Talk:I'm Not There/Archive 1

Unencyclopedic
This article currently boasts a very non-encyclopedic writing style. Lines like "Bob Dylan will provide all the non-original music for the film of course", for instance. Thus, the overhaul.--65.175.223.122 04:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm confused as to how Cate Blanchett will be playing Bob Dylan...


 * The same way what's her face played a man in that 90s movie. -24.92.43.153 19:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

For the first time I've red a page filled with true and analitical information. So which part of the story relates to which other part or is founded on. No interpretation, I#m satisfied!--Hum-ri (talk) 09:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree in the style dillemma, but I think, it#s a real vivid style and it#s not contradictious to write scientifically vivid.

Oren
Can anybody help me with Oren Moverman's article?-User:M.Naff

Segmented?
I wonder if this is going to be a segmented movie? Why? I went to wikipedia and found that the actors playing Bob Dylan will also play other characters.- User:M.Naff 9:23 pm, 5 April 2007 'The hours' for example deals with a theme, women liberation in changing times, and there is the author in or out, and the narrative perspective developes through the episodes. The dylan story transformes by the number 6! Colour or none, nature or drugs in, framing a person, a figure, an idol by asking for his substance, reveals not only the surface, but the loss in popularity.--Hum-ri (talk) 09:55, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think. it#s a so called "montage", but no crude one. The connection between the different segments is visable by real archimedic points or done by music.Therefore the story is chained up in an intelligent way, not pure action and logic. In a case is another case and a dream in, you may open one and slide to the other and go back to the end.Paradoxal dramaturgie, which depends on dylans music.

Comment moved from article
Hi Wikipedia: I would take out the Yahoo Link since the information on that page is so outdated.

I would suggest change this wording: Actors also officially signed on to star at present include Adrien Brody, David Cross, Charlotte Gainsbourg, Julianne Moore and Michelle Williams.

Uh no he didn't.

for:

Adrien Brody, David Cross, Charlotte Gainsbourg, Julianne Moore and Michelle Williams will also appear in this movie.

and finally I would update this sentence: It began filming in late July 2006 in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

for this sentence: Filming was done in Summer/Fall 2007. The movie is now in post-production. It is rumored that the movie will be shown at the International Film Festival of Toronto, Canada in September 2007. Theatrical release is expected to be on September 21, 2007.

(Note to Wikipedia: although I said "rumors", it is very likely. The only other option would be that it is presented in Venice, Italia first, but that's unlikely.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.200.176.51 (talk • contribs) 22:58, April 29, 2007

Blanchett as dylan?
Huh? Is that right? Why would she be playing a man? -albrozdude 06:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Have you seen this clip:?
 * She is playin g a trembling eel!--Hum-ri (talk) 10:14, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Bob Dylan 'iconic'
That's such a strange word to use about a person and I wonder what is really meant. Can anyone justify its use? Alpheus (talk) 10:13, 17 November 2007 (UTC)


 * see Pop icon--Mongreilf (talk) 16:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I'm just stuck in my ways, but I find "icon" overused (what's the qualification? Or is everyone an icon for 15 minutes?) not to mention annoying. When referring to, say, 20th century celebrities, I think no more than 10 or 20 people should be labeled "icons" (with 20 being a very generous maximum). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

isn't in t(h)e christinanic frame, but developes something new, in another system. Which one?!--Hum-ri (talk) 10:09, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * An Icon isn't meant by the adjetiv iconic. Grammar! No pillow! It#s an athetic discription. A word which relates to systems. For example the christianic iconographie, implies paradigmas of picturing, symbols, colours and god father.The directing of this film

Songs not on the soundtrack
Many songs were featured in the film but are not on the soundtrack. Does anyone have a list of these songs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.61.82.140 (talk) 00:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

The so called soundtrack album is a puzzling collection of covers but perhaps one should take the title at face value. The total playing time for the 2CDs is 2.5 hours and perhaps 1/10 is actually heard. Don't forget that film is n_o_t about Dylan's music even if it impossible without it.

1 Stuck inside Mobile Dylan 2 Nashville skyline Dylan 3 Moonshiner Dylan 4 Tombstone R Havens 5 If I had a hammer Trini Lopez 6 The times they are a changin M Jennings 7 The lonesome death of H Carroll M Jennings 8 Ill keep it with mine Dylan 9 Visions of Johanna Dylan 10 Cold Iron Bound T Verlaine 11 Fourth time around YoLatengo 12 I want you Dylan 13 Corrina Corrina Dylan 14 Blind Willie Mctell Dylan 15 When the ships come in M Franklin 16 Maggie's farm St Malkmus 17 Positively 4th str Dylan 18 Temporary like Achilles Dylan 19 Simple twist of fate Dylan 20 I wanna be your lover YoLa Tengo 21 Judes waltz Calexico 22 Il casanova di Fellini Nino Rota 23 Ballad of a thin man St Malkmus 24 All along the watctower Eddie Vedder 25 Billy1 Calexico 26 Man in the long black coat Dylan 27 On meore cup of coffee Dylan 28 High water Dylan 29 Ballad of hollis brown Iggy & Stooges 30 Going to acapulco Jim James& Calexico 31 Bunkhaus Calexico 32 Steppin stone Monkees 33 Cold Iron bound Dylan 34 Trouble in mind Dylan 35 Idiot wind Dylan 36 Pressing on J.Doe 37 I'm not there Dylan 38 Mr Tambourine Dylan 39 Like a rolling stone Dylan 40 Knocking on haeven's door Antony & Jacksons 41 I'm not there Sonic youth              al (talk) 10:42, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

