sunni. Having a small number of people who trace their roots back to Hashimite origins does not make Bastak an Arab town, this is none sense.

We are not Hwala or whatever the word is. I never heard of this word excpet from Bahreini people. I can explain one thing here for all of you. The term Hwala refers to 7 Arabian tribes that moved from the Arabian Peninsula towards the Persian coasts of the gulf. These tribes are Al Hammadi, Al Ali, Al Abeidli, Al Nasri, Al Mharrami, Al Marzoogi, & Al Tamimi. Nevertheless, those tribes also interacted with Persians of the Persian coasts, and thats where they got influenced softly by the Persian culture, but as a matter of fact they remain Arabs, and they spoke Arabic, and practised Arabic traditions. Note that their history of immigration and residency in Persia lasted for less than 250 years.

There is another term used to call those Hwala that represented in the 7 Arabic tribes I mentioned, which is Arab-Fars, meaning "Arabs of Persia". The problem is that there are different terms used in each gulf country. But Hwala are Arabs who lived in Persia for less than 2 centuries and are from those tribes I mentioned. This is proper history.

For the Khonji fellow, with all due respect my friend, but Khonj is very deep in Persian history with ancient Persian ruins and was in the heart of the Persian Empire boarders. Khonj has only few Hashimites who came from Iraq back after the Moghol invasion, other than that, no Arabs ever invaded that small city! This is none sense. Even those Hashimites of Khonj, they have dissolved in the Persian society very badly. In genetics, if you got mixed with another race for 5 generations, eventually your genetic codes change from 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and then a complete different code that follows the new race. Now those Hashimites of Khonj or even Bastak got 35 generations, which is fair enough to cancel their previous genetic code and make them total Persians, but when we talk history we have to mention the historical facts as part of honesty of passing knowledge.

As I mentioned, in general Bastak, Khonj, Evaz, Karmostaj, Jana, Lamerd, Geladar, Anveh, khoor, Koohej, etc. all of them are Persian towns, and its population represent the Sunni minority of Persians. We are Sunnis tracking the Shafei school, and because we are loyal to our mazhab, we don't practise much of the Persian culture, and prefer to stick to the Islamic occasions only. It is very clear we only celebrate Eed Fitr and Eed Azha. Unlike the Arabs who practise many other celebrations like the mid of sha'ban month, and gergean along with other events of their culture. We Bastakis and other Sunni Persians always mention the Norooz as the Eed of nature and life, but we don't celebrate it since Islamic laws restrict us with the Fitr and Azha Eeds only. The last rulers of Bastak started his first sentences of his book "Tareekhe Jehangereye" by praising Norooz very nicely. After the horrible massacres that were carried by the Safavid dynasty (a Turkish family that ruled Persia), to force Persians to convert from Sunni faith to Sheit faith, we as Sunnis isolated ourselves between the mountains of Zagros to avoid death, yet we still faced danger and were involved with wars, but eventually we managed to save our Sunni faith. I persoanlly know that my ancesstors who lived during the Safavid period converted to Sheiat faith to avoid death, but then converted back to Sunni faith.

Today, there have been several books published under the title of "The Arab Hwala" and "Arab-Fares" and others .. The authors of these books always claim that the Sunni Persians are of Arab origin, and that is really annouying and stupid. The authors managed to give a proper analysis for the the 7 tribes of Hwala Arabs that I mentioned above (Hammadi, Abadeili, Marzoogi, Harami, Tamimi, Al Ali, Al Nasri) and gave many proofs, but they dramatically FAILED to give a proper analysis for the people of Bastak, Evaz, and Khonj. They only refered them as towns with full population of Arabs! This only shows how poor their claims are.

Bastakis, Evazis, Khonjis and other Sunni Persians .. They carry Persian family names, they speak a very old local Perian dialect that hardly borrows any Arabic word, they look Persians in general and not Arabs. The people of these cities rejects the Arabian ancesstory, the towns mentioned are located inside the Persian lands and not the coasts. All these information only leads to the Persian identity of these towns, and is fair enough to reject the poor claims of the authors of the recently released books of "Arab-Fares", and "Hwala Arabs".

Now in Bahrein, I dont know why the term Hwala was widely used over there!? As far as I know is that they were bashed by the Arabs, specially after the Arab nationalist movements that influenced Bahrein which is now ruled by an Arabic family that is originally not even from Bahrein, thus the Persian culture of the Sunni Persians was not welcomed back then, thus it made people act Arabic. Sunni Persians got influenced strongly by the Arabs, and that even resulted in huge changes in our society. Already many of us don't speak our local Persian dialect, and we dress now like Arabs, and some of us started to pretend to be Arabs to ensure getting more respect & attention from the ruling families of the G.C.C which is very sad really.

I would like to visit the Sunni Persian towns in Iran, and carry out a whole project & research regarding our history that has been manipulated by some random people, and gave a very wrong image. I'm disappointed that those authors did not even give 1% of attention to any Sunni Persian identity at all! It is obvious those authors are acting like very nationalistic Arabist who wants to drag all nearby nations into the Arabic race by manipulating history.

I hope I made it clear here already, and for those Arab-Wannabe Sunni Persians/Ajams, please think twice and NEVER beleive what is being sold in the book stores from such one-sided fake history books. The history of our Persian hometowns such as Bastak, and Khonj is mentioned in few original history books such as "Tareekhe Jehangereye" that was written by the last ruler of Bastak. Why do people believe in what random people write about Bastak, and ignore the proper written history by the ruler of Bastak himself?! Be proud of being a Sunni Persian and always keep in mind that we are of great history starting from the great Persian Empire, to the Islamic era where 85% of Islamic scientists were Sunni Persians, and even when most Persians converted to Sheiat by force before 400 years ago, still we Sunni Persians exist! We are proud of our Sunni faith more than anything else, because that is our passport to paradise and Janna.

Salam/Peace

Contact me on Maa1441@gmail.com

Bahraini Holi
This is regarding the last entry, the bastaki guy from dubai.

If what you say is true, and if holi people are from persia originaly as you say, then why do the ajams in Bahrain look diffeent than the holi?

I went to saudi arabia, to hejaz particulary and found many people that have similar features as mine, they actually thought I am a saudi from hejaz as well, I told them that I am from Bahrain.

That is proof enough don't you think? now as you say that you are persian but in the same time you talk about generation and disolving in the population, then why did you say that you are persian? aren't you living in dubai? why don't you desolve there? do you need to proof to people that you are persian? or do you just want to show your origins?

Thank You

To the Bahreini "Holi"
Dear friend, the term holi as I mentioned is clearly used to mention the only SEVEN tribes i mentioned above. This is proper history.

In Bahrein you call shee3i persians ajams, but thats only i bahrein! In Kuwait, Qatar, and Dubai we all refer to us Khodmoonis/Hamshehris as AJAM, and we never use the term "Holi" at all! This is a fact.

I don't need to prove to anyone that I am Persian or not, but it is also silly and out of sense to deny your persian origins.

1) YOU speak a PERSIAN dialect, a very local iranian dialect that has LESS Arabic words in it than modern Farsi!

2) YOU with all DUE respect look Iranian (if you are really a person who came from our persian hometowns in iran), and if you share some features like people in Hejaz, well as far as we all know that Saudi people really look VERY different than us, and if SOMEHOW you look similar to people there, well I think the President of Iran "Ahmedi Nejad" looks really very Arabic, but is he really an Arab?! My dear friend, people inter-married and got mixed, and if u carry some arabic features that does not make u an arab.

3) You come from Iran, your ancesstors lived there all their lives, and you untill today there is NOT ONE single proper proof that your family moved from arabia to persia, sorry but all the reasons mentioned in some silly poor books like "arab fares" makes no sense when you compare it to the book of "Tareekh Jehangereye" that was written by the last ruler of Bastak who clearly discussed our issue and position in the culture as Sunni Persians who faught for their Sunni mazhab!

4) Dubai's population is 70% from ajams from Persia! So what kind of dissolving you want us to do if the society of Dubai is aslan ajami. And for the record, Dubai itself is a name created by us Bastakis and it means in our local dialect "the two brides" (Du-Bayy) open any geographical book and read the name Dubai, u will find it written as "Du-bayy". Even if Dubai was populated 100% by "Arabs", why would we ever sell and give up our identity to something else?! This is TOO fake, and even Arabs themselves they make fun of ajam who acts like Arabs!

5) It is VERY easy to distinguish any Arab from an Ajam, this is very clear you can't deny this fact!

