Talk:Hyde Park, Leeds

Bombings

 * From the article: In July 2005 the area made national news headlines as the home of one of the July 7th London bombers as well as being the location of the terrorists' "Bomb Factory".

The area might have made national news as the home of one of the bombers, I haven't checked July's news, but none of the bombers were as far as I can see from Hyde Park. The bomb factory is in the article about the bombings regarded as being in Burley, however I guess it can be regarded as being in Hyde Park too. Gunnar Larsson 22:03, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree and as nobody has complained I think it should be deleted. Rex the first 02:12, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * To clarify this a little, though I don't feel this needs the article changing- (this is mainly for interest), significant parts of the area that is known as "Hyde Park" by residents lies within the Headingley Ward. Changes were made to the ward boundaries in June 2004.

The July 7th "Bomb Factory" is in an area that is regarded by many as part of "Hyde Park", and lies within the Hyde Park and Woodhouse Ward though is more often marked on maps as "Burley Lodge" or "Burley". This is also the Location of the Newlands Pub, which was the main start point for the Riots. These are often referred to though as the "Hyde Park Riots".

I will in time expand this article and add some links.

One thing I feel drawn to do, however is changing the references to Anarchist and Free Party Movements. I think neither are matter suitable information about the location of people who may or may not be involved publicised. Thanks. Acidsaturation 13:36, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Chestnut Avenue Myth
Just adding to this, though I'll add it here as I can't verify it - the Chestnut Avenue Myth was created by Leeds Student and was then cited as "fact" in several national publications it seems! Acidsaturation 12:59, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I have head this I was going to write it down but I have been unable to find proof aswell! We could contact the student newspaper http://www.lsweb.org.uk/ but they will be a different team, but I know which one I would like to be true! Rex the first 16:52, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't have thought anyone would remember now! I'll try and find out though, as I working with the University so should be able to have a go. Acidsaturation 17:31, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I was living in Chestnut Avenue when it was previously cited in the press as Britains most burgled street. This was in 1993-4. It rung true, as we were burgled, during the summer of 1993, and the police said that there was a gang that had systematically burgled pretty much every student house (i.e. all but about two) in the street in about a month over summer. It was definately in the papers then, I think the Mirror. I shall contact my ex housemates and see if anyone has a cutting still. Anyway, my guess is that it's a story that the press real out every now and again, to fill up space. It is however possible that it had some spark of truth once, either 1993 or perhaps some earlier incarnation.


 * Just for another little bit of interest, a further story I found in a very of student paper (when cleaning 10 years worth of old stuff from our office in the Student Union, was that reputedly the stats for making chestnut avenue the "most burgled street" was one summer a football game had been arranged on the park, between the two sides of the street. This was publicly advertised, and on that day a spate of burglaries occurred as it had been made pretty clear that most of the houses would be empty at this certain time! Acidsaturation (talk) 09:43, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Studentification
I've changed this a little, as view points do differ and I think it is fair to say that the impact is lessened compared to Headingley (for example), but should be acknowledged that some groups do see a problem. I've put the link to HeAL for verification purposes - I "umm-ed and ahh-ed" a bit as to whether this gives this one group a bit of a soap-box but reckoned enabling verification of what I said was more important. Sadly those holding opposing viewpoint that students can enrich the area are less vocal, so one voice tends to be heard more..! Anyone got any views on this? Acidsaturation 17:28, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it is a good link but what you have written might sound like there is more tension than there actually is, from the HeAL website
 * In taking strong positions it is not our intention to get at students. Please do not feel got at!
 * We are campaigning for Planning Statutes that can maintain the population balance between students and residents at a sustainable level, so that one group does not displace the other completely.
 * It might be worth adding that tension is less aimed at students than at landlords. Also you changed first Sat in August to usually in August, maybe I have my dates wrong but apart from 2005 (when there was an issue with permission) hasn't it always been the first Sat in August?Rex the first 21:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a difficult one that - I think the tension is all round in varying degrees - too and from students, community and landlords. Feel free to change if you can word it better though! Unity day does vary dates, I'm pretty sure - I'll try and check with the organisers.
 * Also - what do you reckon to moving some of the intro - put the bits about studentificatin etc in the community section, and add a Demographics section with a bit more information about the area? Acidsaturation 06:39, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Hyde Park - for Students looking for cheaper rent
This is clearly not a fact. The article states

"Being next to Headingley (a more expensive area) it has become a place for students to live who are looking for cheaper rent"

Hyde Park is choosen for a large number of reasons (being nearer to the university, being a more lively area, being a little more unique than Headingly which resembles Fallowfields, Alferton Rd, Clifton and every other student area in the UK).

