Talk:I Could Fall in Love

External links - Order of precedence
I found Order of precedence an odd title for the first table. The content didn't seem related to precedence among offices or awards. Consider using  which displays as Awards and achievements and seems more related to charting of songs instead of. Other headers are at Start Headers. SBaker43 (talk) 17:16, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you have any suggestions? Best, Jona  talk to me  19:05, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I changed the first table header in External links to  so you can see what I envisioned.  No other changes; if you don't think it's appropriate, feel free to revert the change.  Best wishes. SBaker43 (talk) 17:16, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That's fine but on other FA songs such as Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It), its acceptable to use "Order of precedence". Best, Jona  talk to me  22:07, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

GG-J's copy-editing of the article

 * Lead
 * " remarked upon the similarity to songs recorded by TLC, Brandy Norwood, and Celine Dion. " I've been thinking that its best to have the artists mentioned in alphabetical order. ✅
 * The first paragraph of the article is just too big but I guess you have plans for that =) ✅
 * "Fearing that "I Could Fall in Love" would sell more copies than the album itself, the recording was not released as a physical single. Therefore it was ineligible for the Hot 100 chart. " wouldn't it be better to merge this into one section? ✅
 * I am really impressed with the prose in the lead!
 * Even more now, I trust.
 * Made another change: "... murder]] by her friend and ex-employer Yolanda Saldivar, which happened several months earlier." -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 17:27, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * ... and another today: "Desperately, she tells him to walk away from her, realising that her emotions ..."
 * -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 14:03, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

''
 * Background and release
 * "fan base .[5]" no need for space here ;) ✅
 * "Chris Perez,who had" this too =) ✅
 * ".[11]He told" and this =) ✅
 * " "I Could Fall in Love" was released as the lead single for the Dreaming of You (1995)," I don't think "the" is necessary here. ✅

Overall I am extremely impressed with the prose of the article! I only read up to the Composition section since I see you last edited in this section and not further. But you have done a great job so far =) Best, Jona  talk to me  01:33, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that, Jona!
 * I shall attend to your points listed here.
 * Will check with you then, and – if to your satisfaction – would consider job done, don't you think?
 * Cheers! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 08:50, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No thank you for the c/e! Best, Jona  talk to me  18:10, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * All above attended to. Shall look over remainder of the article again, but suspect there is not a lot that I can do there .  All the best.  -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 15:27, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Reviews ... Huh! There was quite a lot to do there. Anyway, I have done what I can. What do you think?
 * Cheers! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 16:40, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't need to italicize a reviewer's comments such as this for an example, "John Secada-esque demeanor" you can look at Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It) as a guidance, its an FA.
 * ✅ (Gone!) I didn't mind ... Sincerely, -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (talk) 07:57, 22 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Recognition and accolades ... Changed copy here a lot, and the whole appearance. Hope you approve.
 * Cheers! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 17:06, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * R & A ... more copyediting ... sixth para. "This success enabled a breakthrough of various language barriers, particularly with regards to the English-speaking audience."  -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 16:17, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * This section does not need to be in list-format, its always best to use prose wherever possible. Best, Jona  talk to me  22:27, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay! Done that and a fair bit if more copy editing here.  Cheers!  -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (talk) 07:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)(More below, August 27.)


 * Chart performance ... "All done here ...
 * I hope." Sincerely,

-- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 12:14, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The one line sentence in that section is inconsistent with how the whole article is structured. It would be best to have at least 2-4 sentences per paragraph per section so it would be consistent. Other than this it looks great! Best, Jona  talk to me  12:44, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ but please see your talk page, Cheers! Gareth


 * Music video ... done that ... okay?
 * -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 19:04, 22 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The Lead (ultimate paragraph)
 * I have just gone back to copyediting the final two sentences in order to finish section with "I Could Fall in Love".
 * However, having looked at her article, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Rodriguez is she needed here?
 * Please give me your opinion! Cheers!  -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (talk) 08:40, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * What template are you talking about? Best, Jona  talk to me  12:05, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding: However, having looked at her article (Karen_Rodriguez's article) is she needed here?  The template  =
 * Sincerely -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (talk) 13:08, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Why would you need to add a fact template to that? Best, Jona  talk to me  17:23, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Because surely that it is someone's opinion. Whose? If kept in the section, it must be cited ... however ... I consider her presence to be of no significance, and that it should be struck. Sincerely -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (talk) 17:39, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe you are referring to "– the Rodriguez cover received a negative response from many music critics" did you read the critical reception of her cover? There are no positive reception from the media so that's why it says that music critics gave it an unfavorable reception. That's not my opinion lolz. Best, Jona  talk to me  17:44, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, so I shall remove the reference. Sincerely -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (talk) 17:51, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * BTW try to not include orish comments such as "it was obvious", that's not a good thing . Best, Jona  talk to me  18:12, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay✅