6) Why do you have different traditions, culture, and life style than Arabs?! Doesn't that makes you an ajam? Why do u think one-sided and want to prove that you are an "Arab"? If you come from the 7 arabic tribes that lived in Persia, then you can claimm your arabian roots, but i suppose you dont belong to any of them, thus you are an Ajam.

7) If arabs takes the Persian identity as a "cheap irani" thingy, well do you have to believe it and feel shy about being an Iranian? Do you even know the Persian history and that it's way TOO BIG and DEEP than the Arabic one? Why don't you ever give amy aknoweledgment to Persia?

8) If you were truly from "arabic" origins, then why does the people of Bastak, Evaz, Khonj, and Jenah in Iran strongly rejects the "Arabian" identity? What proof you got that shows you are from "arabic origins"?? Remember, only those who lived in the Banader are arabs, but our hometowns are INSIDE Iranian lands, and in south Fars province which was the heart of the Persian Empire!

9) Seriously, do you think Bastak, Evaz, Khonj, and Jenah were populated fully by Arabs? Always remember that the natives of these villages who still live there and did not move to bahrein or dubai, they reject the "Arabic" identity very strongly, and as I heard, ,they are not interested in Arabs much. If you think of yourself different from us, then you are mostly welcomed to join the arabic race, but never talk on behlaf of us ajam. You represent urself my friend. One more thing, do you think the sunni Persians just vanished in air and disappeared from life?! Why dont you give any aknoweldgment to sunni persians? Do you even know the proper history of Bastak and it's population??

10) Go visit Bastak or Khonj or Evaz, and tell them that they are all Arabs, and tell me if they did not throw you with stones!

11) Why Bastakis, Evazis, Khonjis, and Janahis dont cary any Arabic feature in their culture, traditions, life style, looks and face features?! Why are they very different from Arabs? If they were truely "Arabs" then atleast they would've carried atleast 50% of arabic traditions or culture or ATLEAST language! Well thats because they are NOT Arabs, they are Ajam.

12) You call the shee3i persians in bahrein as "ajam" and JUST because they are shee3i you want to avoid being of the same category as them! This is the bottom line from your point of view, BUT the fact is that both of you are Ajams/Persians except that you are Sunni and they are Shiee, and no they dont look different than us, they look just like us. In fact we even look more persian than them since they inter-married with baharna (shiee arabs), but we sunni persians always marry from each other since we prefer to remain boarded in our mini society.

Khodafez azezam!

Bahraini Holi
for your information I don't understand one word of ajami language, i have been speaking arabic all my life.

i didn't claim that all people from these villages are arabs, some are and that is why they returned back to arabia.

i don't look iranian at all, nobody who ever saw me said that i look iranian, everybody thinks i am from saudi.

as for your proof that we came from arabia, we have a family tree that shows that we are decendents of al abbas bin abdul muttaleb

I think you are totally confused, as again I don't claim that all people who are sunni in iran are arabic or from arab origins, just the term holi refers to those people who are from arabic origins.

and who said that this is only a term used in bahrain? it is used in kuwait, saudi arabia, united arab emirates and qatar!

Noor Bastaki, reply to Bahreini "Holi"
To the "Bahreini Holi" .. Stop talking non sense about history! You have no write to talk on behalf a whole group of people. The explanation given by the Bastaki guy who debated you are all based on proper history, so stop manipulating please.

Larestan country or district in Iran is located in Fars province of Iran, this area was the hub of the Persian Empire, and the natives of these areas are all Persians. This includes Bastak, Khonj, Evaz, and many other villages nearby. We are talking proper history and genetics tests back-bones it.

The term "Huwala" refers to several Arabian tribes who left Arabia towards the Persian coasts due to the poor life in their original area also due to some tribical conflicts between the tribes. Al Ali, Al Hammadi, Al Abadeili, Al Marzooqi, Al Tamimi, Al Maharrami, and Al Nosoori are the 7 Arabian tribes that lived in the persian coasts for approx. 200 years, and they left back to Arabia after Shah Pahlavi (ex-king of Iran) carried out the White Revolution. Those 7 tribes were then refered as Hawala poiting to the historical event where they left Arabian and then came back to it. FULL STOP!

If you are not part of those 7 tribes, then you are NOT NOT NOT Holi and please stop talking non sense. I am basing my points on what people around talk or what I read from some cheap price-less books sold in the markets written by some nationalistic Arabist people who wants to make everything "Arabic".

If you got a family tree to Abbas or whom ever, well seriously I personally don't care, and this is something personal for you and don't expect anybody to just believe you right away. Please note, in case you were from the decendents of Abbas then your history in Persia took a period of 1000 years! A period enough to cancel your ex-Arabian blood line as what the genetic test will show. Within 5 generations of inter-marriage with a different race and group of people will eventually flip your genetic map, thus you can't consider yourself as an "Arab", only with proper documents you can claim some historical backgrounds, but not bloodline.

It is not necessary for a person to look Saudi so that he can prove he is an Arab. This is seriously some childish blabbering! Please grow up. The middle east area got mixed between all it's nations. As the Bastaki friend above mentioned the president of Iran "Ahmed Nejad" does not look Iranian, he looks more Arabic but that does not make him an Arab person. More over, there is no such a land named Saudia, that land is called Arabian Peninsula, but it seems that Al Saaud family wanted to take over the whole land for their name only which is really very stupid! Arabs make me laugh when it comes to history, they just want to buy any pride for themselves without giving efforts or respecting the history of humanity. The U.S is ruled by G.W Bush, so can we call America "Bushia"??!?!

So what if you don't speak Farsi or understand Ajami?! I am Persian, my ancesstors are from Bastak, but we are living in Dubai for 130 years, yet I don't speak the Farsi or even my local Bastaki dialect but that does not mean I am not Persian any more.

The term "Holi" is NEVER used in UAE and Kuwait, I am from Dubai, and my mother is from Kuwait, both of my parent are Bastakis and as far as we are rooted in these two countries we NEVER heard the term "Holi" of yours. Only in Bahrein people use this term, and they got themselves confused by using it to distinguish a Sheei or a Sunni who came from Iran so they called any Sunni from Iran a Holi, and any Sheei from Iran as an Ajam. This confusion has caused a miss-understaning between us Sunni Ajams in Kuwait, and UAE (Dubai), because we still call ourselves AJAM, IRANIANS, and we NEVER use the term Holi, only for those 7 Arabian tribes. The Sunni Ajams are from Bastak, Khonj, Evaz, Jana, and other nearby villages. We have some Hashimites but again they are genetically not considered Arabs since they dissolved between Persians for atleast 1000 years! Do you even know what ONE THOUSAND years means??? It means atleast 35 generations dissolved between Iranians and genetically this changes your genetic map.

Now if you are not able to understand this information, then stop talking non sense about history, and don't give any random explanation for the term "Ajam" or "Holi", and dont relate yourself to any these groups, because you can't make up a new version of history for yourself. If you think that you look Saudi, and if you love Saudis then leave Bahrein and go live in Saudia between Saudis who looks like you and call your self a Saudi citizen.

Thank You,

M.Noor Bastaki

Bahraini Holi
I really don't beleive that you are Bastaki from dubai and don't use the term "Holi". I have relatives in dubai and sharjah and also some friends and they all use that term.

I also know lots of people in Saudi, kuwait and Qatar and they all use that term! I am surpised you don't, the only explanation would be that you are actually shia'a and not sunni and that is why you are so angry.

I you are not holi as you say then why are you upset? I really don't understand this, then this matter does not concern you!

if you claim that in kuwait they don't use the term holi, then why one of the books about the huwala which is "Tareekh Arab Alhuwala" is written by a kuwaiti?? and another book which is "arab faris" is written by a saudi man??

And its your name which proves if you are arab or ajam from the family tree not your bloodline!

That is all I got to say on the matter, I won't be writting here anymore as this have turned to a forum not a serious discussion page.

