Talk:Hyeong/Archive 1

Dan Gun
Currently the link under Dan-Gun ("Please refer to the article on Dan-Gun for his legend and story") goes to a very short separate page about the form, which in turn links to the legend of Dangun. I think the Dan-Gun article should be incorporated into this one, which would then link straight to the legend of Dangun. As a non-wikipedian I'm hesitant to make large changes, but I'm happy to do it if no one objects. 140.247.103.35 01:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It looks like there are a few pages on Dangun which double up some information, and similarly for Chon-Ji. I have merged Kodang with this article, and pointed all the links in International_Taekwondo_Federation and TAGB to here. Now I'm going to propose the following pages for deletion:
 * Chon-Ji
 * Dan-Gun
 * Dan-gun_%28taekwon-do%29
 * Kodang
 * (though presumably I can't delete them myself) 140.247.103.20 02:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work, 140.247.103.20 (can I call you "140"?) I don't think we need to actually delete these pages -- we can keep them as redirects or disambiguation pages. Thanks again! -- Visviva 02:44, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The page is a bit messy, is there any way we can seperate ITF tuls from WTF poomses? would make it much clearer and easier for people to find what they want. -Syneil - 10:27 GMT+1 19-08-2006

Other Forms and Poomsae
Does anyone know what forms Jhoon Rhee's style teaches? Also, Songmookwan has its own forms, called Jungbom forms. Very interesting, graceful & flowing, more circular moves. Three of the Dan forms in the Junbom series use weapons - a Manju broadsword, a staff, and a straight sword, like a Blue Dragon style sword. Master Roh also teaches both the taeguk forms and the whole palgye series, including the Dan forms. - Dan 16:25, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Missing poomse?
My dojang teaches the poomse Keomgang between poomsae Korya and Taebek. Could someone more knowledgeable write something about this? - HeidiL
 * You're right, Heidi - I've studied several places and Keomgang is always there in that spot. The name means diamond, and refers to the Diamond Mountain range in Korea. If you notice the path you walk during the form, it takes the shape of the character for mountain, pronounced 'san' in Korean, and the block executed several times during the form, called "Keomgang Makee", Diamond Block, where you have your arms out straight to your sides with the elbows bent up 90deg also forms that 'san' character, with your head being the middle part of the character. So it's to do with the mountains, in particular the most beautiful mountain range in Korea. At least I hope it's still beautiful; the range is in the north. --Dan 22:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

order
These forms are listed in a very strange order when compared to that of any ITF publication I've ever seen. According to General Choi Hong Hi's official Taekwon-Do encyclopedia, the order is as follows: Chong-Gi, Dan-Gun, Do-San, Won-Hyo, Yul-Gok, Joong-Gun, Toi-Gye, Hwa-Rang, Choong-Moo, Kwang-Gae, Po-Eun, Ge-Baek, Eui-Am, Choong-Jang, Juche, (Ko-Dang), Sam-Il, Yoo-Sin, Choi-Yong, Yon-Gae, Ul-Ji, Moon-Moo, So-San, Se-Jong, Tong-Il. Just wondering what the justification for the alternate listing was. - David

traditional
There is no such thing as "traditional" Taekwondo poomsae. One could say there were early forms of Taekwondo, but in no way are they traditional. The tradition of Taekwondo has been one of change, as demonstrated since the first Kwan in 1944, to the submission of the name Taekwondo to the government, to the official use of the word Taekwondo on August 11, 1965. If anything, we could divide forms of Taekwondo into 4 decades, the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's. - Bigzilla

Korean history
Traditional descriptions of the pattern Ul-Ji state that Eulji Mundeok defended Goguryeo against Chinese Tang forces in 612. In fact this was during the Chinese Sui dynasty; the Tang dynasty followed in 618, partly due to the repeated Sui failures in their attempts to conquer Goguryeo. However, I wanted to get some consensus on this, as the descriptions of the patterns are very traditional and shouldn't be changed too easily. The Wikipedia articles on the Sui Dynasty and the Tang Dynasty support this, but it also is in "The History of Korea" by Han Woo-Keun. Of course, Tang did also attack Goguryeo later the same century, and Yon-Gae repelled them. Omnedon 16:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Romanization
In Manual of Style (Korea-related articles), the Revised Romanization method is given preference. It says, "The exception to this rule are English words borrowed from Korean and frequently used in a non-Korean context, whose irregular spellings have crystallized in English." I don't think that the Tae Kwon Do pattern names would fit this exception, but on the other hand they've been used in the now somewhat non-standard form for a long time. I wanted to put forward the idea of standardizing the pattern names using Revised Romanization to improve consistency. Under this system, Ul-Ji (for example) would be listed as Eul-Ji; but Dan-Gun would remain unchanged. Omnedon 16:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Unofficial ITF syllabus?
There are 24 patterns listed in the General Choi's encyclopedia, one for each hour of the day, but only 20 are given "official" status in this article. Is there a source somewhere that supports this? Omnedon 14:12, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Not having seen any activity on this, I've gone ahead and reordered the ITF pattern list so that it corresponds with the traditional order typically used by the ITF. I may be missing something, but outside this article I have never read that Eui-Am, Yeon-Gae, Mun-Mu and Seo-San were somehow "unofficial".  Omnedon (talk) 00:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

order
The forms of Taekwondo should be listed in historical order. There is no reason, that I can think of, why the ITF forms are listed first, Kukkiwon second, and the Pyong Ahn sets last. Can anyone answer this question? Bigzilla 76.205.124.45 17:50, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup-laundry tag
The "cleanup-laundry" tag that is on this article is probably not necessary in this case, since the article is essentially made up of lists; I'm not sure it can be written otherwise, given the content and purpose. Does anyone disagree with removing this tag? Omnedon (talk) 01:05, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Terms
It was recently asserted that Taekwondo uses the term pumsae to refer to patterns. In fact, some organizations do use that term, but others use hyeong or teul. So I've simply removed that sentence, since all three terms are mentioned in the opening paragraph and are associated there with Korean martial arts. Omnedon (talk) 12:45, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

See Also?
Not being a TKD student at all, I'm curious if these are similar in nature to karate kata and the like. If they are, perhaps a link to forms, kata, etc. in the See Also section might be an idea.--218.166.27.121 (talk) 04:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Done User5802 (talk) 01:49, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Foreign characters used in this article.
Does anyone have advice on how to duplicate the foreign characters on a standard English keyboard running a standard English operating system? Does it have anything to do with 8-bit vs. UTF encoding? User5802 (talk) 21:35, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * There are alternative input methods available in both Windows and current Linux distributions. There are instructions on enabling this here in Wikipedia:  Help:Multilingual_support_(East_Asian)  Does that help? Omnedon (talk) 21:49, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

A little bit, I'm going to try and cut and paste the text with a UTF-8 encoding compatible editor and see what happens. User5802 (talk) 22:07, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Didn't work, so I set up my operating system to be able to view Korean characters according to this. Thanks. User5802 (talk) 23:08, 29 November 2008 (UTC)