Talk:Hypermobility (joints)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2019 and 10 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Varnchri.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Revised EDS/HSD Diagnostic Criteria, Major Re-write Required
In 2016 the diagnostic criteria for EDS Type 3 were re-written to be more restrictive, with the intent of narrowing the pool of EDS Type 3 patients in the hope of making it easier to identify a common genetic mutation, EDS Type 3 being the only EDS variant without a diagnostic DNA test. At the same type Hypermobility Syndrome (sometimes still called Joint Hypermobility Syndrome - dropped because collagen disorders cause effects throughout the body, not just joints, or Benign Joint Hypermobility Syndrome - dropped because it is not benign) was redefined as a hypermobility disorder that does not meet the diagnostic criteria for EDS Type 3 (or Marfans, OI and other collagen disorders) and renamed as Hypermobility Spectrum Disorder (HSD). The article needs a large scale re-write to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.66.40 (talk) 18:13, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

ERROR ?
In "Diagnosis" the passage states "formally agreed that there was little distinction between Hypermobility Syndrome and Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and that they are in fact the same disorder." - Should this have "Type 3" after EDS ?. There is considerable difference between the 4 types of EDS, am I right in thinking that EDS type 3 is considered to be a different name to HMS? Ian Murray 20/06/11. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.203.255.1 (talk) 18:39, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * While this undoubtedly meant EDS III, it's now out of date as EDS III has been redefined to not overlap with the new Hypermobility Spectrum Disorder. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.66.40 (talk) 18:01, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Hypermobility the same as EDS Type 3
I can't actually find any information about whether it is the same thing or not.

Any ideas? 92.22.99.220 (talk) 06:17, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello, if I am correct, hypermobile EDS (hEDS) is EDS type 3. In the 2017 classification of Ehlers-Danlos syndromes by Ehlers-Danlos society states that old terms, such as, EDS hypermobility type, or EDS type 3, have been omitted. Instead it would be, hEDS or hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. I'll attach the link here. It also has information about the conditions, and I hope that this helps. Thank you so much! Poeticfeelings (talk) 08:27, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Also, hEDS is not the ONLY cause for hypermobility. Hypermobility can have causes that are not hEDS: Other medical conditions such as Marfan syndrome can cause it. Also, children tend to have more lax joints, and I think to some extent you can become hypermobile by training (as in contortionists, although some contortionists have underlying medical conditions). Waitalie Nat (talk) 02:39, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree. hEDS or other EDS types (such as Classical EDS; cEDS) feature joint hypermobility, but they are not the only syndromes which causes hypermobility. To consider that children have more flexibility, new EDS criteria for hEDS states that 6 or more points on the Beighton scale (out of 9 points) are needed to be made for pre-pubertal/adolescent children to determine that they have joint hypermobility. Marfan Syndrome also causes hypermobility as well; so does other connective tissue disorders like Loeys–Dietz syndrome. I am not an expert, but I heard that hypermobility in patients with a connective tissue disorder causes great pain. Poeticfeelings (talk) 15:12, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Since the revised categorisation introduced at the end on 2016, EDS Type 3 and Hypermobility Syndrome, now renamed Hypermobility Spectrum Disorder (HSD) no longer overlap. HSD is specifically defined as hypermobility disorders that do not meet the revised EDS Type 3 diagnostic criteria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.66.40 (talk) 18:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Advantages of being hypermobile
I don't think I'm good enough, but does somebody fancy writing up something on the advantages of hypermobility? I mean, there isn't anything major, but how many people do you know that answer the front door and use light switches with their feet? (there are other examples, I'm sure) --Ben0207 01:18, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there is any advantages. Although there are many disadvantages it can cause a lot of problems for suffers. Wonx2150 01:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't have enough advantages for anything significant but there deffinutly are many. if we could get a list then i would be happy to post Lolcy 00:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually there are, ask a physiotherapist, if you roll your ankle for example and are hyper mobile you are alot more likely to break a bone and alot less likely to tear a ligament. While that sounds worse on the surface its actually better. A severe sprain can easily take as long or longer to heal then a broken bone, so you will be out of commission for the same length of time, but a broken bone will easily heal itself in a cast while torn ligaments often require surgery and can cause problems for the rest of ones life, so having "stretchy" ligaments and joints prevents difficult to repair soft tissue damage. May 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.41.245 (talk) 19:21, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It's advantage for swimmers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.213.66.57 (talk) 20:11, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