 * Recognition and accolades (returned to)
 * Reducing number of (too short) paragraphs + Rm one (of two) opening phrases each with exactly the same words)
 * -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:55, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks so are you done c/e the article? Best, Jona  talk to me  19:29, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No. Not unless you want me to stop now ...
 * Sincerely -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (talk) 09:35, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh okay, no was just wondering =) Jona  talk to me  15:27, 30 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Cultural impact
 * Started copy editing this section ... several changes to improve style and English.
 * Plus, changed two dates in wrong format!
 * Sincerely -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (talk) 09:50, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Covers
 * Completed. -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (talk) 13:05, 29 August 2012 (UTC)


 * More comments by AJona1992
 * Hope you are having a pleasant day today =) I just have one problem with the recent edit you made "Quite a while before..." is not very accurate and fails when?. The fact that Selena signed the recording agreement and hinted about the crossover in the same year, does not make it "quite a while before". To me it sounds a bit over exaggerated since this happened in the same year, so it would be best to say "Before" since we don't have a source that actually gives the date. Best, Jona  talk to me  22:49, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I thank you for explaining that – never had understood the time scale here and if it is in the same 12 mths., how does she manage to fit this in that timescale? "After reviewing Selena's recordings, Koppelman declined a crossover attempt, believing that she should first strengthen her fan base.[5] After releasing five Spanish-language albums, all achieving unprecedented milestones in the Latin music industry"
 * Cheers! -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (GG-J's Talk) 06:58, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, I'm only going on what the source tells me. It doesn't seem logical but hey anything is possible. BTW can you ping me when you're done so they can begin the peer review? Best, Jona  talk to me  16:15, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply this evening.
 * Think I should listen to the record now to check on the actual description that I have copy-edited ... then, providing there are no changes to that, I should be happy to say, "I have finished." -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (GG-J's Talk) 17:48, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

*gasp* you haven't heart it? lolz so how goes it? Best, Jona  talk to me  23:26, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ha ha! I thought that would throw you ... it' s good ... I like it very much.


 * Composition and lyrical interpretation
 * ... further copyediting tonight to this section.
 * If you approve these final changes, I consider that I have achieved my goal ... ✅
 * -- Gareth Griffith-Jones (GG-J's Talk) 23:41, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yea it did (shocker!) lolz, but am glad you like it =). Alright that's fine, I will be active today so once you have finished I will notify the two reviewers that you have completed the copy-editing. Thanks, Jona  talk to me  23:47, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have checked it as "Done" over on WP:GOCE
 * Btw What time zone are you on? It is just coming up to 01:00 hrs. here in the UK  -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (GG-J's Talk) 23:58, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright I notified the reviewers. I am in Eastern Standard Time UTC−05:00 (EST) zone. Best, Jona  talk to me  00:01, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well in that case I guess you're not up yet. Perhaps I should copy-edit your posting ... "heart" --> "heard" ... just joking!
 * On a serious note, I have enjoyed working on this article. I wish you the best of luck with it.  Sincerely,  -- Gareth Griffith-Jones  (GG-J's Talk) 09:58, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha I must have been sleepy when I wrote that lolz. Well it was a pleasure working with you and I also wish the best for you in your future endeavours on Wikipedia . Best, Jona  talk to me  15:44, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Karen Rodriguez' cover and reviews
I don't think removing all mention of her cover of the song should have been removed, maybe I didn't read your comment very carefully lolz =) Also maybe adding that it was given unfavorable reviews should also be added back (not the big chuck of it). So basically, "Season 10 American Idol participant Karen Rodriguez performed "I Could Fall in Love" during the "top 13" episode, and was given unfavorable reviews by critics." Best, Jona  talk to me  15:36, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Review
Some comments on the article from Noleander:
 * " the track is about the narrator's fear of rejection on a guy she ." - the word 'guy' is slangy; also, the "on a" is not proper grammar.  Maybe " .. fear of rejection by a man she .."
 * ✅ Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * "Critics praising the song for .." - Praised
 * ✅ Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * "However, it failed to acquire any certifications, despite ." - remove word "However".  Link to Music recording sales certification
 * ✅ Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * past vs present tense: " the accompanying music video features ." - most of lead is in past tense, this sentence is present.  Change to "featured".
 * ✅ Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Space: .... strikingly anonymous. "   - eliminate space between period and quote mark.
 * ❌ the separation is made automatically from Template:Quote. Something that can't be done manually. Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * no brackets - "what she wants [forever enduring love] which is universally impossible." -brackets should only be used in rare situations, and this is not one of them.  Use parentheses, or dashes ndash.
 * ✅ Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Grammar: "EMI Latin's Sigerson feared that "I Could Fall in Love" might sell more copies than the album itself, he decided not to issue the single as a commercial release." - Sentence needs to start with the word "Because.." as in "Because Sigerson feared ..." to connect to the ".. he decided"
 * ✅ Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Tense: "Directed by Hector Galan, the accompanying music video features a montage of..." - use past tense.
 * ✅ Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Ugly footnotes: ".. Top 40 radio stations,[23][92][93]."  -having 3 or more footnotes adjacent is ugly. Consider packaging them into a single footnote using the WP:CITEBUNDLE method.   Ditto for wherever there are 3 or more footnotes adjacent like that.
 * ❌ this was mentioned before by another reviewer who suggested that there should be at least 2-3 refs here because its an extraordinary claim which would need further sources. Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Double quotes: a footnote contains double quotes:  ""While her ... pop artist.""