Moreover, not all houing in Headingly is cheper than that in Hyde Park.

Hyde Park attracts students wanting to avoid the student masses in Headingly would be far more accurate, but again value-laden, so perhaps it best to just leave out the attempt's to explain why people choose Hyde Park over Headingly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sanchezhenn (talk • contribs) 10:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC).


 * I added this comment a while ago as I think Headingley is more expesive but I have looked and found that is it not much more expensive
 * {| class="wikitable" style="width: 70%;text-align:center"

! Area       !! Av Rent !! Sample size
 * Headingley
 * 60.0571
 * 891
 * Hyde park
 * 56.8952
 * 474
 * }
 * But then from the Unipol website:
 * Headingley - Housing costs are significantly higher than average.
 * Hyde Park - Housing costs are significantly higher than average.
 * So seems fine to remove it Rex the first  talk 19:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hyde Park - Housing costs are significantly higher than average.
 * So seems fine to remove it Rex the first  talk 19:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Caribbean population in Hyde Park
As I suspected, no statistics support the claim that there is a sizeable caribbean population. On the contrary, according to National statistics, Hyde Park's Black Caribbean population is below the Leeds average.

see

This comment shall, therefore, be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sanchezhenn (talk • contribs) 10:56, 10 May 2006 (UTC).


 * thanks for checking and updating that Acidsaturation 15:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Asian shops giving the area a local community.
Highly contentious.

Any local businessman would inform that the Student population support these independent shops, such as the international supermarket. Every time I go in ther, the mile long que seems to be filled with fellow students. This exemplifies the intergration of student and natives, rather than, as the article suggests, meets the needs of the local community. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sanchezhenn (talk • contribs) 11:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC).


 * I think where this is contentious is in the context of the friction between students and local residents. Sadly the integration is far less than many students (and the University) would like to think. Of course my statement of this is influenced by my POV (which is both student and long term resident), and many residents would say different as would many students. Businesses cater for the population of an area, whosoever that may be - so in an area that is >50% student they will cater for students and students will keep them going. I think the original author was trying to say that there are still a number of shops catering more for the community - unless all students eat and all shops in student areas sell very specialised south asian brands and foodstuff. Acidsaturation 15:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Co-existence: Student vs Locals? Never!!
As an undergraduate at the University of Leeds in the early 1990s, I lived at 25 Chestnut Avenue for two years. In that time I had the pleasure to experience the daily delights of the Woodhouse and Hyde Park areas. The rousing wake up calls at 2am from drunks and rowdies, the random acts of violence, the never-ending Friday night showing of Reservoir Dogs or Betty Blue at the Hyde Park Picture House, the bad-mouthed asian gang hanging around on the corner of Hessle Place, the blatant drugs pushing in the Royal Oak and the nightly life and death decision of whether to walk around or across the Hyde Park. (And the general indifference shown by the university towards the whole situation.) Anyway... A few years ago (2003) after a job interview in Leeds. I decided to take a drive around the old neighbourhood. I stopped for a coke at the International Supermarket. Then for my trouble, on Chestnut Avenue an asian threw tirade of abuse and a half eaten cake into my car. Later on I understood why. It was July. There were no students there in great numbers so the asian gangs had returned openly to the streets. I couldn't believe it. (In the summer of 1993 my friend, who had to stay in Leeds because his parents had moved to Singapore, was attacked by a gang armed with hammers and screwdrivers outside the Brudenell Road shops. Despite reporting the incident to the police, no action was taken. On the grounds that it would upset 'community relations'.)

More should be written about how those living in Hyde Park are perpetually exploited. Because as their time spent there is transitory no inroads are made to change anything. Difference faces; same old sh*t!

PS I knew the landlord that lost the pub in the 1995 riots. Despite the story about it being used by police surveillance, the real story was more simple. The local scum didn't like the idea that the new boss had turned a loss-making drugs den into an attractive bar for 'cash paying' customers.

And in 2008 it's still going on.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.72.192 (talk) 18:34, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Firstly I've moved this down to keep the Talk page in chronological order. Thanks.


 * I think the article explains the tensions, and that this is a contended subject. If not then feel free to try and explain more, but try and remain NPOV - this is a perception from a personal viewpoint, and one that seems (from the phrase "local scum" to be excessively anti-local. It illustrates one part of the problem fine, but based distinctly on one viewpoint. Wikipedia is not the place for explaining residents' perceptions of exploitation.