release dates
this article is missing any info on when the movie might be released to a wider audience. Is such information out yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.117.59.17 (talk) 05:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Plot Summary?
Anyone game enough to attempt this? I saw the film last night, but think I'll have to watch it a second time to get a better understanding. phocks (talk) 02:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

agreed Artrush (talk) 22:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC) as the son of Billy the kid, always on the train run and already dead. Puh!--Hum-ri (talk) 10:22, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Starting from the end:_ having been a black boy, who wanted to be woody guthrie, bob should be a white actor, with a little family playing roles for the cinema, but he becomes only a singer, who provokes audiences, uses drugs, insults ladys and is lately being recognized

Move Soundtrack to its own page
Could someone more knowledgable than me move the soundtrack to its own page. I tried and the page got deleted saying I didn't move the page history etc and something about five authors, blah blah blah. Whatever. The thing is most soundtracks have their own page. Would someone move this it its own page please? berenlazarus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Berenlazarus (talk • contribs) 23:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

move. Uncontroversial, didn't need discussion. No reason was for provided for the original move in the first place and this is the obvious place for it. --kingboyk (talk) 15:54, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Requested move
I& → I'm Not There — This move requests deleting the full stop on the end of the title. I realise that the full stop is there in the film's on-screen title. And I realise the Internet Movie Database therefore includes a full stop. However, on Wikipedia our policy is to use the common name, rather than be excessively pendantic. It's always referred to in print without the full stop (and indeed on the poster). —Cop 663 (talk) 13:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support. Common name has no fullstop. Andrewa (talk) 00:19, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. Probably a typo.--Yamanbaiia(free hugs!) 00:23, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. In the spirit of MOS:TM, use standard English text formatting. -- Paul Erik (talk) (contribs) 05:39, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. The poster has no period, and it's not commonly known to have one! -Werideatdusk33 (talk) 06:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Support, especially since in the article we aren't currently using the period. It perhaps should open with
 * I'm Not There (or I'm Not There.) is a movie...
 * in order to show the alternate spelling. &mdash; brighterorange  (talk) 07:30, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

song during writing scene?
that song playing in the background while cate blanchett is writing a song on the typewriter... what is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.0.67.101 (talk) 21:31, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Heath Ledger
I daresay that Heath Ledger is not most famous for his portrayal of Jack Rollins but for his role in "Brokeback Mountain" which brought him an Oscar nomination. Or am I wrong here? --190.21.31.146 (talk) 06:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Unsure about the cast
It's obvious Charlotte Gainsbourg is a character portraying Suze Rotolo or at least partially a portrayal because of the shots with them walking in the street with Heath Ledger dressed in the EXACT same way that Dylan was on the cover of The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan and the two of them are holding each other the same way as well. Throw in the fact that the character portrayed is also an artist, no denying it. I think it should be added as a mix of the two women. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cdop (talk • contribs) 05:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Sonny character
Watching the film, I gather that the Sonny character represents Bob Neuwirth. This is merely conjecture, but I thought perhaps someone else would know for certain. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC) '''

About idols and leading figures
They are famous and fullfill their imagies, like dylan does for the beat generation and they disturbe. Or they destroy oneself. Haynes shows the open wound, he doesn't glorify anyone and there remains a question: Does freedom mean indipendence?--Hum-ri (talk) 10:35, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * To me this film appears not only like a trashy biographie, it leads to the degree of contamination, idols suffer from.

