Talk:Ian Gillan/Archive 1

Blue Dragon
Should a note that Ian did the track Eternity for Blue Dragon on the XBOX 360 be added to the discography? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.36.208.93 (talk) 07:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

Band members
In para 5, the article states: "Tony Iomi, Jeff Healey, Joe Satriani, as well as Jon Lord, Roger Glover, Ian Paice, Don Airey and Steve Morse (all of whom are either current or former members of Deep Purple) are featured on this CD and DVD". I don't think that Tony Iomi or Jeff Healey were ever in Deep Purple. Their respective Wikipedia pages makes no mention. Nor are they listed on the Deep Purple page. 84.130.103.231 13:08, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It is a badly worded sentence, agreed - it is referring to those artists mentioned after the phrase "...as well as..." Well spotted, and I will alter the article to more accurately inform the reader. Devious Viper 09:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Personal life - home
Pretty sure Ian still keeps a home in Devon/Dorset border he did a few years back (http://archive.thisisdorset.net/2004/5/28/66650.html) and I read in a recent interview how he wouldn't be back home in Devon until May 2007 - anyone have newer info? --C Hawke 10:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Copyright issues
It was claimed in an earlier edit today that this was copied from http://www.netglimse.com/celebs/pages/ian_gillan/index.shtml/ someone else reverted it (rightly imho). I just had a look at the very 1st 2 sentences and you can clearly se a natural evolution in the entry here regarding his time with Black Sabbath. Initially saying 2 years, then "and for his two-year stint in Black Sabbath" then finally in 2007 the "During his career Gillan had a year-long stint" which is common on both entries. The one here, to my mind, shows a clear evolution and tweaking. --C Hawke (talk) 12:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * of course, if that other site has copied this one, it cannot be used as a cite for his vocal range (as it is now) as this is circular referencing.--C Hawke (talk) 12:50, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Vocal range
I think he has lost most of his vocal range. Watch this

Rather irrelevant, and no, he hasn't. He can still get down to E2, and he's gone as high as A5 in recent times. At most he's lost a quarter of an octave on the upper end.

Judging from studio records his range is something like D2-B5. The D2 is from No more cane on the brazos, the B5 is from Fighting Man. On his site he claims that he had reached the soprano C(C6) on a good night - it isn't so hard to believe since it's only a semitone higher that the recorded B5. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.120.240.251 (talk) 23:43, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

"In his prime he possessed a very wide vocal range, extending from the E2 to the G above soprano high C, or C6."

I'd like to know what songs and/or performances these come from, because as far as I can tell, he's only gone as far up as the B bellow C6 in falsetto. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sherick (talk • contribs) 20:51, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

His lowest note is a D2 in No more cane in the Brazoos as far as I know, his highes on any official record is a B5, the last two screams of fighting man or some live performaces of strange kind of woman, if anybody hears something higher, please comment before writing some something like a G6 which he never got close to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.17.178.201 (talk) 22:59, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The "voice type" field in the musical artist infobox template is intended for classical vocalists. This position is supported by Voice type and Voice classification in non-classical music.  In the rare instance when a reliable source exists to support a voice type for a non-classical vocalist (i.e. Maria Carey) the source must be provided for inclusion in the infobox. I will revert the entry in this field for this page, if you disagree please comment at the talk page for the musical artist infobox. The above comments and the information in the infobox may be true but is not verifiable, YouTube is not a verifiable source. J04n(talk page) 12:07, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Genre in infobox
It's a minor-ish point but Ian isn't and never was a heavy metal vocalist, rather he's a rock vocalist (possibly even a heavy rock one). Of this fact I am certain. I did change this but it got changed back. I thought I'd mention it here as tit for tat editing is pointless.

Among musicians, the distinction between hard rock and heavy metal is not a minor one. Hard rock still shows its origin in blues while in contrast heavy metal has no such origins. Though some of Ian Gillan's music is touched by folk and jazz, by and large, his music, whether in Deep Purple or in his own band, "Gillan," is indeed unmistakably hard rock. Jeff Mincey (talk) 21:53, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, in the seventies (Deep Purple's heyday) there was no distinction between hard rock and heavy metal. Bands like Deep Purple, Blue Oyster Cult, and even The Who were classified as heavy metal. The distinction really was made around the time Metallica and Bon Jovi were on the rise, since it was clear the same genre couldn't have both of them. Hondo77 (talk) 23:00, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh... WHAT?! You must be joking. Bon Jovi, metal? Dude, what have you been smoking? He was glam, at best. And, you're saying that the Who were no different from Black Sabbath? A reviewer called Sabbath heavy metal as early as 1973. The Who is just rock n roll. 68.211.207.6 (talk) 19:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Read what I wrote again. Does anybody consider Deep Purple heavy metal today?  I doubt it--they're more hard rock by today's standards but they were definitely metal back in the day.  Were you around back then?  As for Bon Jovi, again, back then they were considered heavy metal by the mainstream.  We're talking the mid-eighties here, remember.  Slippery When Wet came out just a few months before Reign in Blood.  Things were different twenty and thirty years ago.  Does that mean The Who are the same as Black Sabbath?  No more than Metallica being the same as Dimmu Borgir, yet they're both metal. Hondo77 (talk) 22:20, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's quite possible that in its earliest usage, the term "heavy metal" was meant as a synonym of its predecessor, "hard rock." But quickly the terms began to diverge in meaning. Heavy metal came to characterize rock music marked largely by power cords and sheer volume, while hard rock maintained its roots in the original "rock and roll" and blues, albeit with a much harder edge. So today, to describe the music of Gillan and Deep Purple as "metal" is misleading if not inaccurate outright. Jeff Mincey (talk) 16:02, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think a problem here is that Deep Purple is undeniable important in the formation of what became heavy metal, and they have some pure heavy metal songs from back in the day or and more recently, but largely their output is hard rock. (This is why I think it's questionable to put any band into a single genre). Luminifer (talk) 16:33, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

