Talk:Hyponatremia/Archive 1

Speedy deletion
For some reason, this page has been listed as a candidate for speedy deletion. There is no reason to delete this page. Hyponatremia is a fairly common medical disorder. Sure, the page might require considerable work, but it shouldn't be deleted! -- FirstPrinciples 05:55, 13 September 2004 (UTC)


 * OK, it is no longer being deleted... what was that all about? -- FirstPrinciples 06:00, 13 September 2004 (UTC)

Not opposite of dehydration?
Someone wrote that hyponatremia was the opposite of dehydration, but that's not correct. A dehydrated person can be either hyponatremic or hypernatremic. I've removed that, but obviously the topic calls for a fuller treatment. - Nunh-huh 02:27, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
 * Hyponatremia may eventually lead to dehydration, due to osmosis balancing the high salinity of cells with the low salinity of the blood. Dehydration does not cause hyponatremia.  --[[User:Eequor|&eta; [[Image:Venus symbol (blue).gif|&#9792;]] [ &upsilon;&omega;&rho;]]] 17:01, 18 September 2004 (UTC)
 * "Hyponatremia may eventually lead to dehydration, due to osmosis balancing the high salinity of cells with the low salinity of the blood." This is utter rubbish!
 * "Dehydration does not cause hyponatremia." This is correct. Dehydration alone would cause hypernatremia. Axl 21:52, 30 December 2004 (UTC)

Women and Children
Removed the following from a paragraph on a different subject. Please put it back in a better place, and cite if possible.
 * Women and children are at higher risk for death with this problem; for women it's because estrogen and progesterone can interfere with the brain's ability to remove sodium (the body's tissues try to remove some of the sodium to alleviate the swelling), and for children there's not enough room in their skulls because their brains grow to full size before their skulls do and so there's less room for the brain to swell up in and their brains will herniate faster (I heard an expert on the radio, KCBS, Jan 14, 2007). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.99.123.63 (talk) 20:10, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

"Hold your wee for a Wii"
My addition of the contest name was not intended to suggest that not urinating is a cause of hyponatremia. Rather, I merely intended to add a fact to the entry. I apologize if the edit seemed misleading. Bigsnake 19 00:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I did not mean to imply that the 'entry' was misleading, but rather that the association of the contest name and the condition was misleading to others. Hopefully, its been clarified.Dan Levy 00:55, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * As far as the request for citation, I personally think that its a bit out of the scope of the article. I can say with confidence that refraining from voiding does not contribute to hyponatremia because the bladder lining is totally impermeable to water, and neither salts nor water go back into the bloodstream once they are in the bladder.  That said, I am unaware of any reference that would specifically address this issue.Dan Levy 00:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Guidelines
JFW | T@lk  00:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

ADH and salt retention
ADH's primary function is indeed to increase water permeability in the collecting system. However, ADH also stimulates Na/K/Cl cotransport (in the thick asc. limb of loop of Henle), and stimulates apical Na channels in collecting tubules. (Source: Boron & Boulpaep, Medical Physiology, Updated Ed., p. 787.) I have revised the page to accomodate this, while emphasizing that the water retention is the dominant effect, thus leading to hyponatremia. --shrimppesto (talk) 07:26, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Merge with water intoxication?
I'm wondering if someone can tell there difference, I've heard professionals refer to these as the same thing. As far as I can tell, any difference would be that water intoxication is just one method of contracting hyponatremia, but it still makes sense to me to merge it into this as a cause. Tyciol 21:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

You're right, it would be a way of developing hyponatremia. But other electolytes can be displaced as well, and the physiology of hyponatremia is distinct because among other things it can can cause water intoxication itself. It also gives rise to pages to discuss other electolyte imbalances such as hyper/hypo kalemia, magnesemia etc. Although they are closely linked, I think a merge would create ambiguity between different conditions. Harrisonjohnson (talk) 23:32, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If these are indeed distinct conditions, there should be a paragraph on that. In the current article both terms are mostly used as synonyms, which is quite confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.162.11.134 (talk) 13:29, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Is there a way to monitor the sodium levels in urine and blood in the home ?
Person who has diabetic insipidus has extreme thrist and very little ability for urine retention, so basically tehy drink a lot of water and urinate almost very soon. This is making the electrolyte imbalance in the body. Taking electrolyte supplement helps but the NEED IS TO BE ABLE TO MONITOR THE SODIUM LEVELS SO IT CAN BE MAINTAINED IN A RANGE. WE ARE ABLE TO MONITOR THE SUGAR LEVELS IN THE BODY, SO I WANT TO start teh discussion is there a simple way to measure teh electrolytes in the body especially the sodium level —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.71.45.202 (talk) 16:16, 27 December 2009 (UTC) lood
 * While I am not a clinical lab specialist, I believe that there are no home kits for either sodium in the urine or blood. There may or may not be significant hurdles to developing a colorometric assay like what is used for glucose, but note that there is a huge market for glucose monitoring and none for sodium.  For what it is worth, a urine test would not be helpful for diabetes insipidus anyway.  The urine will almost always be dilute, and it is the serum sodium level that is relevant.


