Talk:Hwarang

Disbandment
When did the Hwarang officially disband?

Organization
We need sources about the organization and ranks of the Hwarang.

(No Title)
Added link to english translations of all the original sources on the Hwarang organisation: http://www.hwarangdo.com/hwarang.htm

Where did these "Hwarang code" come from?

"
 * 1) Loyalty to one's country - Il Sä Kun E Chung
 * 2) Loyalty to one's parents and teachers - E Sä Chin E Hyo
 * 3) Trust and brotherhood among friends - Säm Kyo Uoo E Shin
 * 4) Courage to never retreat in the face of the enemy - Sä Im Jun Moo Teah
 * 5) Justice never to take a life without cause - O Säl Säng U Teck"

http://dongacc.com/main/news/01040701.htm

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&#44148;&#44397;&#45824; &#44368;&#49688;(&#51221;&#52824;&#50808;&#44368;&#49324;)

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I have tried to make the article more neutral. This article looks like another attempt by the original author to denigrate Korean culture, and I have removed his more sensational comments. Furthermore, the fourth Buddhist precept for lay people is: Do not utter false speech. It is not: Do not retreat in war. --Sewing 00:26, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)


 * It it regretful that you think my edits is to denigrate Korean culture, but I'm just true to my research. It were Japanese who started to insist that Hwarang had been warriors. But when I read Samguk Sagi and Samguk Yusa, I found it quite doubtful. (If you find a sentence like "Hwarang practiced archery well", I will reconsider.) I put my current theory here (in Japanese) just a week ago. I will translate it into English soon.
 * And the the Buddhist precept I mentioned is Wongwan's version. Study more before editing. --Nanshu 00:52, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)


 * As for the Buddhist precept, if that's someone's version of it, please explain it in the text. Who was Wongwan?  Was he simply freely interpreting the Buddhist precepts?  --Sewing 10:49, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)


 * Quote from Samguk Yusa
 * &#20809;&#26352;&#12290;&#20315;&#25945;&#26377;&#33769;&#34217;&#25106;&#20854;&#21029;&#26377;&#21313;&#12290;&#33509;&#31561;&#28858;&#20154;&#33251;&#23376;&#12290;&#24656;&#19981;&#33021;&#22570;&#12290;&#20170;&#26377;&#19990;&#20439;&#20116;&#25106;&#12290;&#19968;&#26352;&#12290;&#20107;&#21531;&#20197;&#24544;&#12290;&#20108;&#26352;&#12290;&#20107;&#35242;&#20197;&#23389;&#12290;&#19977;&#26352;&#12290;&#20132;&#21451;&#26377;&#20449;&#12290;&#22235;&#26352;&#12290;&#33256;&#25136;&#28961;&#36864;&#12290;&#20116;&#26352;&#12290;&#27578;&#29983;&#26377;&#25799;&#12290;&#33509;&#34892;&#20043;&#28961;&#24573;&#12290;
 * --Nanshu 22:39, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Your English terminology is slightly confused. The five Buddhist precepts (&#20116;&#25106;) for both monastic and lay people are warnings (&#31105;&#25106;) against the five evils (&#20116;&#24801;):
 * 1) Killing (&#27578;&#29983;)
 * 2) Stealing (&#20600;&#30428;)
 * 3) Sexual misconduct (&#37034;&#28139;)
 * 4) Lying (&#24536;&#35486;)
 * 5) Using intoxicants (&#39150;&#37202;)

The five precepts you refer to (Sesok Ogye; &#19990;&#20439;&#20116;&#25106;) are translated variously as the "Five Precepts of Worldly Life," the "Five Precepts of the Mundane World," or the "Five Precepts of the Secular World," and were first promoted by the Korean Buddhist monk Wongwang (d. 640). They are not the same as the "Five Precepts for Laypeople." As you enumerated, Wongwang's five precepts are:
 * 1) Serve your lord with loyalty (&#20107;&#21531;&#20197;&#24544;)
 * 2) Serve your parents with filial piety (&#20107;&#35242;&#20197;&#23389;)
 * 3) Be faithful to your friends (&#20132;&#21451;&#20197;&#20449;)
 * 4) Face battle without retreat (&#63990;&#25136;&#28961;&#36864;)
 * 5) When taking life, be selective (&#27578;&#29983;&#26377;&#25799;)

Study more before editing. --Sewing 00:29, 20 Oct 2003 (UTC)


 * Hehe, it's jsut a matter of translation. --Nanshu 23:12, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Please use historical sources
Why do you deleate my post?If you find some err please point out.