Thanks

Dear people,
Stop being so harsh with each other. The problem is that the matter of the Huwala is rather confused; there ARE Arabs there, as well as Persians. There are even some Shi'a Huwala, though I've never met any in person. I am Holi, and in fact related to the last ruler of Bastak, the last Khan, and a descendant of one of the earlier Khans. I have a family tree going back to the uncle of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as well, and part of this is actually documented in the Khan's book, if you look closely. There is a section on his ancestry. It is true the Arabs of the south of Iran, including the Satwat Mamaleek rulers, were heavily influenced by Iranian culture; after all, they were living in Iran. What I think I should add, however, is that 1) they rarely married outside their families, to keep the blood-line pure (which weakens the whole genetics theory), especially the Abbasid rulers and other prominent families; 2) they kept their Arabic language in many places, as well as customs and the like; 3) the Abbasids and the Hashemites are not the only Arabs; there are the Siddiquis, descendants of Abu Baker, and the Ansaris, who descend from the Ansar tribes who helped the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), and many others; 4) the 7-tribes theory as used here is incorrect, since it refers in fact to tribes from Iraq that were referred to, in a separate designation of the term, as "Huwala". By simply admitting that Abbasids and Hashemites went to Iran, you are already contradicting the same by mentioning other Arabs in the region. Therefore, it is clear there are more than 7 tribes that are of Arab descent in Iran, and these are all Huwala.

That being said, there are a lot of Persian Huwala out there as well. Hence the confusion. After all, like you guys said, the Arabs are a minority; the vast majority of people in the southern part of Iran are Persians. To be called Bastaki or Lari or Khonji or whatever does not mean you are definitely Arab or Persian. Again, 1) there has been a lot of mixing (though the point already given with regard to the ruling families and the more prominent of the Arab families should be kept in mind); and 2) all Bastaki or Lari or Khonji means is that you are originally from that particular area. Whether you are of Arab or Persian descent will require further delving. Because there are both types in all these areas; although in all these areas, again, the vast majority are of Persian ancestry.

Finally, many modern-day Huwala are actually confused as to whether they are Arabs or Persians, and some by default refer to themselves as Persian. This is not always correct.

With regard to the so-called "Persian" dialect; there are many, depending on the region from the south of Iran you are from. These dialects are not pure "Persian", but are based on Middle Persian, with some Arabic, Indian, and even French thrown in. All this testifies to the contact between the people of the south of Iran and other cultures, but serves as well to confuse matters further.

Returning to the term "Huwala", I think some of the confusion stems from it. "Huwala", from the Arabic "tahawalu", refers to the Arabs who moved to Iran. Many have since moved back to Arab lands. Therefore, the term more accurately fits the Arabs of the south of Iran. "Khodmoni" is the more collective term, and includes both these Arabs and the Persians of the south of Iran. "Khodmoni" is used by both the Arabs and the Persians to refer to themselves; "Huwala", it seems to me, refers more properly only to the former. None of the two will object to the use of "Khodmoni", the Persians will to the latter. That is because though they may come from regions where there are "Huwala", they are not themselves and object to the term being applied to them. It may be possible, however, to use the term "Huwala" to refer to those from the south of Iran of Arab ancestry, and "Ajam", or "Irani" rather, to those of Persian ancestry.

These are some additional things to consider. I know that controversy still rages. Anyone is free to disagree with me; but please, do so politely and remember that what you are stating is your opinion and there are many others. I have already kept this in mind.

Regards 01:26, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Please listen to me, i am the one who made this article
Hello, I'm Francesco Totti, and I am the one who originally posted this Huwala article..or perhaps corrected it!

As an introduction, I must say that am really happy to see such discussion over this article, and really do thank everybody to discuss this matter which obviously means that everybody is concerned whether he was Persian or not, nonetheless everybody is concerned about his roots which is very nice.

But first I would like to thank my dear Bastaki or Noor Bastaki ( I don't know if they were one or 2 people perhaps), anyways I thank them both. But regarding Mr. Holi or Bahraini holi and otheres, with due respect, all of you are mistaken...

Yes you are, sorry, but no one of you guys actually brought me one strong prove of your claims! But Bastaki on the other hand, and "politely" wrote many proves of what I have wrote in the article, or actually he explained what I've said more deeply, and I really thank him for that.


 * And by the way, this the second time i post this comment, i don't know who deleted it before and on what reason, though i was so polite and my comment did convice everybody as i assumed, so please, to the person who did this, please inform me why you did that because i see it as a disgrace! If i was unpolite you can tell me that, thought i wasn't! also i talked with proves and regards no just from nothing!

Now please allow me to write some points in response to Holi's discussion and the other "Arabs" too:

1) I believe that this is the biggest data base on the internet and it's like an open book but "live", so you can edit it any time and it's so democratic and open minded, that's why I love wikipedia and feel proud that am a member here.

What I mean is this: I wouldn't come and paste something only because am angry of some incorrect information. I only wrote what I have wrote after studying this issue for years, and studying it for months to post it here in front of millions! so what I have written here is so correct and I'll explain how I did it though it still needs some correction perhaps in the term of references or grammar.

2) To "Holi", first of all. Who told you that we don't like Ajams? If you were looking closely you'll notice we're the same, except if maybe you were looking to a Holi person which had a mixed blood with Arabs maybe, or he had so much Arab style or tradition around him, which is widely found in Saudi Arabia, where "non-Arab" people are under racism from the Bedouin tribes there! Or even perhaps his dialect was pure Arabian perhaps because his Persian Culture is weak, as I mentioned into my article about Persians families. In my case and my family, we really don't look Arab, because most of us - at least my father's generation - speak Persian and admit that we are Persians, but unlike the Ajams, we are Sunni.

And by the way I'll tell you a fact about my family if you were keen to know: I am from the Janahi family (the famous branch of the family), and most of our current generation mistakenly believe that were are originally Arabs as you were saying, and that is the wrong mentality they have due to their parents teachings. They know nothing about our ancestors who came to Bahrain, from where they came? and why did they come here at all! Their parents themselves have big business interests and many are successful and have big names with big Arabian business men and Shaiks, so I think it'll be hell allot easier if they acted like the Arab also because we're living in an Arabian country and we are a part of it now, which is fine by me because I really Love my country too, but still am not Arab dear.

3) Speaking of my family also, since you were saying that you asked old people, allow me to tell you what I asked too, and "whom" I have asked. My Grandfather, he's now 82 years, but still remembers the day he came to Bahrain at the end of the 30's! I asked him many times about those claims about the Huwala, (BTW he doesn't call us Huwala, he uses the original naming "Khodmoni") and he was always laughing on it.

Despite that my grandpa didn't ever even try to speak or comment on the Arabs and politics in Bahrain, the Arab Nationalism Movement was active that time, and it's people were so racist on The Persians in Bahrain both Sunni and Shia, they were even attacking the Persian bakeries sometimes and you can ask about that since your in Bahrain, head for inside Manama if you wanna know more, that time even the Arab Nationalsim were doing research on who was pure Arab and who's not, obviously if were Arab we wouldn't be under attack!

Yes we are Janahis, and my Grandpa was forced to delete the name "Janahi" from our Family name at that time when he arrived here, and he put instead "Abdul Rahman" to obtain a passport, this story was in the1940's! and he still has the very first passport of Bahrain under the name "Government of Bahrain and it's followers".

According to him, he was born in Iran, and had also an Iranian passport. But to escape military service and look for a better job and life, he left Iran to Bahrain to join the other poor departing Holis. On that time the villages of Iran were extremely poor in the Shah's era, they had no electricity and no water.

Like many other Huwala back then, before departing to Bahrain he -like many- didn't have a family nickname back then, because in Iran it's forbidden for most people to have a village reference on the family name so they can separate families and races, so he had an official nick name giving by the goverment of Iran: "Bedroud" which means in Persian " The Victorious!" and you can still go there in Fares and ask the government about their system which am sure you know nothing about like me in the past!

In Iran if they even suspected your that your not Persian, they will change everything about you and maybe kick you out! If not, they won't grant you a Persian family name. A good prove that you can check in wikipedia it self is by clicking on the link: "Bandar Lenga", which was a port and had Arabs at the past like Al Tamimi as Bastaki said, and some other families whom were "real" Huwala, but all were departured by an order from the Shah of Iran in the start of 20 century. They were always going there either for having a cool vacation or hunting instead of hunting in the desert and you can read books about this!

4) You said that we were from Saudi Arabia right? and went to the shores of Iran? well first Bastaki gave you a good answer that our villages are "deep inside" Iran and not on shore, but I assume maybe that you don't have any small idea about the Sunni Persian villages there in Fares. But you can check the villages on the famous Book "The history of Lenga" which also claims that we are Arabs and so much praise for us only for one reason...that we are are Sunnis and naturally we are so kind heartedas written in the introduction. And The author is a religious Shaika of U.A.E (Kamla bent Abdullah ben Ali Al Qasemi) which is well known to support the Sunnis in everything! and her proves weren't right about us being Arabs, and I'll tell you why now next.