 * The problem goes both ways, with students feeling intimidated by local "gangs" (though what you describe is only really borderline "gang" activity in any sociological sense of the term, and local people feeling intimidated by rowdy students. However this is not only an issue in Hyde Park and perhaps should be covered more in wider articles on studentification.


 * I agree that the situation in the Newlands was probably more complex than most people were aware, at present though the main published account remains that of Nick Davis in Dark Heart, which unfortunately must be relied upon, unless other research/journalism can be cited Acidsaturation (talk) 07:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Local Scum
As noted above, you would think reading this article that Hyde Park is a charming place to live. Again published propaganda extolling the wonderful multicultural experience of LS6 is much better than the honest reality of this urban hellhole. It's funny Wikipedia needs something to be published to prove it actually exists/occurred/happened even though one saw it with their own eyes. I notice there are editors on this article who like to spout you need a source knowing full well that on can't be given to protect their own agendas. It's how censorship works I suppose. Besides it doesn't matter if they're black or white, the permanent residents of Hyde Park are generally nasty, parasitic malcontents because anyone wanting to live there by choice must have some sociopathic disorder. Personally I was there in '98-'01 while doing some post grad work.. A couple instances, among many, make me so grateful that my family and I can now live in an up-market area. An example of unprovoked violence. My mate Chris was in the kebab shop shop off Cardigan Road when half-a-dozen "Leeds Leeds Leeds" youths come in and start giving everyone a bad time. The usual "you a student?" "got a light?" quickly changed to "got any change?". Soon it all kicked off and my mate got hit several times but what they didn't know was that Marcel, the short fellow, was both a doctorate reader and a kickboxing champ. My friend said it was like a Van Damme movie as he just knocked them down like skittles. Anyway battered and bleeding the thugs ran off but pretty soon came back with a crowd of more aggressive hoodie thugs and they were looking for blood. Luckily Chris and everyone had already left and the shop had pulled its shutter down. Still it took a police car and a few dogs to clear the streets! An example of the money-driven Asian landlord. A group of girls I knew had an issue with their "ethic" landlord - who rented about 20 properties - over dangerous electrics caused by damp. When they complained and got the Student Union's housing officer on to him, he forced his way into their property, with his bouncers screaming "my house, my house" and ripped out the fuse box. He did this in December!!! The girls had no heat, lights or hot water in winter! They got told by the police it was a civil matter and should call the council. It eventually went to county court, they won. But get this they got nothing because everything was all in the names of this guy's family, some of whom were not even in the UK. They lost almost a year's rent and he never paid a penny. It's likely he didn't pay tax either. He's probably still there, he used to drive a silver Mercedes and was always in the company of one or two large guys. Reading this article makes me laugh because it stinks of a politically-correct agenda, that ironically is just as blind to the truth as any other rigidly enforced doctrine can be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.155.75.85 (talk) 03:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Riot/Newlands
I found this: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19950712/ai_n13994114 which suggests that the situation regarding the Newlands' role in the riot may have been a little more nuanced.Nevov (talk) 11:07, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Rocky Wilson
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5008804.stm this page demonstrates that Ricky Wilson was both a resident and was hit by a car in Hyde Park, not sure if this is close enough for the citation needed. MikelZap (talk) 21:10, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

What makes Chestnut Avenue "Hyde Park"?
It's in Headingley for council ward and policing area. It's a long way from Hyde Park Road. Shouldn't it be in the Headingley article? Epa101 (talk) 21:19, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

- no, because that side of Victoria road is all Hyde park. hell, it goes straight down onto brudenel road which can be considered the middle of hyde park. 82.4.97.209 (talk) 18:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

I have returned to this page 11 years later. The Royal Mail address book lists Chestnut Avenue as being in Headingley. Despite what it says in the article currently, Victoria Road has never been used as a boundary for Hyde Park. Epa101 (talk) 18:46, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 18:33, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Boundaries
There's a lot in the article on the boundaries of Hyde Park, but this doesn't seem to have references. I'd like to have something to back it up. The south of the area marked on the map has traditionally been considered part of Burley. This is why the library in that area (now closed) was called "Burley Library". Many of the roads also have "Burley" somewhere in the name.

Leeds City Council used to do its own Neighbourhood Index, but it seems to have stopped now. You can see here that they labelled this area (with similar boundaries) as "Hyde Park, Burley", which implies that part of the area shown was Hyde Park and the other part was Burley. https://web.archive.org/web/20110929022940/http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/Internet2007/2011/6/E02002383.pdf Epa101 (talk) 08:36, 14 August 2022 (UTC)