What do the sources say?--Alf melmac 17:04, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ian Gillan did sing for Black Sabbath, so I think it's hard to argue that he has not been a heavy metal vocalist. Luminifer (talk) 17:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree with Luminifer. He was the vocalist for the Black Sabbath album Born Again which every source calls heavy metal, here's one link. For someone with such a long and varried career as Mr Gillan it is certainly appropriate to include >1 genre. Luminifer makes the point that it is questionable to put a band into a single genre, it is more difficult for an individual who has been in several bands. J04n(talk page) 18:11, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Voice type-copyright violation
I believe that the YouTube references that have been recently added are a WP:COPYVIO and need to be immediately removed. I also believe that the interpretation of them constitute WP:OR. I would appreciate feedback on this so a final consensus can be reached. I similar issue is also occuring at Ozzy Osbourne and Ronnie James Dio. J04n(talk page) 21:48, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Emphasis
I think the bulk of Gillan's contribution to popular music was made in the short period of Deep Purple MkII. I was surprised that in the rather extensive writeup, this whole period is covered in just one and a half lines: "Gillan was a member of Deep Purple from 1969 through to 1973, appearing on such now-classic Deep Purple albums as In Rock, Fireball, Machine Head, Made In Japan and Who Do We Think We Are." It seems that the article would be improved if there were a bit more emphasis on this period, and what was distinctive about his work that made the DP MkII period so important.

In general, Wikipedia entries on old rock stars seem a bit heavy on the spats with former band members and very recent but un-notable stage appearances. Don't forget what made them famous! Leave the trivia to the fan sites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phytism (talk • contribs) 21:24, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Opinionated
Who exactly considers Ian Gillan to be one of the 'foremost' rock vocalists. Also, where is the evidence of him introducing the vocal belting technique to music? It's also an opinion that he was able to move from one range to another 'effortlessly' with 'fluid' movement.


 * Me. Hondo77 (talk) 23:00, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I have had a section describing his stage mannerisms and other activities, in which I have referred to a concert I was at, and many live DVDs, which are commercially available - deleted twice.

Consistency is required from whoever keeps editing this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TomGreen (talk) 15:51, 26 September 2006 (UTC).


 * Why do most Wikipedia articles about hard rock and heavy metal bands and musicians read as if they were written from the point of view of the artist's biggest fan rather than a neutral and encyclopedic point of view? How in the name of all that's holy can you include such a blatantly opinionated statement like "Ian Gillan is considered the greatest vocalist of all time" or something to that effect, and with no citations whatsoever? And then have that statement based primarily on his range and technique, as if that is the only criteria anyone could possibly have for a great vocalist? And why are all these hard rock/heavy metal articles allowed to get away with such awful grammar, hyperbolic statements, and barely literate sentence structure? What the hell is the "belting" vocal technique, and where did you find out that he "invented" it? If you have some insight into this, can you please create an article on the "belting" technique, because I'd like to know exactly what the hell it is. And I thought we were in the 21st century, not the 21th! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.153.46.146 (talk) 00:24, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
Can't we get pictures of Ian Gillan during his heyday in the early 70's, or when he was with Episode Six or perhaps even as a kid, instead of strictly elderly shots? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Engines On (talk • contribs) 08:31, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

added the tag simply as a reminder to myself to come back and fix this one up a little, add a little more detail and find some citations(right now there's only 1). Anger22 13:59, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Relevancy and private life
Do we really need to know this : "In 2004, he was banned from driving for 16 months and fined £500 for being twice over the legal alcohol limit.[15][16]" ?

This is supposed to be an encyclopedia not a tabloïd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ASDLR (talk • contribs) 14:00, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

A6 on lead
I've had a look for sources on this, but the only things I can find are this and this, where in the latter source somebody says he can't. Of course, a Facebook page and a Youtube comments section are about as reliable as my postman turning up consistently every morning at bang on 8:30am (ie: not very). -- Ritchie333 (talk)  (cont)   09:38, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Resubmit GA review
Since the editor who disrupted this has been blocked and has indicate he won't be contributing to the article, I'm happy to put this back up to GA review, having made a few improvements myself.