But before that your proves are only claims from books dear friend, they have no strong geographical, historical and race proves. Am talking here about a map, tradition, history and race which can be still noticed even in a minority of "Huwala" whom weren't influenced by the Arabs.

5) As you also claim that the Huwala left Arabia to Persia, ok may A ask why exactly did they chose a village very deep inside the Iranian borders and behind the mountains? ( perhaps they had over bill on Electricity service and wanted to run away from Arabia? or it was too hot there in the desert perhaps? ) also by the time you say they went there to teach Quran OR the sunni faith, Iran was already Sunni religious or Islamic by that time and didn't need anybody! ( and still they don't).

I always knew that people from outside Arabia were departing to Arabia not the opposite, to learn Islam and many other things like Hajj palamrage. And one other big example is "Salman the Persian" who aided prophet Muhammad in many battles, and was hated by the Persians because he converted to Islam, and had strong friendship and relationship with Arabs that time!

6) About that we are originally Saudi's too, I believe that every family, people or race, when they immerge to some other new places, they leave traces behind! Some people or marks, but may I ask you dear Holi friend where are those marks?

I don't think that there is something called " The lost Cities of The Huwala " or perhaps "The hiding treasures of The Huwala civilizations" ???? I really don't mean any disrespect sir by this, but I do believe that every tribe or family when it leaves for some other place, it leaves some family or tribe members behind or a historical place as well as historical marks? but where are those marks in Saudi Arabia? you wanna tell me maybe we had tribes there? well I didn't ever hear that there was Bani-Bastak or Perhaps Bani-Khonj as well as Bani-Janah! or Perhaps Al-Awwadh, or Al Khanajwah! And to those who claim that prophet Muhammad ordered us to leave Saudi Arabia to Persia: Where is this order? and in what Hadeeth? also I have never heard that prophet Muhammad had any relationship with the Janahi or Koheji family hat time!

However the most famous Arab families in the Arabian countries, those whom stayed and those who left their countries all have traces and marks behind them, but where is ours? and even if there was it can't be a village or family, because our family names are in Persians which makes it "no way" to be in Arabia! And by the way the term Holi they use in Saudi Arabia dear sir is obvious due to many reasons, first because the huwala went to live in Saudi Arabia as first people, second they had many big business there, and third if you met people who told you this, I too have been told that the Huwala there were also Ajams but Sunnis, and were " Methawlen " from Fares to Arabia! so who's correct now? of course neither of us is right perhaps, but I have historical proves from Wikipedia it self token from the "Iran" link itself, about the Persian history and it's empire as well as race and where they have immigrated, but am afraid you don't.

7) I think you were so in rush to accuse this article as mistake, not only bastaki explained to you the blood genetic changing thru the generations but he also told you about our accent or dialect.

Speaking about our dialect, I see that you didn't mention it, why? Obviously because you know nothing about it and don't speak it dear sir, nor you understand it sadly. Because if you were, you wouldn't accuse my information to be wrong like how you did. Our Dialect dear sir, has so much old Persians words, and I have chosen some examples because proudly my father taught me how to be Persian since I was a kid and I speak many other accents including the current official Persian Language (Irani).

So I knew how to campare and which word to chose. And if you saw or asked about my examples, you'll discover officially that they are sooo old, old enough that it was used before the arrival of Islam in Persia! so now dear sir, how in the hell we had this Language? you wanna tell me perhaps our Arab ancestors were teaching the old Persians how to enter Islam and they learnt it? oh c'mon!

8) About the books you were talking about, all of them which you mentioned claim that we are Arabs, thats right. But on the other hand it is as Bastaki said, they say all of those villages include Arabians, which is very wrong, perhaps you should read about the author (whom didn't have any strong prove as Bastaki said) see about his life, because I too now days can write a book dear friend and claim to be European, only because I have a very white skin and honey eyes! instead of reading this, go and read the history of Persia, ask about the name of your original ancestor village then search the map! or why not visiting Iran itself? I did that and they laughed on these claims, so who's right now?

9) I repeat that I went to Iran myself, the huwala or "Sunni Persians" villagers refuse to be called Arab! despite that they are still very poor and are a Sunni minority but they admit proudly to be Persians! Why don't you travel there and ask? plus one of my sources was an Iranian history teacher in the University of Tehran I met him by chance, and he also confirmed my information! you see, I made a research dear friend, not just talking rubbish!

10) Genetically, did you ever see a pure Arabian race person, who has a fair hair and green or blue eyes? as well as white skin, so white as European? I don't think it can be possible if you read about genetics and races.(Persians are from Aryan race which is mixed with Europeans too).

If you don't know anything about this then you don't know the ethnicity of the Arab race dear friend! Don't tell me they got mixed because this isn't a an excuse for very large, big huwala families, all of them have pretty girls and handsome men! which look like Persians allot, just you let them wear Persians costumes and see! would you recognize them or not?

11) About the Persian Families, I didn't lie about anything. You go and read about the Khonji from the Khonj village and the others, they were already written as a part of Iran in Wikipedia, and I have put some information about them in my article dear. The only true thing I agree about about Arabs in Iran, is that they are either in Ahvaz near Iraq or in Bandar Lengeh and Cherakh because the latter 2 were ports.

And you said yourself dear that they were their trading. But for your information dear, historically, the Arabs were always in Iran to do shopping usually not to sell that much, and the economic history of the two people shows always Iran to be the productive and most neighboring countries to be consumers usually!

Another thing which i wrote and was deleted is about the Sunni Persian Families in Bahrain! Yes I'll tell you a list of them with pleasure dear sir:

Koheji, Fakhru,Khouri, Ansari, Rostomani, Awwadhi, Kanoo, Janahi, Behdehi, Faramarzi, Fikri, Badri, Awazi, Khaja, Kazem, Estadi, Qasimi, Anwahi, Bukash (also know as Al wardi), Falaknaz, Mo'aiad, Karmostaji (also known as Zainal), Bastaki, Khameri, Gawdai, Herangi,Merbatti (cousins and descendants of the Janahi Family) Gerashi (converted to Shia), Kashfi, Sedhei and Kato.

There is also the Abbassi family, however half of them admit of being Persians while the others suggest that they are decendandts of Al Abbas (Prophet Muhammad's uncle.

Al Galadari village descendants meanwhile have more controversial history, they originaly come from Galadar in Iran, half of them are Shia and the the other are Sunnis and they both speak the same accent, however the Sunnis deny that they are Persians and demand to be called Arabs instead, they even changed the name from "Galadari" into "Al Qaladari" to sound more Arabic, and most of the latter are relegious Sunni people.

12) YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING, because we are Sunnis and have many clerics many of us believe that being Arab is being "Sacred, Special or Holy", many believe that we have a better chance to be selected by God to be sent to heaven, many believe being Persian isn't good as Arab, many believe that this means to be near she Shia Persians, and the latter people are "kofar" or "Rafedha" compare to the Sunnis sadly, which means their chance to be in heaven is slim! I repeat, being Arab won't grant you special ticket to heaven! Being Arab doesn't mean that your Ancestor was a friend of Prophet Muhammad or "Al Sahabbah"! and therefore God won't forgive your Sins more easily!

13) I wan't to make this clear that I Am not against Arabs at all !! I am Bahraini and really love my people and country more than my ancestors land Iran, but it's very bad and a shame for a person to change his origin for some stupid proves or a certain mentality.

14) The only mistake in my article I admit else of grammar perhaps, is that I don't have any official reference. That is true, although I read many history books but I found out that already in wikipedia there is enough history information about Persia (Iran) and how it had all of the Persian gulf and countries under it's control during the Persian empire era, you can also check the race of Persians (Aryan race) to know the truth about our looks and skin. Also notice that our actions, productive life and thinking is very different from the Arabs, the Arabs have their own history and culture, we have our own, and the Persian civilization has it's own history, the Arabs have their own "perfect Language" which is Arabic, the Language of Quran, yet it was also the Persians who adjusted it to be like the current form, by putting the points!

15) Another small point, you go and meet the local Persian Bakeries (Khabaz) yourself. And see how they are pure Sunni Persians and Bahrainis too and nothing is wrong with that, yet he refuses to claim being Arab, and hold tightly to his Persian roots. (many of them are from the Herangi family which are living and acting like Arabs today!).