''Hwarang (Flowering Knights) were leader of the salon in Silla, an ancient Korean kingdom. They were educational institutions as well as social clubs where members gathered for all aspects of study. -	Menber of the salon called Hwarang-do(花郎徒).

Samguk Sagi and Samguk Yusa record stories about the origin of Hwarang. According to Samguk Sagi the first two group leader, called Wonhwa, were lovely women.But jealousy has driven them mad.One killed other and were abolished. Then another group leader Hwarang was formed.They were cute boys and dressed as a woman.''

key point


 * 1) Distinction between Hwarang(leader) and Hwarang-do(follower).
 * 2) Distinction between Samguk Sagi(My post) and Samguk Yusa(Other)
 * 3) Wonhwa:One killed other and were abolished.
 * 4) Hwarang were cute boys and dressed as a woman.

Adapted from Samguk Sagi. --202.212.62.24 23:09, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

三十七年 春 始奉源花. 初君臣病無以知人、欲使類聚群遊、以觀其行義、然後擧而用之. 遂簡美女二人、一曰南毛、一曰俊貞. 聚徒三百餘人、二女爭娟相妬. 俊貞引南毛於私第、_勸酒至醉、曳而投河水以殺之. 俊貞伏誅、徒人失和罷散. 其後、_取美貌男子、粧飾之、名花_以奉之. 徒衆雲集、或相磨以道義、或相_以歌樂、遊_山水、無遠不至. 因此知其人邪正、擇其善者、薦之於朝. --202.212.62.24 23:18, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * from WP:NOR, quoting Wales, emphasis added: "An article that makes no new low-level claims, but nonetheless synthesizes work in a non-standard way, is effectively original research that I think we ought not to publish. This comes up most often in history, where there is a tendency by some Wikipedians to produce novel narratives and historical interpretations with citation to primary sources to back up their interpretation of events. Even if their citations are accurate, Wikipedia's poorly equipped to judge whether their particular synthesis of the available information is a reasonable one."


 * please cite to reputable publications (Verifiability), not original source documents centuries old in a foreign language, interpreted by you personally. where did you get "cute boys and dressed as a woman"? if you provide the citations, others can help with the proper english grammar & spelling. Appleby 00:38, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

"cute boys and dressed as a woman"? This say as so.取美貌男子、粧飾之、名花

My previous　post is　Samguk Sagi:Records of Silla:King Jinheung:YR 37 Samguk Sagi is written in 12 centuly.But this is oldest and most authoritative text book of the Korean history.

I'm not good at english.So I coudn't find out translated Samguk Sagi. But now you can post english text of Samguk Sagi:Records of Silla:King Jinheung:YR 37.

I'll wait several days. --202.212.62.24 01:39, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * as Wikipedia founder Jimbo Wales says, quoted above from wikipedia policy, your interpretation of primary sources is not appropriate for wikipedia. please provide links to sources as described in Verifiability. as you can see from, there are many historical references to hwarang, & many scholars invest professional expertise in the translations & interpretation of this topic. original research is not a job for wikipedians. thanks. Appleby 02:08, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Avelage east asian learn how to read chinese classic text.If you haven't ever read Koran Tacitus or Suetonius and talk about ancient korean history...it's realy sick.(I dought you alreay have english text though) Especialy this article claim to rely on borth of them.