"Complete Synopsis"
The new synopsis has loads and loads of original research and unfounded analysis. Lots of subjective points are made about what certain scenes "imply", and conclusions are made that have never been suggested before by reviewers, critics, or the script itself. Examples: "Mr. Jones later gets a year book from Jude Quinn's high school years and his pictures looks somewhat similar to the persona of Jack Rollins, implying that all the personas are the same character," "Jude and Allen Ginsberg are later seen at the foot of a crucifix, "talking to Christ". This indicates the Dylan characters' discovery of Christianity, as did Dylan's persona of Jack Rollins/Pastor John." "Billy then has flashbacks of his past life of the Robbie Clark persona, when his marriage failed." "Billy takes off his mask and reveals himself, and Garrett recognizes him. This indicates that Garrett is a reincarnation of Keenan Jones." All of this is just a single interpretation, and many of the assertions which are taken as fact here are simply ridiculous. Especially the last one. 190.41.231.150 (talk) 21:43, 1 December 2008 (UTC)Anonymous coward.
 * I agree. The plot section (I've renamed it) violates the no original research policy and really needs to be cleaned up. 96T (talk) 22:43, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Repetitive synopsis
I count the word "later" used no less than 22 times(!) in the synopsis, while I'd argue that not a single one of them is necessary. Any other opinions? --77.185.9.208 (talk) 01:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Clean Up
I've started to re-write this article and add references. It's a deliberately playful biography of Dylan with fantasy elements. (Dylan was never an outlaw holed up in his cabin. This is a character based on images from The Basement Tapes and the fact that Dylan played a role in Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid.) The only statement the film makes (in caption at the beginning) is: "Inspired by the music and the many lives of Bob Dylan". Charlotte Gainsbourg plays Claire, a character who resembles Suze Rotolo (in the film, Ledger & Gainsbourg run romantically though the streets of New York, recreating the album cover photo of Dylan & Rotolo on The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan) but she is later trapped in a disintegrating marriage and acrimonious divorce from the Ledger character, resembling Dylan's first wife Sara. Just to emphasise we should not be literal-minded about this film, neither Suze Rotolo nor Sara Dylan were French, as the Gainsbourg character, Claire, is. And she's married to Robbie Clark, who is an actor!

This article must be consistent with WP:BLP policies. To casually write that a fictional character "represents" someone spells legal & editorial trouble. Mick gold (talk) 10:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Having re-written this article, and provided more detailed references, I'm removing warning about copy editing and lack of references. If anyone disagrees, please comment here. Mick gold (talk) 12:01, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Dylan's response?
I'm guessing the famously reticent Dylan hasn't commented on the film his life inspired. But if he has, please put it in the article. Thanks!


 * Dylan has made no comment. Haynes has talked about how Dylan was given DVD and he's awaiting feedback. But Dylan has said nothing. Mick gold (talk) 16:57, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * In the Rolling Stone interview, September 2012, Dylan has given his (favorable) opinion about the film; I've added that to the article. Mick gold (talk) 13:32, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Confusing part
From "Plot:"

Heath Ledger plays Robbie Clark, an actor who is starring in a biopic about the life of Jack Rollins (the folk singer played by Christian Bale) entitled Grain of Sand. (The film's title is a reference to the Dylan song "Every Grain of Sand"). The film relates how Robbie first met his wife Claire....

"The film" in bold refers to I'm Not There, but it at first appeared to me to be referring to Grain of Sand. I could fix this if I were clever enough to figure out a good way to make the distinction. :-P Help please! -AndromedaRoach (talk) 13:52, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Philosophical themes?
I've removed this section from article:


 * === Philosophical themes ===
 * Seven different characters play different types or moments of Dylan. This broken-to-pieces Dylan creates a notion of complex and multi-layered personality, what indeed helps the film to overcome the ordinary superficial representation of a human. A ‘normal’ film represents a human in certain time at a certain space hence cannot really penetrate into a person’s true identity. By deconstructing a successive single narrative this film produces seven of them. As a result this film is not trapped into a time and space issue; rather it creates an image of a whole, a life. Each narrative stands for each character and represents a different type of Dylan. The narratives are not inter-related, that is to say, each character stands on its own, and does not interact with another. And so, Haynes does not impose the notion that one of them is “more” Dylan then the other. In fact it seems, to the innocent viewer, that none of them is really Dylan: none of the characters hold the same name, the past or the future of Dylan, and so the actual Bob Dylan’s identity seems to be abolished in the film. (Ref )


 * The film, which portrays different portions of Bob Dylan’s life creates a distinct notion of identity, that which can be considered as fragmented yet successive. The concept of identity fragmentation has its roots in the post-modern era of thinking. Alasdair Macintyre a known post-modernist, claims in his essay “A Story Telling Animal” that the human life is a successive sequence of events, stories. Every story has a telos (an end), and a past. The identity formation will take place in the correlative necessity of continuity of narrative: “personal identity presupposed by the unity of the character which the unity of narrative requires” . Basically, personal identity is consecutive events which shape one’s own life and character. One can behold different characteristics; have a fragmented self, which is unified by one’s narrative.(Ref )

This is a long section, written in the form of a philosophical essay rather than an encyclopedic article. The second para refers to a book by Alasdair MacIntyre. The para is claiming that MacIntryre's work is relevant to this film, but MacIntyre's book contains no reference to I'm Not There. (This is not surprising because the book was published in 2003 before the film I'm Not There was made.) This is contrary to Wikipedia policy of no original research, which states: "Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not clearly advanced by the sources."

The first paragraph seems to paraphrase a work by Omer Shamir. No clue is given as to where this work was published. It is questionable whether Omer Shamir can be regarded as an important critical voice, or whether his work could be described as a reliable source. Mick gold (talk) 20:29, 12 May 2011 (UTC)