And by the start of 20'th century the Sunni Persians bakeries were always under racism acts from the local Arabs despite agreeing to let their "Beautiful daughters" get married from local Arab country men like the other "khodmoni" families were accepting, and you can ask about this sir!

16) As Bastaki said:

" I can explain one thing here for all of you. The term Hwala refers to 7 Arabian tribes that moved from the Arabian Peninsula towards the Persian coasts of the gulf. These tribes are Al Hammadi, Al Ali, Al Abeidli, Al Nasri, Al Mharrami, Al Marzoogi, & Al Tamimi. Nevertheless, those tribes also interacted with Persians of the Persian coasts, and thats where they got influenced softly by the Persian culture, but as a matter of fact they remain Arabs, and they spoke Arabic, and practised Arabic traditions. Note that their history of immigration and residency in Persia lasted for less than 250 years."

You were right in this dear friend, and as everybody can notice ( I mean the people from Bahrain ), those families are different from the famous Huwala Families we have! As I said before, why no body talks about the Gerashi family? they aren't Ajams,  they are Huwala like us and have our same dialect and traditions, but just converted into Shia less than 100 years ago! since then thy were referred as Ajams, and obviously it was about the faith not origin as I mentioned! See Bastaki is from Dubai, I even suspect he's from Ajman, because most of the Persians are there. The Bastaki family still have the same Persian tradition, my mother is half Bastakey and they still speak the dialect and have the same culture and tradition in marriages! which of course shows how much the Arabs had an influence on us dear sir with all due respect to you and our dear Arab brothers god bless them inshala.

17) Finally, I am Persian Bahraini, and so proud of that! and as Bastaki said, our history is SO SO SOO BIG IF YOU WANNA COMPARE IT TO ANYTHING! I advice anyone who doesn't believe this story, to go to Iran itself and visit the villages there which still they exist (and I don't know why they are still there in case many kind people claim that we are Arabs and have returned to our home in Arabian Peninsula! though the ticket from Iran to Bahrain is very cheap if they intend to return!) Go there and listen to the accent and read about it: why do we speak a very old Language more older than the current Persian one? why is it more than 3000 years old?! why are we the only people to hold such accent? and more than that which makes me laugh: Why in the hell our dialect doesn't have so much Arabic words though you people claim we are originally Arabs, and speak Arabic better than the ajams?!! why does the Ajam's dialect and the current official Irani Language have more Arabic words than us?!! thought they are Pure Persians - non Arab - and Shia Muslims?! perhaps you wanna tell me that they had more Islamic influence than us?! and WE are the original muslim Arabs departed to Persia itself?

If you knew how to speak Persian and learnt it's beauty you'd know what I am talking about Dear Holi, but you just admitted  that you know nothing about the Persian Language. I advice you to try to learn it even if you still wanna hold into your Arab roots as you claim, believe me you'll discover new things. But if all of this didn't convince you, you are free to do what you want to do, and think how you wanna think dear, because there are many people like you that wanna change their races and convert on being Arab. I personlay don't see anything wrong with that and it's none of my business, but I don't like someone to speak wrong history on behalf of everyone.

18) Am sorry if I was rude in any manner, but this issue and the claims that we are Arabs makes me sick, at the end it's up to everybody to be whom they wanna be. I guess it depends on the influence around you, but here in wikipedia you write official history and information. If not official, at least it should convince everybody, you don't write what you think or what people may say especially if you didn't know enough information about the other opposite side. I think being religious especially being Sunni and have a big influence from the Arabs is the main reason. (and the religious people of Saudi Arabia are the main reason for this, because their country is the heart of the Sunni faith, and they are Arabs). In reality I think its a conflict over the faith more than the origins or race.

Best wishes

Francesco Totti —Preceding unsigned comment added by Francesco totti (talk • contribs) 22:41, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Bastaki
Dear Totti, I'm the Bastaki guy, can you please contact me on my e-mail, I would like to share other stuff with you azezam.

maa1441@gmail.com

Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.42.21.156 (talk) 07:06, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

THE TRUTH AND AWARENESS
FIRST WHY DID THE HUWALA LEAVE IRAN,

YEAR 900 HEJRYA THE SAFAWEE EMPIOR WAS REISING AND ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE SHAH AND NOT EVEN WITH IRANY BLOOD (( YES THERE SHAH IS AFGANISTANY)) 30,000 DIED FOR THE CRIME OF HAVING A SUNNI NAME OMAR, OTHMAN, ETC. IN TOTAL OF THIS BRUTIAL ACT 250,000 PEOPLE DIED YES ALL SUNNI AND HUWALA.

(( ANY SUNNI THAT IS PROUD HE IS IRANI OR WITH IRANI ORIGENS IS A DICRACE TO HIS FAMILY AND HIS GRANDFATHERS WHO DIED IN THIS UN HUMAN ACT. AND ISA DICARCE TO ALL HOLIS... SO PLEASE IF YOU ARE THAT PERSON I DONT MEAN DISREPECT I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT IRAN DOESNT WANT YOU AND IT WILL NEVER WILL SO WHY BE PROUD OF SOMETHING THAT IS NOT PROUD OF YOU))

SO PLEASE EVERYONE WHO READS THIS CONSEDRE THAT FACT THAT HUWALAS ARE ARABS AND SUNNIS AND THEY ARE PROUD TO BE ARABS AND NOT PERSIANS AND I WILL NEVER BE PERSIANS SIMPLE THEY ARE ARABS WHO LEFT AND CAME BACK.

To the previous post of "TRUTH AND AWARNESS"
First of all, you need to fix your English language. Now regarding our subject, I have no idea where you get your information, but as a matter of fact, Sunnis in Iran did face a lot of hard time in the past, also still they are being discriminated. Shah Pahlavi was secular in all aspects, he was not siding the shiites nor sunnis.

1) Huwala is a new term, it has no proper record in history. If you want to manipulate history, then you failed. This term was found recently by nationalistic Arabs who tried to Arabise the Sunni Ajams (Persians), since we represent a huge population compared to the Arabs in some very hot spots in the Persian Gulf region such as Dubai city, as well as Bahrein and Kuwait. We are the ones who got proper history, culture, and aspects of life style, thus the Arabs wanted to swallow us into them to take all the pride under their name. For example, the Badgir architecture which is pure Persian that us Sunni Ajams braught with us to the gulf region, yet the Arbas today claim its "Arabic", which is obviously WRONG!

2) We call each other "Khodmooni", which means "one of us". This is the alternative term we use. Holi was NEVER used between us. If we really we called "Holy" then why don't our fellows in Iran call themselves that? As a matter of fact, all Bastakis, Janahis, Evazis, Khonjis, etc in Iran they are very proud for their Persian backgrounds and they never accept the "Arabian" background theory that is only discussed by loser Khodmooni here who try to be Arab. The source that you and your father originated from rejects your false theories regarding the "Holy" term, so who are you to judge??

3) Sunni Persians are very loyal to their countries, UAE, Bahrein, Kuwait, and Qatar. They are from Persian backgrounds and proud of it, yet they got no loyality to Iran as a state. They don't belong to the country of Iran anymore, but they are only linked via their language and culture/traditions. Its an honour and highly respected for a person to be proud of his own backgrounds, but its a huge mistake to mix up between being proud of your identity and your loyality to your country.

4) You will ALWAYS remain an AJAM in the eyes of Arabs, even if you rip yourself apart to prove you are an "Arab", but you will always remain the son of the Persian immigrants who left Iran to Bahrein.

5) The Persian identity should never be mixed with the faiths of Sunnis and Shiite. There are Israelis from Hebrew backgrounds, but they are Muslims! So can we just deny their Israeli backgrounds just because they are Muslims and not Jewish?

6) If you want to be an Arab, please feel free to fix a tent in front of your house and drink camels milk everyday and dance in the desert all you want, but never talk on behalf a whole community.

7) Who are you to judge that Iran wont accept us? Why do you even think that we want to go back there? Do you think we share a desire of going back to Iran after living for many generations here in our newly formed cities of the Persian Gulf one which we played a huge role in establishing it? Go read the history of this region properly, and know who really owns the pride and credit!

8) When you talk, please try to base your information on proper references. The Safavid dynasty did carry out huge attacks on the Sunni Persians to force them convert to Shiite, but guess what? They also collaborated with the Shiite Arabs to force Persians convert from Sunnism to Shiism. I guess you missed to mention this fact about Arabs!

9) You need to act with a better attitude than attacking people randomly.