How about activities such as playing the piano or video gaming? Hypermobility can be advantageous in dexterous activities where things like digit spread or flexibility are important. For example, I can get my pinky and thumb in a straight line and have 9" in between them. This is extremely useful in things like typing. And yes, it looks really weird. Any more examples would be welcome. Also, there is a difference between being merely morbidly flexible and being hypermobile as a result of another disease or detrimental condition. I think it's a matter of whether you embrace and exploit hypermobility in useful ways or if it is a disabling, hindering and/or painful disorder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.187.136 (talk) 02:25, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

There are more disadvantages than advantages, disadvantages being severe pain and possibly deformity, and other issues caused by faulty collagen such as increased risk of MVP and POTS.

Advantages are more likely to be less risk of breaking a bone, since you are more likely to dislocate a joint before breaking the bone itself. 92.22.99.220 (talk) 06:17, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Hypermobility is useful in many sports, as gymnastics, swimming, martial arts and many others. Some dances needs flexibility like Ballet, and hypermobility can be an advantage. When I began swimming 4 times per day and I got fit, I never dislocated my shoulder again and my scoliosis condition got better (the scoliotic curve was 8 degrees, and took down to 4 degrees). Sports, exercises and correct dieatary habits are important for a healthy life of anyone, and for hyperflexible people is a must. (talk) 14:25, 20 November 2009 (UTC))

You are all forgetting that Wikipedia is not a place for anecdotes about yourself and your friends. Everything has to be sourced. So if you want to include a bunch of advantages, then find a published work that lists such things and cite it as a reference. Otherwise the article comes accross as unprofessional. → $JJOlsen$  20:22, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Generally regarded as a likely possible symptom
Could someone who is more knowledgeable about the subject rephrase this line? I don't think it needs this much hedwging. Croctotheface 08:20, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it should link to a list of these possible problems.

I just deleted that line - it's not true, for a start. Crana 17:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I as a person who has Hyeprmobilty Syndrome in all of my joints, and am unable to have children due to the elasticity in my womb, find that there are no advantages. I use crutches 24 hours a day 7 days a week, I am unable to go naywhere unsupervised. I am in constant pain and have osteoarthritas and use a mobilty scooter and wheelchair. IM 20 YEARS OLD. Nothing for me is an advantage at all! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.71.170 (talk) 04:55, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Brighton and Beighton
"The current diagnostic criteria for Hypermobility Syndrome are the Brighton criteria, which incorporate the Beighton score[1]."

This is correct - do not change Brighton back to Beighton. Brighton is *not* a misspelling of Beighton; they are separate things. Read the reference given. Crana 16:52, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

osteoarthritis
I have hypermobility and i have been told that hypermobility can help prevent osteoarthritis and it confused me when i read this artical. i was just wondering if anyone had more insight into it as both run in my family. Lolcy Lolcy 22:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Whoever told you that got it the wrong way round, I'm afraid - hypermobility syndrome [corrected from hypermobility - see below] increases a person's chance of getting osteoarthritis. Crana.

WHITE LANTERN KyleRaynerWLC (talk) 12:52, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

re:osteoarthritis and hypermobility
I have looked again at the research after your comment. According to recent research articles accessible through internet search the link between osteoarthritis and hypermobility has been the subject of several studies. patients who present with oseoarthritis may well present also with hypermobility, a certain percentage of the population inherit hm and therefore will also develop osteoarthritis as being members of the total population. An individual with hypermobility has no more chance of developing osteo arthitis than any one else, in fact..the current research DOES show a degree of protection afforded to the articular joints particularly of the hands. Lolcy 01:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)lolcyLolcy 01:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I assumed that you were referring to hypermobility syndrome, which was a wrong assumption to make - sorry. Much of the research showing no association/protective effects (including the hand study you mention) has not be carried out specifically in people with hypermobility syndrome, just people with a degree of hypermobility (the distinction's explained in the main article if you haven't come across it).

HMS is generally considered at present by those researching the area (e.g. Prof Grahame at UCL) as distinct from this generally milder hypermobility that occurs without any extra-articular features - this second form is thought to be from natural variation or training, rather than from mutated, weakened collagen. It's to be expected that this would make a difference, especially as hypermobile people without the syndrome may have different lifestyle factors - a person who does more exercise that incorporates stretching is likely to maintain more flexibility as he or she ages compared to a person who never stretches. A difference in exercise might affect osteoarthritis in some joints.