Most Korean who study Korean history might anger this telephone game like this scholar. http://dongacc.com/main/news/01040701.htm --202.212.62.24 07:26, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * it is not wikipedia's purpose to publish your analysis of ancient source texts, & this is not a place for individual research or thesis. wikipedia is a collection of reliable information from reputable sources, scholarly consensus. i'm not saying your interpretation of that specific text is right or wrong, but it doesn't matter what you or i think. you need more appropriate sourcing for what goes into this article. Appleby 08:11, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I included the historical disputes within the hierarchy section because I learned the Pungwolju and the Gukseon may be synonymous to Hwarang leaders. Or the Pungwolju could be a government position that administers the Gukseon and their Hwarang groups. The Gukseon could be a leader of all Hwarang groups or a leader of a single Hwarang group. I got it from this book, "Martial Arts in Asia: History, Culture, and Politics."Koreanidentity10000 02:56, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Translation of Hwarang
"It is often translated as "flower knights" because in hanja, hwa means flower (noun or verb) and rang, meaning man, was then used as part of various Korean official rank titles." The person who wrote the above statement has no knowledge of chinese character. Hwa/flower/花 is a noun but cannot be a verb. In Chinese character, it is very rare for noun to be used as verb because chinese does not have -ing. Separate chinese character (咲) "blossom" is used. Secondly, go get any chinese character dictionary. Rwang/朗/youth is not the character used for reference to various official titles. Flower of Youth or Flowering Knights is categorically incorrect translation. If someone persist in reverting this edit, I will simply resort to dispute process, find someone neutral (nonJapanese/Korean/Chinese who knows chinese/korean) then simply ask this person to authenticate my translation. If someone wish to waste time, feel free to do so. FWBOarticle


 * please note that we're talking about hanja, chinese characters adapted for use in korea, not chinese language usage or grammar. please refer to chinese-korean dictionaries such as http://zonmal.dreamwiz.com/. also google seems to show "flower knights" is most common, although this is an imperfect method. if you can find a more common translation, please let us know. Appleby 20:01, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * No this isn't hanja. Official written language of ancient Korea or Japanese court wasn't modified version of Chinese.  It was Chinese, just like French was used as the official language of European court. Go check any ancient Korean text. Almost all of it is written in proper Chinese. I'm not, at this point, saying Hwarang was a group of gay youth.  Though such research exist, i don't intend to get into flame war with people who site different research.  I'm merely stating that Hwarang cannot be translated as Flower Knight. FWBOarticle

please see hanja and Korean language. korea never used the chinese language, as the grammatical structure is completely different & the two are genetically unrelated. hanja dictionaries translate rang as man, placename, rank name. see link above or any hanja dictionary, not your personal interpretation. Appleby 20:16, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Please show usage of 花 as a verb in hanja. Even that the translation is wrong because, in such case, it is neccessary to to indicate such verb status in hanja which is not the case with Hwarang. As I said, let find some Westerners with knowledge in chinese character.  I'm tired of revert war.  FWBOarticle

according to the above dictionary, 花, hanja used in korea, means a flower, or to flower. feel free to consult any other hanja dictionary. Appleby 20:36, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Because your translation now use flower instead of flowring, this isn't the issue here. Translation of Rwang as knight is incorrect.  Conslut dictionary.  Just because rwang refer to title/rank only means that the word Youth was refered to as a rank. Feel free to consult any other hanja dictionary. FWBOarticle

would you prefer "flower official" or "flower rank"? flower or flowering knight is how it's usually translated, afaict. Appleby 21:25, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * No, "flower youth". Assuming your reference to be correct, the dictionary only state that Rang=youth is a reference to a rank. So flower rank or flower official is incorrect translation. That is why "hwarang" means flower youth and it refere to group of knight" is kosher from linguistic POV but "hwarang means flower knight" is not. As I said, I don't intend to get into "hey, this is soooooo gay" debate.  Confliciting research exists so different view should be given proper attribution but I have no taste for edit war over topic which would end up with lot of existential agony.  On the other hand, translation issue is factual. Your "flower knight" translation would give slant to one side of the debate. Think how do you feel if I translate Hwarang as "Flower Boy", not totally inaccurate translation. FWBOarticle

um, no. for rang the hanja used in korea, the first definition is "man", second is "a place name", third is "an official rank", it doesn't say that rang as youth is a reference to a rank. i'm fine with flower official or flower rank. Appleby 05:29, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not too far off in guessing that you have no actual knowlege of chinese character. Feel free to translate it to "Flower Men which was a knight order" but "Flower Rank" or "Flower Official" is incorrect translation. Your reference is merely stating that "Rwan/Men/Youth was used (i.e. diverted) as title of rank or officail". Feel free to go and ask Korean or preferably Westerners who understand hanja. FWBOarticle