10) We are Sunni Persians, proud of it to the core. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.69.1.21 (talk) 19:26, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed changes
This subject's too important to be left in its current state. Its too long, too diffuse and too confused. I propose to shorten it & provide:


 * A better explanation on this page of the nature of the argument about Huwala identity. Essentially, explain that their identity is contested and provide a clearer explanation of how.
 * An expansion of the information on the importance of the Huwalas in the Persian Gulf today - business, politics, social intellectuals etc.
 * A new "History of the Huwala" page which will specifically address their role in the history of the Persian Gulf.
 * Possibly a new page providing a "List of Huwala families". Although this is a controversial subject, and the list of families on this page seems to have been the subject of an edit war. Any views?

There seem to be a lot of sources on the Huwalas' role in the eighteenth century to the present, but very little about their early history. Can anyone help here by suggesting any? It would be appreciated. As would any feedback on the above proposals.

Dilmun (talk) 11:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Good points. This also needs to be referenced properly. This site is fairly well referenced and is a good starting point if someone has access to that information. --Arabbi (talk) 17:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

A reply to proposed changes
Well I do thank you over your proposed changes comment. I am the one who actually wrote all this article. Althought you were right about the demands you suggested, but the problem is not with the points i wrote about. It's about the people who would accept this. About the Huwala families Page, cuation will be needed as well as facts and proves from the internet, which they don't happen to be easy to find if we considered writing about all the Huwala.

And speaking about the Huwala article, I know its long dear, but it doesnt make any confusion as you said. I think if it was really confused and unclear, the main reason for this would be the title it self .. i.e "Huwala". Of course here comes a question, The "Huwala" naming to whom it does belong? to the arabs or to the sunni Persians? thats the confusing thing i assume, but i guess it belongs to the arabs, since they left arabia to Persia, then returend back, and I did mention their family names. and here comes another problem: I really don't think that this article is popular one yet, for that if many Sunni Persians (or those who claim they are also huwala despite being Persians) saw this article they'd complain about it and maybe delete it, and thats why i was always cheking on it, because this accident happend before, and they deleted all of my work which was based on true facts sadly. And then fights and arguments happend above this page if everybody noticed, but then, I proudly succeded on writing and adjusting the article to be almost Perfect.

I Think also that a solution can be done without much extra work, which is to write a new seperated article page under the title of "Sunni Persians", this idea would fit the bill i assume.

Theonly strong extra proves of the Sunni Persians (which i am one of them) is to pay a visit to Faris provence in iran to colect data, it will be intresting and i did do this research but from Shiraz last time i went there.

But for god's sake who would go all this way to travel there, and drive for hours between the villages just to collect historical and genes data for an article in a site which can be edited anytime anywhere, and by anyone?

For that cause i thought that this article should be understood by common sense, and by those who live between the two descendants. If we made a seperate page, it would be a good move, but again believe me, there are many many historically-uneducated sunni Persians family members who would argue on this! and claim they are arabs! but the top solution in my opinion would be to check the blood and DNA of any person who has doubts over his blood, which is now availabe around the world, and if the result proved to confirm whether he was Persian or Arab, it will not be the fault of scinece, neither this page! and as my friend bastaki said, that every four generations, the blood mixture changes compleetly.

I really don't think this article is long with due respect, i think otherwise sometimes, i think it's short and can have much quality in writing and pictures than this, but if you want to put a picture, be sure that it will be controversial! as many who know that person will argue about his or their blood! I repeat lastly, that i wrote this article this long only to present evey tiny prove of the Huwala and Sunni Persians history and compared points and life style. which you can check and ask by the way if you were a Sunni Persian or had any doubts anyways, plus many of my family members are well known Sunni Persian businessmen around the GCC countries, but I cant put their pictrues and Life and start controversy, because despite the proves and facts, maybe they won't appreciate such action. To me this is a historical Genetic data more than it's about family issues and fame as well as reputation. any futher ideas please contact me on my e-mail:

h.totti10@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by H. Totti (talk • contribs) 16:11, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

to Bastakey
!

we are now arab not persians

we love Sunni arab and Sunni arab love us and live with them in peace in arabia and marrige with them

but persians shia hate us very much and call us the arab beacuse we are sunii !!!

if sunny islam means arab ok we are arab !

حبيبي بستكي

اترك القوميه جانبا وحاول ان تعيش مع اخوتك العرب السنه بسلام الفرس وللاسف الشديد لا يعترفون بكوننا من اصل فارسي سني بل يعتبرونا عرب بسبب مذهب السني

اخي الكريم

لن تكسب الفرس بقولك هذا فهم يعتبرون التشيع من ضمن اساسيات القوميه الفارسيه ولكنك حتما ستخسر العرب السنه الذين تعيش في بلادهم يعني لن تطول بلح الشام ولا عنب اليمن

اخوك العوضي

A Comment to my Awadhi Friend
إلى أخي الكريم العوضي

تحية طيبة وبعد ،،،

عزيزي العوضي عذرا بس لاحظت اني اكتب بالعربي لربما يكون أحسن من ناحية جوابي على رأيك ياصديقي العزيز ..

أنا اللي أساسا كاتب هالموضوع عن الهولة والخودمونية في ويكي، لكني مب آخر واحد سوا في تعديلات عن منيرة فخرو وغيرها والبلدان اللي احنه موجودين فيها وهاي أصلا صعب أنعرفه بسبب التشابك الغريب بين الطائفتين العرب والفرس المهاجرين من ايران بغض النظر عن الأسباب.

صديقي العزيز انه مادري وين راح رفيقي البستكي انه مجاوبك مع اني كلمته من فترة أبخصوص أن يرد ويناقشك فيها، بس انه بما اني من ضمن أعضاء فريق النقاش السلمي اهني، اسمحلي انه اشرح وجهة نظري.

كان حلوة ملاحظتك بشأن رأي الشيعة عنه وتعاطف الفرس وانه اوقف معاك فيها. بس عزيزي هاي اللي انت قاعد تشرحه اهوة مشكلة اجتماعية بغض النظر عن اسبابها الكثيرة، ومايصير أتخليها في موسوعة رسمية ضخمة جدا على الانترنت بسبب هاي الاسباب واتقول انه احنه أحين عرب. احنه اخوي مب عرب احنه فرس حتى النخاع ولكننا واقفين في صف اخوانه العرب السنة بسبب الضغط، واللي يتبرى من أصله نذل يا صديقي العزيز مع احترامي العميق لكل اخواني الفرس من كله الطائفتين، وفي نفس الوقت اللي يهاجم شخص بسبب اختلاف مذهبة سواء كان اهوة سني او شيعي فهاي انسان متخلف مايفهم لا في الدين ولا في الاخلاق والتربية. شوف طريقتي احين في الشرح اتراويك انه هاي مشكلة دينية واجتماعية بينما الموقع أهني يعترف باللاشياء العلمية والتاريخية المسجلة فقط وان كان فيها صراحة بعض التحريف ولكن هاي يرجع لحرية التصحيح اهني.

انه اخوي مالومك على رأيك، بس انت علميا مايصير اتقول احنه أحين صرنه عرب! اجتماعيا وتربويا تقدر اتقول هلون أي، لكن علميا ووراثيا هاي شي مستحيل اخوي! وفي نفس الوقت احب اقولك تره احنه مانبي لا عطف الفرس ولا الشيعة ولا السنة ولا غيرهم ولا نبي انسوي شريحة جديدة من المجتمع لانه احنه كلنه مسلمين اصلا واساس التفرقة الطائفية في دينا ترجع لسببين واللي اهوة اعداء الاسلام من برع الدين، او الناس المسلمين اللي يبون يتمون في مراكزهم بأستخدام التفرقة وفيهم سنة وشيعة على فكرة، مب الرسول ولا اهل بيته ولا صحابته و لا اهل السلف.

احنه اهني اخوي للأسف حاولنه انه وصديقي البستكي انه نبعد المذهب قدر الإمكان من هذا الموضوع العلمي لكن بعد صار معيار مهم للناس! بعدين اخوي أنت من قالك انه الشيعة يكرهوننا؟ المتخلفين منهم أي، واحنه مانكرهم بس متخلفينه أي! اكو روح شوف قرانه في إيران بانيين لهم شوارع اشكثر بس معتقد انك حتى زرتهم او اتعرف عنهم الكثير يمكن، وفي مشهد وقم في اشكثر سنة مناك ولا احد حتى يسألك انت شنو! ولو بتثير هالنقاط عندهم الناس ملت من هالاشياء! لا قط سمعنه انه سني انظلم مناك أو قتل مثل ما الناس اتقول بس احنه شعوبنه اتكبر المساءل للأسف!