I do apologise for having said "hypermobility" when I should have said "hypermobility syndrome". Crana 00:31, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Rheumatoid arthritis and hypermobility
Is there any link between RA and HMS? I have these both in my family and wonder if any other families have this. Ian Murray, 20 June 2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.203.255.1 (talk) 18:34, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Variations In Joint Hypermobility Among Ethnic Groups
Can an elaboration be made to the following statement made in this article:

"There is considerable variation in joint hypermobility between ethnic communities."

I have not found any research that has indicated that there is any variation between ethnics & racial groups. Has anyone located any information that led to this statement? Can clarification or support be given for this statement? Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zyphryn (talk • contribs) 00:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC).
 * I agree. They may be thinking of variation due to the regional encouragement of sports that require flexibility, but then it would be due to the sport, not the national origin. Whoever posts this would have to cite a study of innate hypermobility at birth. GUllman 18:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't have chance to look it up now but I have definitely seen epidemiological studies indicating that hypermobility is more prevalent, for example, in people from the Indian subcontinent than in caucasians. It's not to do with sport. When I get time I'll reference it properly, but it's an established "fact". Crana 11:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

signed losa


 * I read a book about HSD, by Brad Tinkle, and it briefly mentions that "Asians and those of African descent are typically more hypermobile than Caucasians." He also cites Pountain, Verhoeven, and Grahame and Hakim who presumably have similar findings — Preceding unsigned comment added by Georgia.ande (talk • contribs) 23:30, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

im double jointed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.118.136.101 (talk) 01:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Different use of the term in the UK?
I was always told that I was double-jointed, but this was never regarded as anything fitting the description on this page. In England, double-jointed means specifically being able to rotate the thumb in towards the palm while pointing the thumb outwards (it flips in and out with a click). If anything it is advantageous in extending the 'opposable thumb and finger' concept to other fingers. Being a touch-typist, I find that I cannot use a laptop without the text being scrambled as I type because the thumb interferes with the touch-pad unless I turn it off. On some laptops the pad cannot be disabled, and I have to cover it with a plate.

This is clearly an inherited feature in many families, as in mine, but not regarded as a syndrome, a medical condition or anything particularly unusual or disadvantageous. It's rather like the presence or absence of earlobes. Maybe this feature is particular to the UK or sections of the UK population?

I've just found a good page that describes the double-jointed thumb as being controlled by a dominant gene.  --Memestream (talk) 16:46, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * In my experience, as a sufferer of the more nasty side-effects, GPs in the UK don't seem to see it as a syndrome, but hospital physiotherapists do. In fact it was mine that told me about it a few months ago. I was diagnosed with damaged hypermobile joints (approx 30% more movement than I should have at my age) 22 years ago, I found out there was a full blown syndrome 6 months ago. The term "hypermobile" is common in the UK, the addition of "syndrome" is not though. -- Web H amster  18:18, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Ahoy, I live in GB and i've been diegnosed with Benign Familial Hypermobility so it is a term used over here but you need to score on the test not just have one joint that hyperextends. xxxxxxx —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lolcy (talk • contribs) 21:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

--- The difference as I see it is that Hypermobility is a "double-jointed" condition that some people have, those that also experience pain which causes difficulties in how they manage their lives, complain to a Doctor and have the term syndrome added to it. Being able to do party tricks with no serious amount of pain is not a problem and therefore not a syndrome. Ian Murray --- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.228.159 (talk) 17:02, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

After much pain and searching, an extended family physical therapist finally found a physician who diagnosed his adult daughter (after many years of extreme pain and mis-diagnosis, including chronic fatigue syndrome and rheumatoid arthritis). She is now on the mend, no thanks to USA-based physical therapy....they are using the considerable resources on this syndrome that have been developed in the UK. The special problems of this disorder may not be fully appreciated in the USA, perhaps relating to the absence of a medical or surgical 'cure.' Homebuilding (talk) 17:12, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