The current edit is NPOV. Me happy. Thanks. FWBOarticle 14:49, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Who is distorting meaning of hanja 郎? "郎 rang" means just boy(s) not knight or warrior. Hskf4 11:43, 20 April 2006(UTC)


 * The Hwa (flower) in Hwarang in an adjective in the Chinese construction. It is therefore neither a noun nor a verb (ie to flower, which in Chinese is Kai Hua or open-flower, ie flower to open). It qualifies the noun Rang. Flower in this sense means delicate as a flower. It is a metaphor. Flower could also be the metaphor for beautiful/ pretty as a flower, but since it was used to address a man, this interpretation would be inappropriate. "Rang" in Chinese is a polite honorific title used to address a young (or at least not old) man from a metaphorically good family. In English the best translation for Rang would be a young squire. So Hwa Rang in English should be translated as a "delicate young squire". And of course, a squire in Europe is one rank below a knight. Hope that settles your arguments. 86.182.37.153 (talk) 02:03, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

To editors of this page
Some humble requests:

If you are going to change the typography of a Korean word (e.g. from Hwarang to Hwa Rang or Wonhwa to Won Hwa), then please do it for all instances of the word to maintain consistency.

As has been said here and elsewhere many times (and this is a persistent problem with Korea topics): Wikipedia is (or aspires to be) an encyclopedia. It is not a forum for personal interpretations of original documents/linguistics/etc. If you want that then go publish something and come back and cite it. I have no problem for instance with argueing that Hwarang is best translated as "flowering youth" or "blooming youth", etc. But if this is maintained by linguists or scholars then it should be cited. If this is your take on the term, no matter how informed it might be, this is not the place for it.

Make at least a semblance of proofreading submissions. Some typos are unavoidable and will be corrected by the process, but submitting edits with things like "The" capitalized in the middle of a sentence or capitalizing random nouns is unacceptable.

Straitgate 23:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * straightgate, nice job on the clean-up. about the most common translation, though, according to google:


 * flower youth or flower youths: 22
 * flower boys: 27
 * flower knight or flower knights: 42


 * at google scholar, flower boys returns 11 results, 2 or 3 for the others. maybe it's best to more broadly explain the term or explain each hanja character. there are 59 results for hwarang (with silla OR shilla) at google scholar, perhaps indicating that's what scholars usually do. very small numbers indeed to draw any "common translation" conclusions. Appleby 00:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Romantic relations
While I cannot pretend to the level of scholarship present here, I would like to ask if anyone has information on parallels between the hwarang tradition and the shudo tradition. It seems to be a topic addressed in Western histories. Haiduc 15:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Other Uses
Just to let editors know, Hwa Rang is also the name of one of the patterns in ITF Taekwondo. The pattern is named after the military organisation described in the article. Not sure where to include this info though.AleXd (talk) 22:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Does not the picture of Hwarang exist why?
Is it unknown ..what externals it was..?The rumor that it was not actually a soldier was heard. 60.33.35.15 (talk) 17:02, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * More like special elite, because hwarang usually comes from aristocrats/royalty descended. Usually start from very early age and by their early 20s, they should become Achan ranked for these with Jingol status (half royalty).--115.64.154.127 (talk) 14:05, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Sul Sa Do
Dear Wikipedia Contributors,

please, receive a kind greeting. I was researching about the Korean version of Ninjutsu and found Sul Sa Do (http://www.sul-sa-do.com/). That website explains that Sul Sa Do is much better / more advanced version of Hwa Rang Do taught to the few best ones. However, here in Wikipedia I have found this article entitled HwaRang. Is it so or not? Could you please add some information about it?

Thank you very much for your help in advance.

George Rodney Maruri Game (talk) 01:39, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You are looking for Hwa Rang Do. Shii (tock) 14:17, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Useful link
I found a copy of the article referred to.

http://www.williamapercy.com/wiki/images/The_Flower_Boys_of_Silla.pdf

The actual quote regarding the Japanese is, "Many Koreans now middle aged are scarcely aware of having heard of hwarang until after the liberation in 1945. It is most noticeable that the idea of hwarang as a military cult does not become prominent until the days when the Japanese are promoting the idea of bushido. Either from imitation or emulation, it is at that time that the hwarang are presented as primarily military."

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