بالنسبة حق اخوانه العرب اخوي فانه معاك! انه على فكرة وصديقي البستكي مانعتبر روحنه أجانب مني ولا العرب أجانب! انه بحريني واعتز ابوطني، لكني ما انسه بعد أصلي من أي بلد واللي يعتبر بلدي الثاني بس مب وطني وبيتي! بالنسبة لحب العرب لنه بقولك شي مع احترامي لك ولهم، معيار حبهم لنه تره يعتمد على التربية والتخلف اشلون معاه، لكن مع احترامي لك اهمة بعد فيهم وايد عنصرية ملحوظة علينه للحين وكل ما استغنو ازيادة يطنزون علينه مجرد مذهبنة المشترك يخليهم يتعاطفون معانه واشكالنه الجميلة وعملنه الكادح! هاي انه اكلمك من ناحية اذا ماحبونه بس فيهم ناس من ناحية ثانية اهمة اهلي واصدقائي احطهم على جرحي يبرد!

شوف عزيزي اكررلك انه هاي مب مشكلة اصل وطائفة اذا اتشوف رايك فهي مشكلة اجتماعية مب علمية انه انحطها في في هالموضوع او نقتنع فيها يا صديقي العزيز. بعدين بالنسبة لاستخدام كلمة اخوان فحتي الشيعة اخوانه مهما يكون لانه دينه واحد وهاي المهم، وبالنسبة لذكر الزواج فاحنه ناخذ منهم وياخذون منه بشكل كثير وايد وليما صار حب حقيقي بين اثنين من معدن اصيل مايهم لا المذهب ولا الدين اخوي.

انه حطيت ايميلي فوق اذا بغيت اتناقشني في شي حياك في أي وقت واقدر ادليك على البستكي لانه فاضي اكثر مني وشغله في الحياة هاي المواضيع الاصولية!

والسلام عليكم والرحمة ،،،

Janahisworld@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by H. Totti (talk • contribs) 15:06, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

إلى العوضي ..

لقد سبق لي أن ناقشت معك الموضوع تكرارا و مرارا، و لكن الغريب في الأمر انك ترفض أن تقر بالواقع و من ثم تتهمني بأني شيعي و أتّبع التقيا و هذا الإتهام باطل تماما و مردود عليك.

حجّتك ضعيفة جدا و موقفك من القضية ليس فيه شيء من الكرامة إطلاقا.

أنت تعلم جيدا أن فارس و الفرس جميعهم كانوا على المذهب السني و الإمام أبوحنيفة كان فارسيا و هو مؤسس أحد أكبر المذاهب السنية الأربعة و ناهيك عن تاريخ الفرس الذين كانوا الرواد دائما بما يتعلق بأمور الدين و العلوم الإسلامية. فلماذا لا تفتخر بانتمائك الى ذلك الشعب؟؟ هل بعت كل هذه الأمجاد لأن معظم الفرس اليوم تحولوا الى المذهب الشيعي؟ و أنت تعلم جيدا كيف أن الفرس اضطهدوا بشكل فظيع جدا و ارهبوا و قامت قوات القزلباش التركية بسفك دماء الشعب الفارسي لكي يرغموهم على التشيع و هربت اعداد كبيرة من الفرس الى دولة العثمانيين و غيره من الدول المجاورة. إذا التاريخ الشيعي في فارس بدأ من عند الصفويين الأتراك و جنود القزلباش. إذا الشعب الفارسي كان ضحية و انت تعلم هذا. و اليوم الحكومة الايرانية تستغل الدين لكي تستخف بعقول الشعب المغلوب على امره و هذا امر يثير الشفقة تجاه الشعب الايراني الفارسي.

و انت حضرتك لو كنت فعلا تعتز بأصلك الفارسي فانظر إلى نفسك و اجعل العالم ينظر اليك بصورة الفارسي السني الصامد في وجه الطغيان و الظروف العصيبة التي مر بها أهل السنة في فارس، فهذا خيرا لك من أن تتبرأ من أصلك و تتلصق بشعب اخر كالعرب.

العرب اخواننا في الدين و في اللغة و الوطن و لكن هذا لا يلغي هويتنا العرقية. و المثل يقول ان اللي يتبرا من أصله ردي. و اذا انت حاب انك تكون ردي، فرجاء استمتع بالرداءة وحدك و لا تلزم الاخرين في ان يتبعوا منهجك الركيك.

أنا لا أحابب النظام الديني في ايران بل أنا أكرره و أتمنى زواله و أتمنى ترجع فارس على المذهب السني كما كانت و لكن في جميع الأحوال أنا لا أحتاج أن أتطاول على الشيعة بألفاظ قبيحة كي أثبت لأمثالك ولائي للمذهب السني، لأنك حتى لو كنت تبي تكسب الاخرين فخذهم بالكلمة الطيبة بدلا من أسلوب الهجوم.

اعتزازنا بأصلنا الفارسي لا ينقص من وطنيتنا لأوطاننا الخليجية بل نحن متشبثون بأرضنا الخليجية و لن نتخلى عنها حتى لو عادت ايران الى المذهب السني فسيظل انتمائي لبلدي الخليجي. أعتقد نحن ناقشنا هذا الموضوع كثيرا و ترا السالفة ما ترزا.

اذا حضرتك تبي تسوي عمرك عربي فرجاء انسى في يوم من الايام انك من اصل فارسي و شوف لك اسم قبيلة عربية و حطها بدال العوضي لأن أهل عوض (اوز) في ايران ما يشرفهم واحد متبري من اصله مثلك. و رجاء لا تتكلم بالنيابة عنا لأننا نحن فخورين بهويتنا السنية الفارسية و انشالله نحن نكون النواة التي ترجع فارس الى المذهب السني.

انتهى! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.69.1.22 (talk) 19:43, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Done Deal!
Sorry i know most of you tried your best to explain everything about huwala people and maybe some people took that and accepted everything you said but im really sorry to say this but lots of us dont agree about what bastaki or janahi said. I want to point out something to you who are proud to be from iran and say that your history is big. Does anyone care that the history is big? are you going to be someone important because of that? Put this in your mind, nobody cares if the history is big, even iran doesnt want you.

I am holi but im arab. Im living in ba7rain and my blood is red, this country or even UAE or Kuwait or Qatar or KSA has to be where you come from and not what you think you are. Im sure most of your father's were born in those GCC countries, maybe your grandfather's were from out but finish you cant say your from iran.

Im proud to be Bahraini and will give everything to this country until i die, i dont care about iran and i will never put my feet in that country. If there is anything i can do to take myself away from anything thats iran, then i would even if it will cost me money, because nobody will take my identity from my real country and thats Bahrain.

You said in your comment that the bahrain ruling family were not from here, what do you mean by that? I have a comment to make, sh. mohammed bin rashed al maktoum, dont you think he's light colored? dont you think he's holi? or what about the rulers of Ras Al Khaiama and Sharjah, al Qassami family? arent they holi too? or the ruler of fujairah also.. dont base it on color my friend because if thats the case then that means most of the uae rulers for most of the emirates are holi too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mympire (talk • contribs) 21:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to tell you this, but soon people who say they are holi and are from the new generation meaning born in the 1980, 1990, 2000, will compleletly move away from being holi and you will see that most people will never even talk the language again, and to be honest im happy that this is happening.

About the janahi dude, i know someone from the janahi family both mother and father are from janahi, do you know how the children look? dark, NOWAY you can tell they are janahi, they look pure arab. they speak perfect arabic, and you know what else? they dont understand a single word of holi(thank god for that)

The last thing i want to say is that i will never accept myself as from iran and even if you keep writing and writing trying to make us accept what happened before, we are now from the country we live in. We have the passport, we talk the langauge. Nobody will change me and the people who are like me. We are bahraini and arab and proud to be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mympire (talk • contribs) 19:47, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me?!
Hello, I just came here by chance to check something, and yet what did I see, ANOTHER GUY with the same nonsense.

listen o5oi, I'll tell you something, when your up to add some information here, don't waste the hard work of some people here who broke their backs for this issue to teach you and the rest what's history!

And by the way, when you want to refer to someone at wikipedia, or any other official site, you should not use the term dude, plus if you claim your Arab, why would you use the term dude?