Regarding the discography, I've retained contemporary studio and charting live albums that were released roughly around the time they were recorded. So, Made in Japan is there, because it charted and is highly regarded by fans, but not any of the numerous live albums he's done in the last 20 years, which are, to be fair, a bit less mainstream. Ritchie333 (talk)  (cont)   11:38, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

This article passes as a Wikipedia Good Article
(I am "repeating" this here for when the review is no longer transcluded.) This article passes as a Wikipedia Good Article. Congratulations and nice work! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 02:43, 1 February 2013 (UTC) Reviewer

Chapters
Good job on the article, but why chapters and not pages when using an inline citation? GeezerB (talk) 18:46, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It was the first article I went through and mined an entire book source, but when I came back to my notes, I found I'd only listed the chapters. To put actual pages would involve digging the book out of my loft (again), finding the page numbers, and allocating them to each reference. When GA reviewing, we decided that was too much work and not necessary to pass the article. Ritchie333  (talk)  (cont)   19:49, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Grammar problems
Could and  explain what they mean by "problematic grammar" changes? The latter edit in particular looks to be another rehash of this debate. Ritchie333 (talk)  (cont)   15:49, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Early life
Early life suggests that one of his earliest memories is his mother playing Blue Rondo Ala Turk on Piano. In fact this is a 1959 Dave Brubeck piece, so Gillan would have been 14 when it first appeared, so I don't believe this could count as an earliest memory. Far more likely that the piano piece being played by his mother was Rondo Alla Turca from Mozart Sonata 11 in A - this is a very typically favoured piano tune.194.74.0.10 (talk) 08:02, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Why is there no mention of Jesus Christ Superstar?
Why is there no mention of Jesus Christ Superstar? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.229.61 (talk) 08:40, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * What do you see in the fourth paragraph of the sub-section "Deep Purple, 1969–73"? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  08:42, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

And there it is! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.229.61 (talk) 08:53, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

GA problems
This was, I think, the first ever article I made a concerted effort to improve to GA status, and it shows.

There are unsourced paragraphs, and citations to questionable sources like The Sun (United Kingdom) which absolutely should not be used in a BLP. The whole thing needs some serious spit and polish, as I don't think it currently meets the GA criteria.

I'll dig out my original sources and see what can be done, but if I'm unsuccessful, I think this will have to go to GAR. Ritchie333 (talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  13:22, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140901130712/http://www.rockpages.gr/detailspage.aspx?id=4459&type=1&lang=EN to http://www.rockpages.gr/detailspage.aspx?id=4459&type=1&lang=EN
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140918030002/http://www.rockpages.gr/detailspage.aspx?id=756&type=1&lang=EN to http://www.rockpages.gr/detailspage.aspx?id=756&type=1&lang=EN
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081022044109/http://www.rockpages.gr/detailspage.aspx?id=1453&type=1&lang=EN to http://www.rockpages.gr/detailspage.aspx?id=1453&type=1&lang=EN

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Ian Gillan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121008224722/http://www.rockpages.gr/detailspage.aspx?id=5707&type=1&lang=EN to http://www.rockpages.gr/detailspage.aspx?id=5707&type=1&lang=EN
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110823012348/http://www.rogerglover.com/writings/63-doesnt-time-fly.html to http://www.rogerglover.com/writings/63-doesnt-time-fly.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130521191720/http://www.demonmusicgroup.co.uk/Product.aspx?ProductID=4841 to http://www.demonmusicgroup.co.uk/Product.aspx?ProductID=4841
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090326034623/http://www.rockpages.gr/detailspage.aspx?id=2209&type=10&lang=EN to http://www.rockpages.gr/detailspage.aspx?id=2209&type=10&lang=EN

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Gillan's reaction to this article
In a video on YouTube, Gillan is scathing about the content of this article.

He says the "same class as Pete Townshend" statement, for example, though sourced to Gillan's own biography, is false. Can someone with a copy of that book provide the exact wording, please? And check the other disputed claims? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:24, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * This was the first serious improvement I made to an article about six years ago; although it passed GA back then, I haven't kept as close an eye on it as I would have liked, and consequently it has deteriorated somewhat. Indeed, as you can see two threads above this one, last year I was concerned about the quality and factual accuracy and was contemplating sending it to GAR.
 * Anyway, I have the book sources and have gone through the article, taking out anything that is not obviously verifiable to them. I have also taken out a bunch of unsourced content and trimmed some bits I don't think are particularly suitable for a BLP anyway. Gillan's biography does say he went to Acton County Grammar, and he was there at the same time as Pete Townshend (although the source does not specifically say that), but there is no mention anywhere that they actually knew each other. The whole section on "relationship with Blackmore" is tabloidesque rubbish and I have thrown it out, replacing it with a more reasonable single sentence saying the pair are not at loggerheads with each other and, well, life is too short for that. The stuff about children is, as Gillan says, "bollocks", and without a good source it violates WP:BLP. Note - the fixes mean the text is VERIFIABLE to a source, not that it is TRUE, unfortunately without any other sources to hand, that's about all I can manage for now. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  13:20, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It seems the video is one of a series. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:13, 19 August 2018 (UTC)