Talk:Hyman Larner

Lamer or Larner
The book which I have used to write the article thus far uses the names "Lamer" an "Larner" interchangably, so I don't know what his correct name is. __meco (talk) 14:49, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to recollect how I researched this article. I may have accessed the book via Google Books, and that may mean that what possibly could have been uniform spelling in the physical book became alternately the "m" and the "r-n" spellings due to lack of precision of the OCR scanning process. __meco (talk) 20:09, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I have read the book, and in my edition the spelling is consistantly "Larner". Additionally, all of the sources spell it Larner, as do online reviews of the main source that mentions Larner. For example the Chicago Tribune states "But Corbitt contends the CIA's chief contact with the Chicago mob was the late Hy "Red" Larner -- a mobster who reported to Giancana and first came to the attention of law enforcement in the 1950s when he was identified at Senate racketeering hearings as a mob higher-up." Chigaco Tribune review of Corbitt

For that reason I would recommend deleting this section of the entry and changing the title of the entry from "Lamer" to "Larner" Autoicon (talk) 12:55, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

I have read a LOT on Hyman "Red" Larner, and have hundreds of clippings on him. I've never seen his name misspelled in news articles as 'LAMER'. He ran the slots/juke/coin gaming rackets directly under Sam Giancana. Using the name Thomas 'Red" Waterfall, he ran the mob organization, CIAA (Chicago Independant Amusement Association, which was a confidence scheme to control, and extort from, arcade gaming in Illinois. Pool tables, bowling games or skee-ball, pinball machines, etc. Larner was uncovered by the Chicago Tribune when they bypassed a corrupt CPD investigation into tavern gaming terrorists and named the extortionists as Alex Ross and James V Rini. When Ross was arrested on Feb 13 58, he was subpoenaed the next day to appear before McClellan's committee. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_Select_Committee_on_Improper_Activities_in_Labor_and_Management

While Ross was under arrest, Rini fled Chicago, and Larner also fled his new 17th-floor apartment at the top of a new North Shore Drive hi-rise. He ended up claiming the 5th in front of McClellan and RFK some 50+ times. I CANNOT BELIEVE Red Larner is so minimized that people can't even spell his name, much less tell the story of his ugly reign over Chicago as one of Giancano's Capos.

I have hundreds of articles in PDF, but I can't link to them or credit them as sources because they are pay-per-view. I don't have the time to update this page, or argue the facts, or get into a pissing contest over the mere spelling of Hyman 'Hy' 'Red' Larner's name. If anyone wants to pick up the ball, I can send the original articles. Trust me, he was NEVER called Lamer in life. I would call it a typo by a bad publisher. His name was Larner, plus a few AKAs. I'm changing the main page to Larner because the only source here claims it's listed both ways in some book? Let's go with his real name instead of leaning towards the misspelling.PS I think the publishing error is due to the font being read by typesetters. When rn are next to each other in several fonts, they look identical to an m.    Motthoop (talk) 13:43, 20 April 2013 (UTC)


 * his nickname was the old man I knew him very well 2601:58C:4203:26C0:D0BD:4629:C49B:36F2 (talk) 16:43, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Prod
I think the Prod is not relevant to the current version of the article which describes a notable career.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:25, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Move. Cúchullain t/ c 19:34, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Hyman Lamer → Hyman Larner – The reasoning behind calling the page 'Hyman Lamer' seems to rely on one book, where typesetters evidently often mistook the placement of 'rn' closely together as 'm', which is how it looks in many fonts, including commonly used Arial. I have been investigating Jim Rini, Alex Ross, and Hy "Red" Larner for a while and have hundreds of articles on them. Larner is never misspelled as 'Lamer'. Motthoop (talk) 14:15, 20 April 2013 (UTC) I cannot provide links to contemporary articles, because they are pay-per-view. Here are several others:

http://books.google.com/books?id=MvyLBI6yZ4sC&pg=PA188&lpg=PA188&dq=Hyman+Larner&source=bl&ots=s9rMyrYV9t&sig=XZS1VtiV9IfKPJpIpmNe8bsXJ-U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Q59yUc_XOuWU2QXWkIHICw&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Hyman%20Larner&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=RiEEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=hyman+larner&source=bl&ots=l3cUVds9-V&sig=u1UE8nLnLCMMzuSN3Dp3oqdtIpg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=E6ByUaeFOcTR2QWPxYHgAg&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=hyman%20larner&f=true

http://books.google.com/books?id=VCEEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=hyman+larner&source=bl&ots=uG7H8cpYRS&sig=Klhr3oZaSWkzR257icsb218tLmk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=B6FyUY-gG-Xo2AX8soCIBw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=hyman%20larner&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=th4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA69&lpg=PA69&dq=hyman+larner&source=bl&ots=T9obqbaNMd&sig=-Dw7r8qDg6drwJKzZkfmu7rcB98&hl=en&sa=X&ei=B6FyUY-gG-Xo2AX8soCIBw&ved=0CDIQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=hyman%20larner&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=EYWYDZKRFj4C&pg=PA372&lpg=PA372&dq=hyman+larner&source=bl&ots=9kw9b_XutI&sig=DawKOW3MAg2jkeTpCaUzcAe2YoM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=B6FyUY-gG-Xo2AX8soCIBw&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=hyman%20larner&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=CwsEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=hyman+larner&source=bl&ots=gC87BQv2sf&sig=ealpq9MEzVmqGGu26GrwWp1_-yQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CaFyUeX_LqGQ2gXB1oCYAw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAjgU#v=onepage&q=hyman%20larner&f=false

Google News Archive:

https://www.google.com/search?pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&tbm=nws&gl=us&as_epq=hyman%20larner&as_occt=any&as_drrb=a&tbs=ar%3A1&authuser=0

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19590225&id=m-hWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QUMNAAAAIBAJ&pg=6954,3377287

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=iF1QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_Q8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=4088,3102858&dq=hyman-larner&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=srEfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ZNcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2739,2740742&dq=hyman-larner&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oDNWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pucDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5188,7593828&dq=hyman-larner&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ap8oAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jSUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7400,2824618&dq=hyman-larner&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TccyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=GOwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2611,4196734&dq=hyman-larner&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=rV4VAAAAIBAJ&sjid=F-cDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4677,1520083&dq=hyman-larner&hl=en

See also previous discussion above. —  AjaxSmack  14:37, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

THE ABOVE [User talk:AjaxSmack| AjaxSmack ]] COMMENT IS BY SOMEONE WHO NEVER READ THE ARTICLE OR ISSUE AND BLINDLY PASSED BAD JUDGEMENT  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Motthoop (talk • contribs) 16:39, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm the one that added the comments to the above section earlier today- about the mistaken spelling. I changed all the references in the article from LAMER to LARNER, then added this section to TALK to have the title changed, via MOVE. The older recommendation in "Lamer or Larner" to have it changed was months ago, with no action. I've added links to dozens of documented sources with correct LARNER spelling, as well as asked, formally, for the entire TITLE of this article be changed to LARNER, via the 'move' system within wiki.

I also found a site that has a dozens of 1950s articles, mostly Chicago Tribune, about Larner and his slots terror mob. He's never called Lamer, because his name was Larner, and Lamer was never an AKA http://keddiemurdersfilm.com/gallery/Rini%20Articles/index.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Motthoop (talk • contribs) 15:32, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Support Unless someone presents an opposing view, I see no reason not to make the move.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:28, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.