 * More double quotes: "Thomas, Keith: "I remember her grinning ear to ear saying "I'll see you guys in two weeks!", and she was coming back to do the second song. So I was working on the song, and I walked out of the hallway and my business manager told me Selena is dead.""
 * Look for all of these: "Burr, Ramiro: "The weakest track is "I Could Fall in Love," which was also the first single. This slow shuffle tune suffers from overly simplistic and repetitive lyrics.""
 * Avoid words "however" and "but" - "However, Rodriguez' Selena-esque dress ...". That entire sentence could probably be deleted.
 * ✅ Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Confusing: "Cover versions of the song include recordings by Jennifer Lopez, Gloria Estefan, Lisa Leuschner, Karen Rodriguez, Solange Knowles and Ali-Ollie Woodson – other artists, who include Keke Palmer and Snooki, used their YouTube accounts to cover "I Could Fall in Love", while the latter lip-sync to the track." - I would put a period after "...Woodson".   Text after that should probably be deleted from the Lead.
 * ✅ Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

End Noleander comments. --Noleander (talk) 22:22, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Conclusion: it is a fine article, very near FA status.  After fixing the above, you could probably take it to WP:FAC ... be warned that the reviewers are very strict and critical.
 * Thanks for your review I have completed most of your points. Thanks again, Jona  talk to me  14:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Copy edit, June 2013
For things I need help with during this copy edit. Please thread discussion by-the-bullet, RFC style. --Stfg (talk) 12:22, 10 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Background and release : "Because Thomas was unable to add any more vocals to a new song, "I Could Fall in Love", he performed an a cappella version to assist their understanding." Let's fix this sentence. I'm reading the source (FN9) and am not quite sure what he means by "put the vocals on the song". Does it mean write down the words and tune? Is the source saying that Thomas hadn't written them down so he showed them it just by singing it? Or is it something else? (By the way, I don't read the source as saying that he sang it a cappella.) --Stfg (talk) 12:22, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The demo had no vocals only instrumentals and so Thomas sang a few lines of the song for Selena and her bother. Hope that make sense, jona  talk to me  18:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's clear, thanks. I've recast the sentence. --Stfg (talk) 12:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Composition and lyrics : "Selena uses a sensual soprano voice, giving more depth to her emotional range.[26]" is a bit mushy, and I don't think the source really supports it. Shall we delete this sentence? --Stfg (talk) 13:09, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yea you can delete it. jona  talk to me  18:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. --Stfg (talk) 12:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Composition and lyrics : "According to the sheet music published at Musicnotes.com by EMI Music Publishing, "I Could Fall in Love" is written in the key of C minor and played in a moderate groove of 157 beats per minute." Actually, the "look inside" preview has a key signature of 4 sharps (E major or C# minor. It's definitely E major here -- but this would count as WP:OR). It does say "in a moderate groove" but there is no mention of 157 bpm. The chord sequences are completely wrong too. You need to chop this back or find a better source here. --Stfg (talk) 13:50, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I will begin searching for additional sources. jona  talk to me  18:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you remove the claims that are not supported by the ref and fix the cord progression per source? Thanks, jona  talk to me  14:29, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * That would mean removing everything except the moderate groove. Are you sure you want that? In the preview I can only see the opening page, consisting of the 16-measure intro and just the first measure of the song, so I can't give you the chords for the verses and chorus. The chords for the intro are: . I'm not sure if that helps (?) (For what it's worth, I've just listened to the official video on YouTube, and yes, it's in E major on a vocal range F#3–A. This is WP:OR, unfortunately). Please let me know how you'd like to handle this. --Stfg (talk) 15:29, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The recording's key and its tempo are not orish and has been included in various FA song articles. I was talking about the bpm claim and I have the music sheet and can provide you the information, however, I am no expert in music sheets maybe you can tell me where I could find that information? Best, jona  talk to me  18:11, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * They aren't OR in themselves, but getting them by listening to the video is. Anyway, I've found a slightly different version on musicroom.com, which does give the key, vocal range and tempo (as h=78, which is the same as 156 bpm). I still only get the page-1 preview, so I can't extract the chord sequences. If you have the full sheet music, you can get them from the letters