hitchhiker's thumb
Should H'sT be taken as a hypermobility trait as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/dispomim.cgi?id=274200 use the label "distal hyperextensibility" for it and http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-hitchhikers-thumb.htm says that it should not be thought as double jointedness? I think not. Probios (talk) 16:07, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Double jointedness is another laymans term for hypermobility. "Hitchhikers Thumb" should be a sidenote in this article as it's simply an obvious form of hypermobility.  Most people with bilateral hypermobility of the thumbs will exhibit hypermobility throughout their body. --Nukes4Tots (talk) 16:28, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Larsen syndrome
Hypermobility is a symptom of Larsen syndrome (LS), also called Autosomal Dominant Larsen syndrome, a congenital disorder. --User:Brenont (talk) 14:30, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Is forcing it hypermobility ?
I note that there are several pictures in gallery showing people forcebly beding back their fingers (such as this one ). I suspect this is something anyone can do - I can forcebly bend my fingers back to a 90 degree angle, but I can berely do 45 degrees without forcing it and I don't think I have this condition. I also suspect that with some traing one can do even more. For sake of credability shouldn't only cases where one can bend their joints to abnormal position without taking extra mesures be used as ilustration ? 95.68.123.30 (talk) 02:19, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Forcing it is how it is checked by doctors. You shouldn't be able to do it, if you don't have some form of hypermobility.  I've actually had people try to do it that don't have the disorder, and they can't do it at all. Janers0217 (talk) 08:21, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't understand why this is classified as a disease. My hands are as flexible as the ones of the original poster. I don't feel any pain and it's even very useful when playing the piano. --2.246.58.160 (talk) 01:23, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with you that hypermobility is not considered a disease. However, patients with EDS (Ehlers-Danlos Syndromes) and hypermobility syndromes can have problems related to this- such as chronic pain from hypermobile joints, which may lead to dislocations and subluxations. The skin aspect can relate on this as well; in case of EDS, the disease causes skin to lack collagen which causes hypermobility, thus leading to many problems. I hope this helps! Poeticfeelings (talk) 11:56, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Not everyone who has hypermobile joints has hyper mobility syndrome, it's only when you've been in chronic pain in multiple joints, or sometimes used as an umbrella term for genetic and other disorders like EDS Also in relation to being the fingers, it shouldn't be painful. My fingers bend like these, no pain at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.75.38.196 (talk) 07:37, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Causes - "and each cules is coolis ail in the following sections."
What on earth does this mean? Googling "cules is coolis ail" does not find a definition. Language is about understanding and if very few people understand this the phrase is pointless. Ian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.165.158 (talk) 08:37, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

New pictures?
All i see in this article is hands, it makes readers think that its more common with hands than anything else. Most people can do the same thing illustrated in the first picture but doctors usually wont list it as a medical condition if its something like a arm or a leg.On my family we have the gene that contains Hypermobility and i will be happy to show what a arm looks like. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.152.199.156 (talk) 13:11, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
 * There are pictures (more like diagram, I believe) of Beighton Score demonstrating hypermobile legs and arms available through Ehlers-Danlos Society from their hEDS diagnosis checklist. I do not know if it is copyrighted. Would you like me to attach the checklist? Poeticfeelings (talk) 10:09, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Edits
I have organized the article per WP:MEDMOS and removed some primary sources. This for example is a primary source. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 16:57, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Added relationship to anxiety disorder based on better reference  Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 17:01, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Hypermobility (joints). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130302094822/http://www.jaoa.org/content/106/9/531.full to http://www.jaoa.org/content/106/9/531.full
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090408080835/http://www.arc.org.uk/arthinfo/patpubs/6019/6019.asp to http://www.arc.org.uk/arthinfo/patpubs/6019/6019.asp

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 09:29, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Hypermobility (joints). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20161125110207/http://hypermobility.org/help-advice/hypermobility-syndromes/jhs-or-eds/ to http://hypermobility.org/help-advice/hypermobility-syndromes/jhs-or-eds/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 14:29, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Hypermobility (joints). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20161125044714/https://www.ehlers-danlos.org/about-eds/medical-information/hypermobility/jhs-vs-eds/ to https://www.ehlers-danlos.org/about-eds/medical-information/hypermobility/jhs-vs-eds/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:57, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Does the photo in the lede show hypermobile fingers?
Given the definition in the lede, "joints that stretch farther than normal", I don't see how the fingers in the top photo are hypermobile. What makes them unusual is that the top joints bend while the middle joints remain straight. I don't think the top joints bend at an unusually acute angle. Ornilnas (talk) 04:11, 10 November 2022 (UTC)