See, I respect people's opinions when they discuss a historical matter or any other opinion, of course if they had proves too that is, but to come here and delete what we have done like this, just because your brains aren't accepting the historical facts or social idea on who you are originally, is not our problem.

Again and again I have to explain, but sorry this time I won't! what you just deleted and your reaction shows that you know nothing, plus never read English it seems!

We did not say we love Iran, and we wrote it in Arabic and English! If You wish me to come to your place personally and tell you about it in person, I have no problem with that brother! But to come here and accuse us on some stupid and REPEATED accusations and reasons is something really foolish with that very bad manner of yours!

I will tell you what, my grandfather, a pure Janahi, is dark, my father is dark too, but it doesn't mean that they are arabs! AND they speak Persian and are proud of it. This all proves that you know absolutely nothing even about Iran the land you hate, and btw? The menawi people and ajams whom are dark, are arabs too you mean to say?!! Just because they don't speak what you HATE!?? Have you been to Iran before?! did you see the skin there? no you havn't you have just opened a door for yourslef closing this point, saying i know nothing neither i wanna know or put my feet there, well then don't, thats your loss, not Iran's loss! Do you even know that iran has a desert and it's own bedouin people? am sure you don't either upon this wise reaction of yours.

If the family such as yours or that gentleman, wanted to "burry" their origins, it doesn’t mean they generally succeeded at that. Neither that your personally right to say what you just said! We have explained here, the religion, the history, the proves the whatever you want and the love of our GCC countries, yet you come and say some very very untrue things which surely proves that you don't even read what is written here at all, who the hell are you just to jump and delete what we have done!? If you wan't too I can consult a big moderator here from this site, to research and review this article and see what's wrong.

Plus, about the royal family, yes they aren't from here originally, and by the way, I didn't invent that, they gave us these things at school If you remember! and even those latter people i mentioned are proud of their bedouin origins and culture, but what about your kind, you already have some weak known roots, and now your making it more and more weaker, which means according to your "predications" of the holi race, that after 2000 or end of the 90's we're are all arabs, and have no clear identity even! since when the Aryan Persian race was in your hands or in your generation or whatever just because you don't like it?!

This land was under many countries before including Iran, and if you ignorant people hate that country, it's not the fault of the history to be accused and reversed by your kind in such a respected place as this site. When someone wants to prove something about religion, history and ethnicity dear fellow, he has to know the full information available about the "Counter" or "other" part which he wants to join or get distinguished from! Not to accuse from just one side and on no convincing proves at all like yours and the rest we had here befroe with all due respect.

You don't speak Persian, you didn't read about it, you didn't’ visit Iran, you hate the people there it seems, you never research, and yet all this is because of the majority and propaganda in our country sadly, which is so open and mixed, yet it has a majority closed minded people who wan't to prove their loyality to the royal family, on a funny way, which is changing their blood. I advice you to scroll up and read again the facts and proves about what are we talking about, if you can’t handle whats going on because of the length, then that’s your own problem. Oh and I forgot, we and the dear readers of this mighty, great site, don't care what the next Holi Generation wan't to do in the next decades, as we trust the general political, economical and scinetific reaction of the world to change things, not being relegious and materialistic close minded starting from 2000 or whenever.

I repeat again and again, we love our countries even more than you and this case is not about nationalism neither relegion or faith. We don't love Iran neither their religion or faith or whatever or wan't to go there and benefit as you were saying, but we also know about our origins so well and are proud of it, if you, aw '3airak! Want to leave and abandon it, it's your choice but don't talk about others.

Maybe you have your own reasons not to like these origins issue, but that’s your choice! Plus, like bastaki said, whatever you do, to the arabs, your just an outsider no matter what you do, even if you were Holi arab, when you go near the pure arabs or sheikhs, your out, your as they call it "Sulkh"!Why? Because your just a dirty holi as they say.

Before I finish this nonsense, read again what we have written here for more than a year, and in the article, which is that when you join an ethincitiy, and get mixed up for more than 4 generations, your blood becomes like them! Which means, that even if you were arabs before or whatever, your already mixed and have Persian blood already! And speaking about sheikh Rashid ben maktoom, I don't know and am not sure about him, but since he is white doesn't mean he's Persian or Arab, them how come our king is white? What I know is the Al Qasemi are from Persian origins which they claim they are mixed with it now, but thats up to them, it's very hard to research on a royal ruling family because they are secretive and can easily change what they want honestly, whenever they wan't. But you have to know that WE are not the Huwala! We are Sunni Persians, the huwala are different. The huwala are indeed arabs who wen't their according to them and came back of the shores, while are normal Persians coming from our own far villages, so don't mix up please.

However Our king and his family have never been to Persia ever before for my information. So please people, stop covering facts and your ideas by making a big mess out of our skin colors. It's really funny because. I will put my old article, again and again and again until I die, and am a proud Bahraini from Persian origins, wether you and your type like it or not. H. Totti (talk • contribs) 19:23, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Unattributed Content
Hi All,

I'd like to remove the unattributed content on this page, but I'm being reverted. Does anyone have any references, and can anyone justify the inclusion of all the sunni arab material? Bladeofgrass (talk) 01:58, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Proposed mergers
Hi, Would anyone agree with merging the persian content to the Persian people article? It seems more appropriate to put it there because this article is about the Huwala.Bladeofgrass (talk) 23:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Hello
Bladeofgrass, I agree to put a copy there, but please give me some time to find a source for these informations. I believe that what you said is correct, that we should put this article there, and put a link to it here under "main article: Persians in GCC countries". But yet, we have to find sources as we discussed before, in which i am working on it with my friend. Plus, I repeat, that the Khonji family are Persians! and i have posted their location khunj in this article, so how come now the guy who did this claims there are arabs in and oman? Yes there are Persian people in Oman, but now he claims they are arabs!? and history shows that they come from the oldest city of the Majoos religion which it's history goes back to more than 2000 years ago? this is really funny. You know like I said before, I am not racist or have something against the arab people with due respect, but why do people change their origins, from Persians to Arab?!. H. Totti (talk) 5:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There are many things wrong with this article at the moment, which I believe has led to lots of arguments. You really should have a look at these Wikipedia policies:


 * WP:NOR: Wikipedia does not publish original thought: all material in Wikipedia must be attributable to a reliable, published source and articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not clearly advanced by the sources.
 * ie. If you want to say that the Khonji family are Persians, you need a source. If you don't, then it's really just your own opinion. Also have a look at:


 * WP:OWN: You do not own articles (nor templates and other features of Wikipedia). If you create or edit an article, know that others will edit it, and within reason you should not prevent them from doing so.
 * it is worth bearing this in mind when we try to reach a consensus about what should be on the page. And:


 * WP:COAT: A coatrack article is a Wikipedia article that ostensibly discusses the nominal subject, but in reality is a cover for a tangentially related bias subject. The nominal subject is used as an empty coatrack, which ends up being mostly obscured by the "coats".
 * This article is about the Huwala, but mainly discusses the 'common confusing with sunni persians'. This is why we should separate the material. Bladeofgrass (talk) 11:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't agree
Bladeofgrass, With all due respect I don't agree with couple of things you just said, you have edited my article, and removed things, due to the standards and rules you were talking, that's OK. But, you have removed the families i have put in here, and left the Arabian ones despite that they had no source to confirm them at all, also you have kept some information I HAVE posted regarding the common things with Persians, in which also had no source plus it was ABOUT Persians NOT Arabs which are the huwala, because they don't practice these things, nor they speak like that. I was writing culture proves and references on how to distinguish between the two immigrating parties, not that about the Arabs of which you are demanding to be the central of attention of this article, the latter demand however may be correct, but the method your using now is mixing up alot of things with due respect. Now, I agree that I should write a separate article about the Sunni Persians, no question about that. But there is one thing you mentioned wrong, you asked me you can't just write what you think about families right? and you have mentioned in particular the "Khonji" Family? I repeat, what I have said about the Khonjis, is not from my own imagination, it's from THIS SITE! here is the link: Khonj, and that guy who wrote this simply says that they are Arabs? I am starting to have my research now, and add or make an article about the Sunni Persians. But the problem is simply that our villages aren't easy to reach nor write about. I have tried to obtain information about our Persian villages from Wikipedia itself, but couldn't find anything yet, except maybe for one or 2 villages in which has a relationship with the families. (talk) H. Totti 11:00, 14 February 2009 (UTC)