 * Three comments about your diabetes insipidus: 1) The general advice of a nephrologist or endocrinologist for a patient with diabetes insipidus would be to drink whenever thirsty. That is, the sense of thirst for most DI patients would probably be just as effective as strips to measure blood sodium.  Unfortunately, some patients with diabetes insipidus need to drink well over a gallon of water a day to keep up with the urinary losses of water.   2) Drinking electrolyte supplements may not be beneficial, and you might save money enjoying tap water (unless your physician tells you otherwise).  3) The diagnosis of diabetes insipidus should be confirmed by and discussed with a nephrologist or endocrinologist, as polydipsia should be ruled out.  Particularly because hypernatremia is common in diabetes insipidus, but an occurence of hyponatremia would suggest polydipsia.  Also, the possibility of discontinuing certain medications (e.g. lithium) should be discussed with a physician.D.I.L. (talk) 18:51, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Good review
2000, but very good: JFW |  T@lk  02:55, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

MDMA
MDMA is a phenethylamine/stimulant with psychedelic effects, not an amphetamine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.225.18.123 (talk) 07:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Wrong, it is firmly a member of the Amphetamine family. 118.209.11.208 (talk) 03:45, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Water intoxication, hyponatremia, body water, etc
Please see Talk:Water intoxication for a collaboration suggestion. Last Lost (talk) 18:23, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Hypervolemic hyponatremia and decreased effective circulating volume (Pathophysiology section)
The idea that hypervolemia can occur with decreased effective circulating volume make no sense to me at all. Hypervolemia is by definition increased blood volume.

Also the article seems clumsy having both a 'causes' section and a 'pathphysiology' section - both sections go through the hypervolemic/euvolemic/hypovolemic classifications but disagree with each other.

I propose to condense the 'causes' and 'pathophysiology' sections into one section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jon the id (talk • contribs) 23:12, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Resources
The following resources may be useful in enriching this article:  D ip ta ns hu Talk 14:10, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hyponatremia and hyperkalemia By Norbert Lameire
 * Emergency lectures - Hyponatremia hyperkalemia
 * Hyponatremia and hyperkalemia By Norbert Lameire
 * Emergency lectures - Hyponatremia hyperkalemia

Is table salt (or sea salt) needed on food to avoid sodium deficiency?
Would it be dangerous for an athlete who exercises regularly to not use table/sea salt on any food? If for example the athlete is eating a lot of fruits/vegetables, which have a high potassium/low sodium ratio, would that disrupt the electrolyte balance if salt is not added to the food?

Do athletes who eat table/sea salt perform better? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.41.47.95 (talk) 21:39, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Having a high potassium / low sodium ratio per se in an athelete’s diet should not be problematic if the total daily sodium intake were sufficient to replete what is lost in exercize. For the vast majority of people consuming a Western diet, table salt is entirely unnecessary to maintain an appropriate amount of sodium in the body.  Exceptions would be vigorous atheletes who (for some reason) would be consuming a low-sodium diet, as well as people with diarrhea or vomiting who are unable to keep up with their losses. Dan Levy (talk) 04:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "Replenish", not "replete". The latter is an adjective, not a verb. 172.56.27.24 (talk) 23:23, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

plagiarism?
The text in the first paragraph, starting with "Sodium is the dominant extracellular cation..." is taken almost word-for-word from http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/242166-overview Yoshm (talk) 12:54, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Good eye. Please fix the text D.I.L. (talk) 15:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That's just silly. In the first place, you say "almost". If it isn't identical, how can you charge plagiarism? After all, it's the way something is expressed, not the subject matter, that makes for such a charge. Secondly, how can you possible know that the clause was "taken"? The concept is so simple, it's hard to come up with many ways of expressing it. Except for the choice of "dominant", rather than "main", I bet that sentence has been uttered many times, utterly independently of any existing journal articles. You say "the text...starting with". I wonder how much more you meant to include. Those six words alone can hardly justify the charge. 172.56.27.17 (talk) 23:46, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Diet?
In the introduction, I find:


 * Lack of sodium (salt) alone is very rarely the cause of hyponatremia....

I suspect that the intended idea is that hyponatremia is rarely caused by a low dietary intake of sodium, but I'm not sure enough to make an edit. 172.56.26.119 (talk) 23:57, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Clinical practice guideline on diagnosis and treatment of hyponatraemia.
Spasovski G1, Vanholder R, Allolio B, Annane D, Ball S, Bichet D, Decaux G, Fenske W, Hoorn EJ, Ichai C, Joannidis M, Soupart A, Zietse R, Haller M, van der Veer S, Van Biesen W, Nagler E; Hyponatraemia Guideline Development Group.

Clinical practice guideline on diagnosis and treatment of hyponatraemia.

Nephrol Dial Transplant. 2014 Apr;29 Suppl 2:i1-i39. doi: 10.1093/ndt/gfu040. Epub 2014 Feb 25.

Full free text: http://intensivo.sochipe.cl/subidos/catalogo3/intensivista%20in%20house%20mejora%20los%20outcomes%20PCCM%202014.pdf  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ocdcntx (talk • contribs) 15:34, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

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