next to the guitar fingering diagrams -- you can see how I did it if you compare the sequence I gave above with what you see in the first 16 measures of the sheet music. But I suggest you don't bother, as there are stumbling blocks in this procedure, and I don't think the chord sequence is essential. Nobody is going to play it from an encyclopeida article anyway, and it isn't interesting of itself. --Stfg (talk) 19:29, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yea I have the music sheet but I will go with your judgement and not include it. Thanks, jona  talk to me  19:53, 11 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Chart performance : This is the only mention of Sigerson. Who is he? --Stfg (talk) 16:21, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * In this source from Billboard his full name is Davitt Sigerson who is the president and CEO of EMI Records. jona  talk to me  18:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've added an explanation. --Stfg (talk) 12:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Music video : "the accompanying music video" -- did it accompany the song or the album? --Stfg (talk) 16:54, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The song. jona  talk to me  18:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Included that. --Stfg (talk) 12:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Cultural impact : 1st sentence: I'm not clear what "well received by critics" is adding. Haven't we already covered this enough in the Reviews section? --Stfg (talk) 17:23, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The fact that it dominated the Top 40 radios was received positively by critics. jona  talk to me  18:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, OK, I've clarified that in the article. But the radio stations will play what people ask for, won't they? If so, this is like saying that the critics are giving or witholding approval of the public's taste. --Stfg (talk) 12:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Covers : Please could you confirm that Ali-Ollie Woodson sang it together with Ivy Violan on an album of Ivy's called Ivy Silver Series? The ref (currently FN114) is subs-only, and when I try to find information about this on Google, Google goes strange. --Stfg (talk) 18:19, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not a duet they both recorded the song on their own albums. jona  talk to me  18:34, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've clarified that. --Stfg (talk) 12:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Covers again: actually, looking at that whole middle paragraph, are you sure you want to mention the amateur hacks on YouTube and American Idol? I think most of it is non-notable. --Stfg (talk) 18:28, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Middle paragraph of Covers section
I don't think all of this is notable, and it's horrible to be forced to cite to YouTube. Here's the paragraph, showing what I'd like to remove:


 * American actress and singer Keke Palmer used her YouTube account to cover an acoustic version of "I Could Fall in Love".[112] American R&B singer Ali-Ollie Woodson performed the song on her album Love At the Same Time, and Ivy Violan recorded it for her album Ivy Silver Series.[113] In addition there were Blake Cardenas' debut effort Born Ready,[114] Season three American Idol contestant Lisa Leuschner in Reality,[115] and American reality television participant Snooki lip-synced the song on her YouTube account.[116] In Kumbia Kings' third compilation album Duetos (2005), Selena's brother A.B. Quintanilla III recorded "I Could Fall in Love" as a Spanish/English duet with Selena.[117] In the album Familia RMM Recordando a Selena recorded by various artists in 1996, Los Jovenes Del Barrio recorded a cover of "I Could Fall in Love".[118] Season 10 American Idol contestant Karen Rodriguez performed "I Could Fall in Love" during the "top 13" episode, and was given unfavorable reviews by critics, who noted that the song was too powerful for Rodriguez to grasp,[119][120] while Katie Stevens, an American Idol alumni, wrote to The Hollywood Reporter believing that the judges on the show were "too hard on her" and while doing so, named Rodriguez as the "new Selena".[121]

I haven't copy edited the struck parts yet. If you want to keep them in, I'll do that tomorrow. --Stfg (talk) 19:06, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The ones I disagree in removing are the American Idol covers, her brother's duet version and Los Jovenes' cover. The rest could be deleted from this paragraph. What do you think? Best, jona  talk to me  14:29, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think that's fine. I'm going out for a while. Please would you edit it to remove the ones you don't want and include the ones you do. Then I'll copy edit that paragraph afterwards. Cheers till later, --Stfg (talk) 15:29, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright ✅. Best, jona  talk to me  18:11, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thanks. It's fine, and I've copy edited it. I think we're done now, aren't we? --Stfg (talk) 19:29, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for taking on this article! I left you a barnstar. Best, jona  talk to me  19:53, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

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